FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sjusection105]

Wow - you must have some really bad memories from Arden Hills. 

More that I just think it's a terrible place to watch a game.

Just curious, what makes it such a bad place to watch a game?  I'll give you that it is one of the lesser setups in the conference, and that it is basically a HS stadium, but what about it makes it terrible?

I know the visitor bleachers have been upgraded but in 2002, my sister in-law (5'5" 115 lbs) fell through the bleachers up to her knee. That makes a bad experience. I've been to a lot of D3 Stadiums around the country and Bethel needs some improvements..... That's just my personal experience.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Wow - you must have some really bad memories from Arden Hills. 

More that I just think it's a terrible place to watch a game.

Just curious, what makes it such a bad place to watch a game?  I'll give you that it is one of the lesser setups in the conference, and that it is basically a HS stadium, but what about it makes it terrible?

I know the visitor bleachers have been upgraded but in 2002, my sister in-law (5'5" 115 lbs) fell through the bleachers up to her knee. That makes a bad experience. I've been to a lot of D3 Stadiums around the country and Bethel needs some improvements..... That's just my personal experience.

Wow! That is awful!

However, as you've pointed out, that has been fixed.  The visitor bleachers, while lacking a bit in size, are relatively new.

So my question still stands...what makes it terrible? 

Could it use improvements? Absolutely.

My personal hygiene, much like Royal Stadium, could use improvements.  Is it terrible? Far from it.

My feeling is that you Johnnie backers are spoiled by having God's version of a football stadium as home, and that BU is comparitively terrible, which would be true in comparisson to the natural bowl.

Royal Stadium is, after all, the finest small college football venue in Arden Hills. 

[art76]

Concerning Bethel's seating at their field (it ain't a stadium by any stretch of the imagination)

I think/suspect that we have a bit of a cause and effect proposition; here's why. Bethel has now started to become a team that is consistently finding itself in the playoffs. That builds energy in the program which in turn causes alumni to take pride and ownership in the program, thereby opening their wallets and getting a stadium built. As of right now (at least that I've been privy to hearing about) no alumni or friends of alumni have stepped forward to finance said stadium. If Bethel could break through the semi-finals and consistently be competing for the championship for a spell I think there will be a new stadium being built sooner rather than later. (Hopefully without a track around it and soccer lines on it and real grass - but I digress). And there's a real good chance it would eventually have Steve Johnson's name on top of it, deservedly so.

[hazzben]

A link to a bracket trying to pull together the best 32 teams for the field.

Now, I'm not against equal access and the Pool A system. But every year, good teams get left out. Here's an example of what a field of the best could look like. I'm not sure what his metrics are, but he says he didn't use margin of victory, hence where UMU falls from #1 to #4. He first posted it on the ATN comments section.

Some teams that stand out ('seeded' 1 through 32, so #4 is the bottom 1 seed) for this board or quality that didn't make the field. Bold teams didn't make the real field:

1. Bethel
2. Linfield
3. UWW
4. UMU
5. NCC
6. UMHB
8. PLU
10. UWP
13. Cobbers
14. UST
18. UWO
19. Willamette
27. Wheaton
28. SJU
31. Heidelberg
32. Wabash

Just found it interesting. It would be one nasty tournament with I think a lot more upsets.

[sjusection105]

Concerning Bethel's seating at their field (it ain't a stadium by any stretch of the imagination)

I think/suspect that we have a bit of a cause and effect proposition; here's why. Bethel has now started to become a team that is consistently finding itself in the playoffs. That builds energy in the program which in turn causes alumni to take pride and ownership in the program, thereby opening their wallets and getting a stadium built. As of right now (at least that I've been privy to hearing about) no alumni or friends of alumni have stepped forward to finance said stadium. If Bethel could break through the semi-finals and consistently be competing for the championship for a spell I think there will be a new stadium being built sooner rather than later. (Hopefully without a track around it and soccer lines on it and real grass - but I digress). And there's a real good chance it would eventually have Steve Johnson's name on top of it, deservedly so.

That would be sweet.
Something similar to GAC stadium would be nice. I'm not a fan of the Hamline/UST model where fans are all pretty much on one side of the field.

[hazzben]

Concerning Bethel's seating at their field (it ain't a stadium by any stretch of the imagination)

I think/suspect that we have a bit of a cause and effect proposition; here's why. Bethel has now started to become a team that is consistently finding itself in the playoffs. That builds energy in the program which in turn causes alumni to take pride and ownership in the program, thereby opening their wallets and getting a stadium built. As of right now (at least that I've been privy to hearing about) no alumni or friends of alumni have stepped forward to finance said stadium. If Bethel could break through the semi-finals and consistently be competing for the championship for a spell I think there will be a new stadium being built sooner rather than later. (Hopefully without a track around it and soccer lines on it and real grass - but I digress). And there's a real good chance it would eventually have Steve Johnson's name on top of it, deservedly so.

That would be sweet.
Something similar to GAC stadium would be nice. I'm not a fan of the Hamline/UST model where fans are all pretty much on one side of the field.

Amen to this. Not a fan of playing on the road with no fans at your back.

[retagent]

Anyone else envisioning a Bethel/Linfield Stagg Bowl?

[Johnnie]

Sharing a little exercise I've done the last couple of years, but never posted here on this board (that I can recollect).

I took the playoff bracket and simply put the final top 25 ranking from D3 football next to each team. For teams not in the top 25 but still receiving votes, I simply continued counting down until there were no more teams with votes. Finally, if a team received no votes they got the highest number, which this year is a 39. There are 6 39 teams this year, 3 on each side of the bracket. Here are the results:

184 UWW
180 BU
178 UMHB
155 UMU

These numbers say that the "toughest" bracket is Mount Union's - but don't be fooled by the total numbers. If we take just the top two teams in each bracket we come up with these numbers:

11 UMU
11 UMHB
10 BU
7 UWW

Finally, taking the top 4 teams in each bracket we get these numbers:

45 UMHB
40 UWW
38 UMU - two of these teams play in the first round, effectively making it a three horse race in the second round.
31 BU

Being a BU fan is not the reason for my saying the following, but it seems pretty obvious that the BU bracket looks the toughest to get through, regardless of what team you are rooting for in the finals.

Go Royals!

I agree with your assessment. 

As an elaboration, it would be interesting to see the overall probability that a given team makes it through its own bracket, versus the respective probabilities associated with the other brackets (where the team of interest 'replaces' the respective team in the common 'slot' in the other brackets).

Of course, computing the probabilities may not be straightforward, but should be doable based on a suitable methodology.  I suspect that for some poorer ranked teams their (lower) probabilities would be somewhat variable but stay low.  For the better teams, I also expect the probabilities to change somewhat.  So, BU may go from a 38.4% in their own bracket, to maybe a 32.7% or 44.5% in other brackets.  Obviously, BU wants to be in the bracket with the maximum probability; and I suspect, it's not the one they are in.

[faunch]

Anyone else envisioning a Bethel/Linfield Stagg Bowl?

No

[art76]

Anyone else envisioning a Bethel/Linfield Stagg Bowl?

No

For Faunch and others that are regular contributors here - what kind of final do you envision and why? My Royal Blue and Gold rimmed glasses make my projection tainted a bit.

[DoubleO]

Congrats to Bethel on an outstanding season. This Tommie will be pulling for you in the post season and hopes you represent the MIAC capably.

A couple of tough losses for the Toms this season. Unfortunately, the outcome of this season did not meet with expectations. The most telling indicator of the state of the Tommie Football Union is the disappoint that is felt over an 8-2 campaign.

I feel for all the seniors who will never suit up again. Especially Ben Duncan-it's a shame that he was not able to pick up the reigns when O'Connell went down after all of the commitment he has put into the F.A.M.I.L.Y. the 3 seasons prior! All of the seniors played a profound role in the turn around that has taken place in St. Paul and I tip my cap to each of them.

[D O.C.]

Quote from: retagent on Today at 11:50:48 am
Anyone else envisioning a Bethel/Linfield Stagg Bowl?

No

Why? Bethel may not make it?

[RoyalsFan]

Wow - you must have some really bad memories from Arden Hills. 

More that I just think it's a terrible place to watch a game.

Granted, SJU is a much nicer stadium and given the same weather conditions I too would rather watch a game at SJU. However, given the conditions of last Saturday (rain, cold, wind), I would much rather watch a game ANYWHERE else if it is 60 and sunny out. When it's rainy, cold and windy it is just not very enjoyable to me to endure those conditions.

But I wouldn't call Arden Hills a 'terrible' place to watch a game. Yeah, there could be more seating made available on the visitors side, but about the only time that more seating has been needed the last several years is for the SJU game. I'm assuming that the only time you are at Arden Hills is for the SJU game, then I could see where your point of view may be skewed a bit from a seating stand point but again, I wouldn't classify that in the 'terrible' category.  About the only thing that would make it terrible for me is if there are obstructed views from the stands.

[hazzben]

I'll bite on the difficulty of the path & Bethel's bracket.

I think art76 has a point about which quadrant is most difficult. But I don't think this necessarily means Bethel has the hardest path. They will only play 3 teams from their region, assuming they keep winning. So a 'region' with only 1 other really strong team or 2 (but they are both on the opposite side) would be preferable, absolutely.

But beyond that, if most of the other regions have at least 2 or 3 quality teams, I'd want a bracket filled with good teams. The more difficult teams in a given bracket, the more brutal the path. As the top seed, you should have the easiest path, barring upsets. So having 5-6 quality teams in a bracket isn't bad for the top seed. At most, they'll see 2 of them on the field (assuming they got an easy Rd 1 game, which I think we'd all agree Bethel did - though we still have to beat 'em).

But the added quality does mean that it's a much more difficult path for the 2, 3, 4 and 5 (maybe even 6) seeds. That's in the 1 seeds favor. There's an element to the playoffs that is just a war of attrition. Staying healthy is huge. You don't want a total cake walk, or you'll be unprepared for the semi's.

But the fact that we got Wartburg v. IWU rd 1 and potentially UWP v. NCC rd 2 is something I'm happy about. Let 'em beat each other up! If it was just IWU v. a patsy & NCC with a few weak teams, it'd actually be a harder quad for Bethel to win. Although on paper there'd be fewer quality teams.

[art76]

Historical Pause - 150 years ago this address was given:

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that "all men are created equal"

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of it, as a final resting place for those who died here, that the nation might live. This we may, in all propriety do. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow, this ground-- The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have hallowed it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here; while it can never forget what they did here.

It is rather for us, the living, to stand here, we here be dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that, from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here, gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain; that the nation, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people by the people for the people, shall not perish from the earth."  - Abraham Lincoln