FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Capn34]

Ok Pat got it Sorry Captain Francis

Capn34, I will retract the name "Captain A$$ Hat",  It was meant in good fun!!! sorry I went "overboard", like the pun?

No worries, my wife sometimes refers to me in that way

[hazzben]

Your logic in all of this is so bizarre that I can't even begin to counter it; once Oz Johnnie wakes up I'm sure he'll have something profound enough to make you put it to rest.

OK, then let me simplify it for you with an easy question.....can two teams share a single ranking....i.e. two #1 teams?

If they have the same number of points, two teams can certainly share the same ranking. I'm pretty sure we've had co-#[fill in the blank] before.

Which begs the question...do UST and Mount have the same number of points? 

[OzJohnnie]

Really?  You're putting a whole lotta faith in rankings after week #1.   

Duff - after I've disqualified your earlier comments, coming back with a "really, you are going to be that guy" comment is a bunch of hypocritical b.s.  When SJ1 is back in the rankings and you are commenting on them, I'll do you the favor of keeping my mouth shut.

Please, please, please, Johnnies.  Play your tails off.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm confused and my St John's education is probably to blame. When I look at the rankings I see Mount Union has 10 first place votes and 602 total votes. UST has 8 first place votes and 601 total votes. So UST is #1? Why does D3Football have a #1 next to Mount Union? Is it possible Mary Hardin-Baylor is #1 because they received one first place vote? That's a nice 1:1 ratio.

Funny.

Here is another way of describing my point.......
Pat, have two teams ever been considered co-#1s by the voters?  Is that even possible - could two teams have the same vote totals or receive the same # of first place votes?

Then Pat might respond with something like.....we don't allow the voters to split their #1 vote, but two teams could equal #1 votes or total votes.  This of course would suggest a co-#1 situation.  But practically speaking any two teams within 25 overall votes or 1/2 #1 votes could be considered equivalent.  The #1 rank is typically heavily favored by voters, so anytime the votes come close its clear two teams are practically sharing a ranking.  In fact you might argue today's poll has three teams sharing the top ranking.

That's what I am getting at......maybe Pat can weigh in for real and either support or disqualify the way I am looking at this.

We don't allow voters to split their No. 1 vote, but yes, the math is always possible that two teams could have the same total. It happens more often below the Top 25, in the others receiving votes, where the vote totals are smaller, and we did have teams tied for 25th last year or the year before.

[Pat Coleman]

Ron,
Like the vice president, Pat C. has very few actual duties at D3football.com. Figurehead, if you will. Visits dignitaries. But like the VP, I believe he does cast the deciding vote if there's a tie in the rankings.

I have one of the 25 ballots, so yeah, 4% of the influence.

[finsleft]

Let's all agree that UST is #1 and move onto a topic that might have marginal value.

I, for one. am looking forward to a great ice-fishing season, with a completely remodeled "shack".

[USTBench]

Retagent,

Garrett Cary had knee surgery over the summer and is taking a redshirt this year. Inside sources say, prior to the injury he was slated to play as a true freshman. As far as the surgery it doesn't appear to be anything too serious, just precautionary to have him sit out the year.

Ron Doney,

I've always been of the opinion that the National Champion is the #1 team until someone proves otherwise. Granted, UST beating a WIAC team by that large of a margin probably indicates another deep playoff run and a potential MIAC championship, but MUC played a ranked opponent right off the bat and has not lost since 2011.

Additionally, MUC often has a close game or two throughout the course of the season, so I don't think a close call against Franklin means regression as much as means that Franklin is damn good. Frankly, UST has struggled with the likes of GAC recently, but I don't think that negates the fact that UST is a top 5 team in the nation. I think most players on the last National Championship squad from SJU would say that a 3 - 7 UST squad gave them their toughest game of that season outside of maybe a quarterfinal game against Linfield.

Another reason why I'd give my #1 vote to MUC as opposed to UST is, UST really has no idea how they'd stack up against Wesley or MHB. UST has proven they can beat the likes of Linfield a few years ago in OT on their home turf, but MUC has proven they can dispatch of the elite powers in D3 nearly every year they didn't run into UWW. I'm just not sold that wins over SJ-Fisher, Hobart, Elmhurst, St. Norbert, Monmouth are comparable to having to go through MHB or Wesley to get to Salem.

Right now I'd leave MUC at #1 and I'd flip a coin between UST and MHB for #2 and Linfield and Wesley for #4.

[ron doney]

One last kick at the dead horse....

Here is how many see D3: UMU won the championship last year and was the preseason #1.....ho hum, I'll check back in come Stagg bowl time to see Vince win for the first time.

What the 25 D3 experts voting have said this weekend is.....wait, don't go anywhere, this thing is wide open.  Of the 15 experts that don't have UMU at #1....a handful of them have UMU at #3 or lower (I think that is the only way the math works for UMU and UST to be 1 point away).  #1 for the last 8 yrs has been UMU or WW....and now there are a few guys saying that the power schools aren't even in the top #3 today.  Yeah say what you will about polls not meaning anything, but that high level take away is a pretty clear message. 

The chase is wide open and there is clearly not a favorite.  UST, Linfield and UMHB are by no means locks and an injury away from having their seasons cut short.  With the chase wide open, all the more reason to follow UW Plateville and consider them a legitimate contender....or whoever else in the top ~10 that gets hot. 

If you look at the polls, see UMU at the top, say of course and yawn.....well I think you are missing the story.

[art76]

One last kick at the dead horse....

Here is how many see D3: UMU won the championship last year and was the preseason #1.....ho hum, I'll check back in come Stagg bowl time to see Vince win for the first time.

What the 25 D3 experts voting have said this weekend is.....wait, don't go anywhere, this thing is wide open.  Of the 15 experts that don't have UMU at #1....a handful of them have UMU at #3 or lower (I think that is the only way the math works for UMU and UST to be 1 point away).  #1 for the last 8 yrs has been UMU or WW....and now there are a few guys saying that the power schools aren't even in the top #3 today.  Yeah say what you will about polls not meaning anything, but that high level take away is a pretty clear message. 

The chase is wide open and there is clearly not a favorite.  UST, Linfield and UMHB are by no means locks and an injury away from having their seasons cut short.  With the chase wide open, all the more reason to follow UW Plateville and consider them a legitimate contender....or whoever else in the top ~10 that gets hot. 

If you look at the polls, see UMU at the top, say of course and yawn.....well I think you are missing the story.

Like.

[USTBench]

One last kick at the dead horse....

Here is how many see D3: UMU won the championship last year and was the preseason #1.....ho hum, I'll check back in come Stagg bowl time to see Vince win for the first time.

What the 25 D3 experts voting have said this weekend is.....wait, don't go anywhere, this thing is wide open.  Of the 15 experts that don't have UMU at #1....a handful of them have UMU at #3 or lower (I think that is the only way the math works for UMU and UST to be 1 point away).  #1 for the last 8 yrs has been UMU or WW....and now there are a few guys saying that the power schools aren't even in the top #3 today.  Yeah say what you will about polls not meaning anything, but that high level take away is a pretty clear message. 

The chase is wide open and there is clearly not a favorite.  UST, Linfield and UMHB are by no means locks and an injury away from having their seasons cut short.  With the chase wide open, all the more reason to follow UW Plateville and consider them a legitimate contender....or whoever else in the top ~10 that gets hot. 

If you look at the polls, see UMU at the top, say of course and yawn.....well I think you are missing the story.

I could certainly say that with the coaching change and the loss of a senior class that sent 5 guys to NFL camps that MUC is vulnerable. Additionally, I'd say the run for a championship in D3 is probably more wide open than it's been in a long time. HOWEVER, MUC has a pretty solid system in place, and I don't think much will change from an on-field success standpoint. It's just a matter of degree in how one views success. A few hundred teams would say a national semifinal appearance is an unbelievable season, not the case at MUC.

[ron doney]

Retagent,

Garrett Cary had knee surgery over the summer and is taking a redshirt this year. Inside sources say, prior to the injury he was slated to play as a true freshman. As far as the surgery it doesn't appear to be anything too serious, just precautionary to have him sit out the year.

Ron Doney,

I've always been of the opinion that the National Champion is the #1 team until someone proves otherwise. Granted, UST beating a WIAC team by that large of a margin probably indicates another deep playoff run and a potential MIAC championship, but MUC played a ranked opponent right off the bat and has not lost since 2011.

Additionally, MUC often has a close game or two throughout the course of the season, so I don't think a close call against Franklin means regression as much as means that Franklin is damn good. Frankly, UST has struggled with the likes of GAC recently, but I don't think that negates the fact that UST is a top 5 team in the nation. I think most players on the last National Championship squad from SJU would say that a 3 - 7 UST squad gave them their toughest game of that season outside of maybe a quarterfinal game against Linfield.

Another reason why I'd give my #1 vote to MUC as opposed to UST is, UST really has no idea how they'd stack up against Wesley or MHB. UST has proven they can beat the likes of Linfield a few years ago in OT on their home turf, but MUC has proven they can dispatch of the elite powers in D3 nearly every year they didn't run into UWW. I'm just not sold that wins over SJ-Fisher, Hobart, Elmhurst, St. Norbert, Monmouth are comparable to having to go through MHB or Wesley to get to Salem.

Right now I'd leave MUC at #1 and I'd flip a coin between UST and MHB for #2 and Linfield and Wesley for #4.

I follow ya....I think this year the top 5,6,7...are all very close.  I'd be at a loss to come up with order that doesn't have some circular arguments buried in it.  Right now some voters have UMU at #3 or lower (I believe based on the math) and I wouldn't be surprised if that's where they are in a few weeks. And is a poll with UMU at #3 much different from a poll with UMU in first by 1 point.....probably not.  But when the ranking shifts from #1 to #3 in a few weeks, you'll be hearing much more of this type of talk.

[DuffMan]

Edit, when did MUC become UMU?

A few years ago.  I still don't like it.

[ron doney]

One last kick at the dead horse....

Here is how many see D3: UMU won the championship last year and was the preseason #1.....ho hum, I'll check back in come Stagg bowl time to see Vince win for the first time.

What the 25 D3 experts voting have said this weekend is.....wait, don't go anywhere, this thing is wide open.  Of the 15 experts that don't have UMU at #1....a handful of them have UMU at #3 or lower (I think that is the only way the math works for UMU and UST to be 1 point away).  #1 for the last 8 yrs has been UMU or WW....and now there are a few guys saying that the power schools aren't even in the top #3 today.  Yeah say what you will about polls not meaning anything, but that high level take away is a pretty clear message. 

The chase is wide open and there is clearly not a favorite.  UST, Linfield and UMHB are by no means locks and an injury away from having their seasons cut short.  With the chase wide open, all the more reason to follow UW Plateville and consider them a legitimate contender....or whoever else in the top ~10 that gets hot. 

If you look at the polls, see UMU at the top, say of course and yawn.....well I think you are missing the story.

I could certainly say that with the coaching change and the loss of a senior class that sent 5 guys to NFL camps that MUC is vulnerable. Additionally, I'd say the run for a championship in D3 is probably more wide open than it's been in a long time. HOWEVER, MUC has a pretty solid system in place, and I don't think much will change from an on-field success standpoint. It's just a matter of degree in how one views success. A few hundred teams would say a national semifinal appearance is an unbelievable season, not the case at MUC.

They'll be in the championship discussion for the foreseeable future no doubt.  But I think the days of them being a forgone conclusion are over - they were with UWW in the picture, but just because they won the first championship after UWW doesn't mean the forgone conclusion comes back. 

I think going forward they are like a Duke or Mich St in basketball.  Because of their program or system they are going to do well.  With a Mateen Cleaves or a Jay Williams we will consider them a lock, but without one I don't think the program guarantees them championships or top 4 finishes.

[ron doney]

One last kick at the dead horse....

Here is how many see D3: UMU won the championship last year and was the preseason #1.....ho hum, I'll check back in come Stagg bowl time to see Vince win for the first time.

What the 25 D3 experts voting have said this weekend is.....wait, don't go anywhere, this thing is wide open.  Of the 15 experts that don't have UMU at #1....a handful of them have UMU at #3 or lower (I think that is the only way the math works for UMU and UST to be 1 point away).  #1 for the last 8 yrs has been UMU or WW....and now there are a few guys saying that the power schools aren't even in the top #3 today.  Yeah say what you will about polls not meaning anything, but that high level take away is a pretty clear message. 

The chase is wide open and there is clearly not a favorite.  UST, Linfield and UMHB are by no means locks and an injury away from having their seasons cut short.  With the chase wide open, all the more reason to follow UW Plateville and consider them a legitimate contender....or whoever else in the top ~10 that gets hot. 

If you look at the polls, see UMU at the top, say of course and yawn.....well I think you are missing the story.

Like.

Thx.  The funny thing is I think I picked up 5 or so negative karma points today.  The only questionable thing I did was call someone out for being hypocritical/passive aggressive.....and then received a handful of more passive aggressive karma dings.  Can't make it up.

[OzJohnnie]

RD, you're a walking, typing logical inconsistency. Up until your last post I was still harbouring a suspicion that you were trolling us and not serious. But you are serious. So, here's what gives:

1. Your argument is self-defeating.  If the poll is flawed or not reflective if reality for any reason then there is no validity to how it rates UST, much less MUC.

2. Your argument insults the poll voters. Are they stooges that overrate MUC or are they professionals in the industry with a better grip on teams than any of us clowns here?  You also went pretty close to gratuitously insulting the integrity of our patron, PC, who has built all this D3 infrastructure with the help of his dedicated partners and gives it to us for nothing.

3. Your argument smacks of desperation for external validation. UST earns their rewards regardless of what the poll says. I hope the players are more self actualising than you appear to be.

So your karma pings?  Probably because you are utterly ignorant of how your posts appear to anyone not wearing the same set of blinders you are. And make it -1 more.  I was just pushed over the edge.