FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Retired Old Rat]

OzJohnnie fronted me some cash so I didn't need to talk my way in.

I almost forgot about that.  The guy travels from "Melbun" to Collegeville and ends up fronting you some cash.  I had to laugh. 

That was embarrassing.  I'd have laughed if it wasn't me.  And probably made a sarcastic comment.  Now I need to get to "Melbun" to pay off my debt.

[Mr.MIAC]

You asked about SJU and BU. I helped out with some alumni mentoring recently and can tell you that a few young alumni openly characterized other MIAC schools, with the exception of Macalester and Carleton, as "second-tier" safety schools. I was a little surprised they were so forthright with these opinions. Maybe UST's institutional success, it's push toward national prominence, over the past few decades is coloring these students' attitudes.

You're either delusional, or you pal around with the complete a-holes at U$T.  As much as it pains me to say, most of the Tommie grads that I know are good folks.  I'm hoping they're the majority, but every time you "open your mouth", you seem to sway my opinion the other way.

Either you're looking to stir the pot or you missed the point of my response. These were young alumni met through mentoring, not folks I "pal around with." Furthermore, holding the views they espoused does not preclude them from being "good folks." It simply means they don't think highly of some other MIAC schools and were willing to share. My point was contained within the last line you chose not to quote, the part where I said these attitudes are harmful. As an aside, perhaps you should get yourself out of attack mode. It's no longer Tommie/Johnnie week.

Delusional.

It's nice to hear that my claim we might be suffering from too much hubris is delusional...

[hazzben]

Bethel is going down to St. Peter to take on the well rested Gusties. On paper or if you're looking at the conference records from afar you would be mistaken in thinking that this will be a close game. Gustavus will score some points against the Royals but not nearly enough as Bethel puts away the second team in as many weeks with only one loss coming into the game.

I thin you're taking GAC much too lightly. Bethel will be the favorite and if they protect the ball and play the way they're capable of, they should win. But GAC was completely in the game against SJU. It wasn't a flukey win by the Johnnies, but Gustavus went toe to toe. That blocked PAT was a huge momentum swing. GAC was kicking to tie it, instead it gets blocked and returned and suddenly they're down 3. Hendricks is a very good QB. (I'd put him just behind Peterson in the MIAC pecking order. Though if he had a huge game and led them to the win Saturday, you'd probably have the beginning of an argument to put him above Peterson. I'd still need to see him win a few more big games first, since Peterson has a bunch of significant wins in his career) Still though, anytime a team is playing with an All MIAC caliber QB, they are a legitimate threat (as opposed to unlikely) to pull of the upset. Hendricks will be the biggest test at QB that BU has faced since Wartburg.

The game of the week in the MIAC because of all the play-off implications has to be Concordia traveling down to St. Thomas. Above I mentioned that Hamline might be a barometer of how these two teams  might stack up against one another. St. Thomas scored more points against Hamline while Hamline scored fewer points against Concordia. Additionally, comparing the Royals to the Cobbers and Tommies simply by the scores of the games played this year one sees that Concordia held BU to less points and St. Thomas scored more points. After watching Bethel play both of these teams I would say that Concordia looks like the better team this year because of the apparent better defense they seem to exhibit. The Cobbers also appear to be better disciplined on the field – less drama, which might have been the Tommies undoing this past week against BU.

The score comparison game is of little utility in comparing teams. Case in point, St. Thomas had much more impressive wins against their two common opponents with Bethel coming into Saturday.

UST: 62 Ham: 24 
BU: 38 Ham: 14

UST: 69 STO: 7
BU: 40 STO: 0

If we'd been score-casting last week, you'd have to have assumed UST had the edge. On the field Saturday, that definitely wasn't the case. Teams matchup differently against different teams and styles. Comparing blowout wins and competitive wins between teams isn't all that helpful.

Having said that, I think GAC v. Bethel is the Game of the Week. It's MIAC 1 versus MIAC 3 (though in terms of losses, they are basically tied with the Cobbers and SJU at #2). Both are playing for their playoff life. Bethel loses and they need help to win the MIAC and wouldn't be a strong Pool C candidate because of the Wartburg result and there being only 5 Pool C bids this year (as opposed to 6). GAC loses and they are effectively done, unless chaos ensues and they somehow still pull out the MIAC Pool A.

For the Cobbers and UST, it's MIAC 2 versus MIAC 5. UST has no shot at the playoffs, baring utter chaos and upset city down the stretch. The Cobbers win, and they've got a great shot at a Pool C bid.

What makes it interesting is that both favorites are playing on the road. UST hasn't lost to the Cobbers at home since their 2-8 2007 debacle of a season. The home field factor might be significantly diminished for UST in terms of crowd support though. Historically, when UST isn't atop the standing or in the playoff hunt, Summit & Snelling folks tend to jump on the MAC bandwagon   

This is gonna be a fun stretch run in the MIAC. I'm hoping Bethel wins out (shocker  ) but also that the Cobbers can close things out. I want to see another MIAC team in the playoffs via Pool C.

[ChicagoTommie]

Don't sweat it Rev, we are all delusional to the Johnnies on this board but one positive can come out of this, is to light a fire under the program and add a since of urgency for UST for this weeks game! I can't wait to see what transpires this week at practice and especially the game!!!

[Retired Old Rat]

You asked about SJU and BU. I helped out with some alumni mentoring recently and can tell you that a few young alumni openly characterized other MIAC schools, with the exception of Macalester and Carleton, as "second-tier" safety schools. I was a little surprised they were so forthright with these opinions. Maybe UST's institutional success, it's push toward national prominence, over the past few decades is coloring these students' attitudes.

You're either delusional, or you pal around with the complete a-holes at U$T.  As much as it pains me to say, most of the Tommie grads that I know are good folks.  I'm hoping they're the majority, but every time you "open your mouth", you seem to sway my opinion the other way.

Either you're looking to stir the pot or you missed the point of my response. These were young alumni met through mentoring, not folks I "pal around with." Furthermore, holding the views they espoused does not preclude them from being "good folks." It simply means they don't think highly of some other MIAC schools and were willing to share. My point was contained within the last line you chose not to quote, the part where I said these attitudes are harmful. As an aside, perhaps you should get yourself out of attack mode. It's no longer Tommie/Johnnie week.

Delusional.

It's nice to hear that my claim we might be suffering from too much hubris is delusional...

Reread your original post.  The hubris comment came prior to this:  "with the exception of Macalester and Carleton, as "second-tier" safety schools."  By my the hubris comment only applied to football.

BTW, UST was a safety choice for 4 of my 4 children, against my wishes.  Only one actually attended.  And it worked out well for her.  However, she never felt like CSB or SJU were second tier.

[sjusection105]

Don't sweat it Rev, we are all delusional to the Johnnies on this board but one positive can come out of this, is to light a fire under the program and add a since of urgency for UST for this weeks game! I can't wait to see what transpires this week at practice and especially the game!!!

Chi-town Tommie, are you in town this week or just get a report on practice from your son? It would be interesting to find out what happens in practice. Please share.

[Mr.MIAC]

Don't sweat it Rev, we are all delusional to the Johnnies on this board but one positive can come out of this, is to light a fire under the program and add a since of urgency for UST for this weeks game! I can't wait to see what transpires this week at practice and especially the game!!!

Agreed. I think we need more than a sense of urgency, though. We were moving with urgency second half of the Bethel game. O'Connell is looking really shaky and maybe it would be better for us to focus on developing players for next year these remaining games.

PS: We'll be doing a little tailgating Saturday before the All Blacks match. Let me know if you want to join. Also, there are still some tickets left for purchase via resellers if you're looking to attend.

[hazzben]

Don't sweat it Rev, we are all delusional to the Johnnies on this board but one positive can come out of this, is to light a fire under the program and add a since of urgency for UST for this weeks game! I can't wait to see what transpires this week at practice and especially the game!!!

ChicagoTommie's consistently exceptional grammar is probably the strongest case to be made for U$T's academic superiority. 

Aren't they calling UST the Harvard of the Midwest Cretin & Summit?  Or maybe that's just the scuttlebutt in the beltway.

[Mr.MIAC]

You asked about SJU and BU. I helped out with some alumni mentoring recently and can tell you that a few young alumni openly characterized other MIAC schools, with the exception of Macalester and Carleton, as "second-tier" safety schools. I was a little surprised they were so forthright with these opinions. Maybe UST's institutional success, it's push toward national prominence, over the past few decades is coloring these students' attitudes.

You're either delusional, or you pal around with the complete a-holes at U$T.  As much as it pains me to say, most of the Tommie grads that I know are good folks.  I'm hoping they're the majority, but every time you "open your mouth", you seem to sway my opinion the other way.

Either you're looking to stir the pot or you missed the point of my response. These were young alumni met through mentoring, not folks I "pal around with." Furthermore, holding the views they espoused does not preclude them from being "good folks." It simply means they don't think highly of some other MIAC schools and were willing to share. My point was contained within the last line you chose not to quote, the part where I said these attitudes are harmful. As an aside, perhaps you should get yourself out of attack mode. It's no longer Tommie/Johnnie week.

Delusional.

It's nice to hear that my claim we might be suffering from too much hubris is delusional...

Reread your original post.  The hubris comment came prior to this:  "with the exception of Macalester and Carleton, as "second-tier" safety schools."  By my the hubris comment only applied to football.

BTW, UST was a safety choice for 4 of my 4 children, against my wishes.  Only one actually attended.  And it worked out well for her.  However, she never felt like CSB or SJU were second tier.

Apologies. To my mind, me characterizing these views expressed by young alumni as surprising, and if held by football players as harmful, implied my general disapproval. It's not like we're talking about innocent banter amongst adults on a football board. Of course the opinions in question came from only a handful of young folks.

Not to generalize too much, but out here I tend to run into three types of young alumni: 1) People who think UST is the greatest thing since sliced bread and are a little surprised to find it's less known nationally; 2) People who value their UST education, but went on to a top-tier graduate school and are more active with the latter; and 3) People who aggressively celebrate all of their affiliations with the aim of growing the largest network possible.

I tend to embrace all Minnesotans who cross my path here in DC (even Johnnies), as it's nice to talk about where I grew up. I also appreciate that it takes some guts to come out here and succeed without the benefit of a massive alumni apparatus.   

[art76]

I thin you're taking GAC much too lightly. Bethel will be the favorite and if they protect the ball and play the way they're capable of, they should win.

What makes it interesting is that both favorites are playing on the road. UST hasn't lost to the Cobbers at home since their 2-8 2007 debacle of a season. The home field factor might be significantly diminished for UST in terms of crowd support though. Historically, when UST isn't atop the standing or in the playoff hunt, Summit & Snelling folks tend to jump on the MAC bandwagon   

This is gonna be a fun stretch run in the MIAC. I'm hoping Bethel wins out (shocker  ) but also that the Cobbers can close things out. I want to see another MIAC team in the playoffs via Pool C.

We agree that Bethel is the likely winner in this game, but I'm not taking it lightly - I just don't think GAC will stay that close. They'll want to but be unable to. It might become a Monkey Stomp and I'd be surprised it Bethel wins by less than two scores (nine points). Maybe you've seen something I haven't in the Gusties and I'll be eating crow next week, but I write 'em like I see 'em.

I would also like to see Concordia take care of business this week against the Tommies, but again, I'll stand by my words that this looks to be the better (closer score) of the two games.

Go Bethel!

[GoldandBlueBU]

3) I don't see as many natural leaders on the team as in years past;

I think this might be the biggest piece, IMO.

In 2012, they had something really good going...whether OConnel was playing lights out, or whatever it was, they had lightning in a bottle that year, and were getting it done with a lot of different players.

Prior to that, you had Dakota Tracy - Fritz Waldvoge, and Colin Tobin as the face of the program, in terms of offensive productivity.  They don't really have a "go to" guy or couple of guys at this point.  The younger Waldvogel is a nice player, but not the type to put the team on his back and change a game all by himself.

This is sort of surprising to me, because from watching them play, they seem to have some really athletic and talented players, but not anyone who is really head and shoulders above the others in terms of taking charge.

Every F.A.M.I.L.Y needs a leader...does it not?   

[Mr.MIAC]

3) I don't see as many natural leaders on the team as in years past;

I think this might be the biggest piece, IMO.

In 2012, they had something really good going...whether OConnel was playing lights out, or whatever it was, they had lightning in a bottle that year, and were getting it done with a lot of different players.

Prior to that, you had Dakota Tracy - Fritz Waldvoge, and Colin Tobin as the face of the program, in terms of offensive productivity.  They don't really have a "go to" guy or couple of guys at this point.  The younger Waldvogel is a nice player, but not the type to put the team on his back and change a game all by himself.

This is sort of surprising to me, because from watching them play, they seem to have some really athletic and talented players, but not anyone who is really head and shoulders above the others in terms of taking charge.

Every F.A.M.I.L.Y needs a leader...does it not?   

I think balance can be a good thing and maybe that's the approach they're taking, but you're right that we need a couple of leaders to serve as the face of the team. With all the talent, I can't really think of who that would be aside from Coach Caruso. I'm not familiar enough with MU and UWWW. What do they do in this regard?

[hazzben]

3) I don't see as many natural leaders on the team as in years past;

I think this might be the biggest piece, IMO.

In 2012, they had something really good going...whether OConnel was playing lights out, or whatever it was, they had lightning in a bottle that year, and were getting it done with a lot of different players.

Prior to that, you had Dakota Tracy - Fritz Waldvoge, and Colin Tobin as the face of the program, in terms of offensive productivity.  They don't really have a "go to" guy or couple of guys at this point.  The younger Waldvogel is a nice player, but not the type to put the team on his back and change a game all by himself.

This is sort of surprising to me, because from watching them play, they seem to have some really athletic and talented players, but not anyone who is really head and shoulders above the others in terms of taking charge.

I'd agree as well when applying this to the defensive side of the ball. They don't have any star power on D like they have in the past (E.g. Pitera, Williams, Riley Dombek, Oji, Danna, Baregi, Idowu, Deitz or Ervin). The teams that made deep playoff runs were made up of lots of very good players with a good smattering of great players.

Right now, I think on both sides of the ball UST has lots of good to very good players. But when they need someone to make a play against a Bethel, SJU or Concordia, they don't have anyone consistently making those plays.

[Boys of Fall]

When Caruso first came on board he was able to bring in some impact players with the lure of being able to play, and perhaps start, for three of four years.  Now that the UST program is stronger that isn't the case and he doesn't have the talent advantage he might have had a few years ago.  It appears now he's simply being outcoached by Johnson and Fasching.

[OldAuggie]

When Caruso first came on board he was able to bring in some impact players with the lure of being able to play, and perhaps start, for three of four years.  Now that the UST program is stronger that isn't the case and he doesn't have the talent advantage he might have had a few years ago.  It appears now he's simply being outcoached by Johnson and Fasching.

I agree with this and that NC year they had a center who had transferred from the U of MN. He was a leader (can't recall his name) for sure and he was a good player. They ran the ball well that year and when I saw that kid come up to the line for the first time I thought he looked like a D1 player. You can talk about the skill guys all you want but the offensive line has to have a leader as well. He was that guy and I am glad he graduated and is off to the real world. Someone here will recall his name. He was a very mature kid and was a speech teacher at Edina if I recall correctly