FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[retagent]

You're making it a lot harder to earn pool C bids if you add MAC or Scholastica and play 9 conference games.    If you really wanted to fix the MIAC football scheduling and earn more pool C bids you'd kick out Hamline and play 3 non-conference games as the IIAC, WIAC and CCIW do.

The St. Thomas Academy situation is too funny.  The South Suburban schools that ran away from Eden Prairie/Wayzata because they feared the long travel are out of excuses and the league will probably just place the Cadets back in the classic suburban.  While college conferences look to get stronger, these Minnesota high school conferences do everything in their power to become weaker.
[/quote]

This might be the best answer. The WIAC, and to some extent, the IIAC has trouble finding that 3rd Non-Con game, which leads to such silliness as one WIAC team playing another WIAC team in a "Non-conference" game. The geographic proximity could be a boon to ratcheting up the inter state rivalries.

[faunch]

They were good enough to be competitive in the MIAC last year, but a move back to the MIAC would either take away a non-conference game or you wouldn't have a full round-robin.

Our front-page story has more, including official MIAC reaction and a word from the comissioner as to how they might fix that scheduling issue.

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2013/04/macalester-to-join-midwest-conference

Could the MIAC just force the scots to choose either the MIAC or MWC in all sports? If the Scots were to leave or get booted - doesn't it makes sense to add a team like St. Scholastica which is a strong academic school and would be competitive athletically!

I am not an expert in the MIAC bylaws but I would think the conference could if it had the votes and felt it was in the MIAC's best interest.

If the Classic Suburban can boot STA the MIAC should be able to boot MAC!

AO- for years, the MIAC played 9 conference games and 1 non-conference. Then Mac pulled out of football, forcing the others to find a non-conference game to replace them. It hasnt always been easy to do.

Faunch- you & I rarely agree, but this is on topic it sounds like we are 100% in sync. Call SI and report a Sign of the Apocolypse 

"You're just absolutely right and I'm absolutely wrong?  It must be nice to always believe you know better.  To think you're always the smartest person in the room." 

Talk about a Sign of the Apocalypse....I think it's about to get a lot more expensive to play football.  What impact will this have on the youth and high school level?  How many schools might drop programs because they're concerned about being sued?
Damn lawyers....can't trust any of them! 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/15/lawyer-says-riddell-is-in-very-serious-trouble-after-lawsuit/

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

As a matter of clarification, Augsburg DOES have a women's swim team but DOES NOT have a men's Swim team. Also, Augsburg not have a men's tennis team. Hamline does not field a men's golf team. Bethel & Mac do not field men's hockey
teams. Bethel and Concordia also do not have a men's swim team. 

(I trust this clarifcation will appease my emailer on this topic and relieve him of his conniptions on the matter).   

[OzJohnnie]

[rant]

The issue is not whether a school runs a full suite of sports, but that Mac runs some sports in one league and one sport in another league.  And the sport it runs "renegade" is THE sport.  Football is the college sport, then basketball and probably baseball.  The issue is that Mac treats the other schools in the MIAC with a distinct lack if respect, sort of like disposable friends that can be called for a night out when needed but ignored when they are inconvenient or embarrassing to Mac's classier friends.  Mac is a taker from the MIAC and not a giver.  Even, gasp, UST cannot have that low claim made against it.  For all their faults (and there are many) UST does not, and can be trusted to never, treat the schools in the MIAC with the same degree of contempt and selfishness that Mac has demonstrated with this narcissistic decision.

[/rant]

[Mr. Ypsi]

Many (most?) conferences have a 'core' set of sports that a school must participate in to be a member.  I can't seem to find the list for the CCIW, but football is certainly one of them (otherwise, North Park might have abandoned the sport, not having won a conference game this millenium; they do however have 5 of the CCIW's 6 national titles in men's basketball).  (Perhaps uniquely, in the IIAC, one of them is wrestling - since IWU doesn't sponsor that sport, I'm glad the CCIW doesn't have that one!)

I take it the MIAC is one of the conferences without a core set of sports?

[Pat Coleman]

Many (most?) conferences have a 'core' set of sports that a school must participate in to be a member.  I can't seem to find the list for the CCIW, but football is certainly one of them (otherwise, North Park might have abandoned the sport, not having won a conference game this millenium; they do however have 5 of the CCIW's 6 national titles in men's basketball).  (Perhaps uniquely, in the IIAC, one of them is wrestling - since IWU doesn't sponsor that sport, I'm glad the CCIW doesn't have that one!)

I take it the MIAC is one of the conferences without a core set of sports?

I actually think the concept of "core sports" is fairly limited. Considering St. Mary's doesn't have football and hasn't for decades, clearly that is not a consideration in the MIAC.

There are a lot of conferences who have a school without football. Have to be, considering almost 200 schools don't have the sport.

[DBQ1965]

Why hasn't someone suggested that Mac teams playing in the MIAC all be required to wear a scarlet letter?

[DuffMan]

(Perhaps uniquely, in the IIAC, one of them is wrestling - since IWU doesn't sponsor that sport, I'm glad the CCIW doesn't have that one!)

I would expect nothing less in Iowa!  Disappointingly, wrestling is no longer a "MIAC sport".  It used to be a strong wrestling conference (my old man was a MIAC champ in 1973!).  There are some strong wrestling teams in the MIAC, but only SJU, Augsburg, Concordia, and St. Olaf still field teams.

[AO]

(Perhaps uniquely, in the IIAC, one of them is wrestling - since IWU doesn't sponsor that sport, I'm glad the CCIW doesn't have that one!)

I would expect nothing less in Iowa!  Disappointingly, wrestling is no longer a "MIAC sport".  It used to be a strong wrestling conference (my old man was a MIAC champ in 1973!).  There are some strong wrestling teams in the MIAC, but only SJU, Augsburg, Concordia, and St. Olaf still field teams.

How many conferences do sponsor Wrestling?  3?  Participation in wrestling at Minnesota high schools seems pretty strong, or maybe it just seems that way as they invite 24 teams and what seems like 1000 wrestlers for the state tournament.  If you didn't get an invite to that tournament, it was lost in the mail.

There's probably 100 MIAC football players who wrestled in high school.  Did title IX bring the programs down?

[DuffMan]

AO, just because you don't understand and/or appreciate a sport doesn't make it irrelevant.  Wrestling has strong, yet regional, support.  States like Iowa, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Oklahoma, etc are hotbeds for wrestling.

For the record, there are 14 weight classes in high school wrestling, 3 classes in the MN system, and 16 wrestlers qualify for the state tournament at each weight class.  14 x 3 x 16 = 672 wrestlers.  Even by your Northwestern College math, 672 is < 1000.

And I have a feeling that quite a few more than 100 MIAC football players in any given year were high school wrestlers.  We had quite a few on the SJU teams I was on.  There were and are several guys that actually did/do both at SJU.

I'm still at a loss as to why you even chime in here.  MIAC envy?

[AO]

AO, just because you don't understand and/or appreciate a sport doesn't make it irrelevant.  Wrestling has strong, yet regional, support.  States like Iowa, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Oklahoma, etc are hotbeds for wrestling.

For the record, there are 14 weight classes in high school wrestling, 3 classes in the MN system, and 16 wrestlers qualify for the state tournament at each weight class.  14 x 3 x 16 = 672 wrestlers.  Even by your Northwestern College math, 672 is < 1000.

And I have a feeling that quite a few more than 100 MIAC football players in any given year were high school wrestlers.  We had quite a few on the SJU teams I was on.  There were and are several guys that actually did/do both at SJU.

I'm still at a loss as to why you even chime in here.  MIAC envy?

I appreciate wrestling.  I think you may have mistook my tone.  I don't consider it to be irrelevant, just pointing out the seemingly large difference between high school and college participation in Wrestling.  I'll google the conference answer myself---according to the 2010 d3 wrestling manual there are 4 conferences that sponsor wrestling - Centennial, Iowa, Ohio and Wisconsin.  There are 3 other wrestling only conferences. 

I might have you beat on the number of wrestlers at the state tournament, you didn't include the wrestlers only there for the team competition.  24*19-duplicates=pretty close to 1,000.    Are kids from small schools really that much weaker than big school kids?  Why are we unable to have a single class individual tournament?

-yes, a lot of MIAC envy.

[DuffMan]

I don't consider it to be irrelevant, just pointing out the seemingly large difference between high school and college participation in Wrestling.

I think several factors could be at play.  #1) College wrestling is a huge time commitment.  One of the main reasons I gave up on the idea of wrestling in college was due to the overlap between football and wrestling seasons.  You really need a passion for wrestling to stick with it.  And who wants to cut weight when there are parties to go to?    #2) College wrestling is ultra-competitive.  There are 10 weight classes, so one's chances of being a "starter" are low, and one's chances of excelling are even lower.  Going from top dog to low man on the totem pole is tough on the psyche even for many football players, but getting your butt physically handed to you in the wrestling room every day for several years can be very demoralizing (especially in these "everyone gets a trophy" times we live in).

I might have you beat on the number of wrestlers at the state tournament, you didn't include the wrestlers only there for the team competition.  24*19-duplicates=pretty close to 1,000.    Are kids from small schools really that much weaker than big school kids?  Why are we unable to have a single class individual tournament?

True, but you're essentially comparing two different state tournaments.  To qualify for the individual tournament, you have to be a pretty good wrestler.  To qualify for the team tournament, you need to be part of a solid team.  I do think 3 classes is a bit excessive (I also think the number of classes in MN high school football is ridiculous).  While you do see phenomenal wrestlers from small schools (Kevin Steinhaus at the U of MN is a great example from Kerkohven-Murdock-Sunburg High School), kids from bigger schools definitely have an advantage in workout partners.  In wrestling, having a tough training partner to practice with makes you that much better.  Big schools have big rosters, so the likelihood of having someone there that can push you to the limit daily is much higher.

[Knightstalker]

Many (most?) conferences have a 'core' set of sports that a school must participate in to be a member.  I can't seem to find the list for the CCIW, but football is certainly one of them (otherwise, North Park might have abandoned the sport, not having won a conference game this millenium; they do however have 5 of the CCIW's 6 national titles in men's basketball).  (Perhaps uniquely, in the IIAC, one of them is wrestling - since IWU doesn't sponsor that sport, I'm glad the CCIW doesn't have that one!)

I take it the MIAC is one of the conferences without a core set of sports?

I actually think the concept of "core sports" is fairly limited. Considering St. Mary's doesn't have football and hasn't for decades, clearly that is not a consideration in the MIAC.

There are a lot of conferences who have a school without football. Have to be, considering almost 200 schools don't have the sport.

The NJAC is a good example of what Pat is saying.  There are 10 schools in the conference but only 5 football playing schools, which forces them to add associate members for football only.

[hazzben]

What a bunch of Sallies.  Seriously?  If they want to play MWC football, the MIAC should boot them out in all sports.

totally agree. Its one thing not to field a team in a MIAC sport (SMU football, Augs swimming, etc) but to join another league in a MIAC sanctioned sport? Founding member or not, Mac should be booted....or have the class to leave ala UMD

Absolutely agree. It was one thing to go independent because they didn't have the stones to compete. But to break off and join another conference? I say good riddance. The other MIAC schools need to lay aside 'Minnesota Nice' and deal with this properly. And they should make a provision that any MIAC school that desires to compete in a sport the MIAC sponsors needs to compete within the MIAC. The issue isn't that MAC isn't playing MIAC football, it's that instead of maintaining independence, they joined another conference.

There's no room for two-timing here. Especially when the girl doing the two-timing is as unattractive as MAC.

[rant]

The issue is not whether a school runs a full suite of sports, but that Mac runs some sports in one league and one sport in another league.  And the sport it runs "renegade" is THE sport.  Football is the college sport, then basketball and probably baseball.  The issue is that Mac treats the other schools in the MIAC with a distinct lack if respect, sort of like disposable friends that can be called for a night out when needed but ignored when they are inconvenient or embarrassing to Mac's classier friends.  Mac is a taker from the MIAC and not a giver.  Even, gasp, UST cannot have that low claim made against it.  For all their faults (and there are many) UST does not, and can be trusted to never, treat the schools in the MIAC with the same degree of contempt and selfishness that Mac has demonstrated with this narcissistic decision.

[/rant]

Yep, what Oz said. It is just ridiculous. And it's now a question of whether the other MIAC institutions (Presidents, AD's, etc.) are willing to call a spade a spade and recognize that they've been disrespected. And I'd even go a step further. Carleton, Hamline, Augsburg and all the other MIAC schools should refuse to schedule MAC in non-con football games.

Living in KC, I saw a similar scenario play out. When Mizzou decided they wanted to play in the SEC, KU said 'see ya later.' Mizzou was very public about the fact that they wanted the Border War to continue in basketball and football. (And just to be clear, that's a rivalry with way more history than anything a MIAC school has with MAC. It started with these two states killing each other. And their mascots are named after the people who did the killing!) Kansas and Bill Self's response, 'screw you!' If they wanted to leave, let 'em go. But Kansas wasn't going to be hanging around for sloppy seconds. 

The MIAC should give them the boot in all sports. And until they do, no MIAC school with any modicum of self-respect will schedule to play with them. If they want to leave, let them feel the weight of their decision. No more easy road trips up Snelling or 45 minutes down I-35. Let their student-athletes feel the gravity of driving hours further for games. Simply because they were too cowardly to get back up on the horse.

Good Riddance! 

[hazzben]

PS If MAC actually wins the Midwest Conference, I pray to God they play a MIAC school. And regardless of who that school is, I will cheer as loudly as if it was Bethel. And I hope they'd lay a quadruple Monkey Stomp on em. Just to make sure they realized they had snuck into the playoffs by running away from competition.

Deep breath. Ok, I think I'm done now.