FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[AO]

In my opinion, not winning games greatly hurts your chances of getting a Pool C bid, regardless of who you played to get there.

Regardless?
If you're 5-5 but you played nothing but top 25 regionally ranked teams couldn't you use the criteria to be select that team over a 9-1 East Region team without any regionally ranked wins?

I know you're just doing what you usually do but let's be honest -- UWO essentially just did the same thing, going 6-4 against a slate of two regionally ranked teams and three scholarship schools.

I'd think Oshkosh would have had a great chance if the scholarship teams were regionally ranked and helped the SOS though  they would still have less regionally ranked wins than Bethel did. 

Let's just say that instead of losing to Augsburg, Bethel lost to Whitewater.  The conference is already so tough they don't need to add top tier non-conference games to make it, just avoid bad losses.

[57Johnnie]

This is playoff week one.
The Saints are Marching in to Collegeville and the Tomcats are going to Waverly.

The left outs ONLY  thoughts should be like our friends in McMinnville a few years ago
Leave No Doubt

[Retired Old Rat]

Well, that worked.

I never said he was evil.  I simply passed on some observations from a passionate, in the know Tommie.  Some people think I'm an ass but believe I do have few redeeming qualities.

I noticed no comment on the biggest factor mentioned, ego.  There is an "I" in family.

The Caruso era is in reverse.  The facts bear that out.  Things that were previously palatable don't taste quite as good with the current trend line.

Oh, and Bench, I'll request a list of the cast always and post it here.  It's been my history to shame young athletes in this public forum in the past.  Right?

[hazzben]

In my opinion, not winning games greatly hurts your chances of getting a Pool C bid, regardless of who you played to get there.

This. We went 7-3, and in the immortal words of Bill Parcels (I think??) "You are what your record says you are." We didn't fail to get in because we lost to 10-0 Warburg, we didn't get in because lost to 4-6 Augsburg. At 8-2 with a loss to Augsburg and no Warburg result, I don't this we can assume Bethel is in. In fact, I'd assume we're probably out.

Do I think we're a better team than Augsburg, yes. But brutal field conditions, Augsburg playing a great game (offensively) and just flat out attrition caught up to us.

In my opinion, not winning games greatly hurts your chances of getting a Pool C bid, regardless of who you played to get there.

Exactly!!!  So it makes more sense to schedule weaker non conference opponents to get wins and get a better chance at a Pool C bid. That's all I was trying to point out.

No, you're not seeing it. 8-2 Bethel with Augsburg & SJU losses is not the same as 8-2 Bethel with Warburg & SJU losses. this argument is happening because we all assumed an 8-2 Bethel team was a lock for the playoffs. But that was an 8-2 Bethel team with losses only to the IIAC and MIAC champs. If we'd lost to Augsburg in week 4, beaten Chicago and MAC in our non-con and then lost to SJU last week, most projections wouldn't have had us making the field. Why? Because we lost to Augsburg and our non-con schedule isn't that impressive. If we beat Warburg and lose to Augsburg, now we might have a shot. Why? Because we've added another W v. a RRO.

Does it stink to watch UST make the field after we beat them. Yep. But it is no longer apples to apples comparing Bethel and UST. They are 8-2 and we are 7-3. The anomaly on our resume is the Augsburg loss. This is football. Injuries happen. I would love to have seen what this team looked like if it didn't lose it's top 2 ILB's and NT down the stretch, the loss of Mathis was particularly devastating. But guess what, we lost them. We don't get to wave our magic wand and make Bethel 100% healthy to start the playoffs any more than I can waive my magic wand and give us field turf for the playoff run last year and the Augsburg game this year.

[DuffMan]

[GoldandBlueBU]

In my opinion, not winning games greatly hurts your chances of getting a Pool C bid, regardless of who you played to get there.

This. We went 7-3, and in the immortal words of Bill Parcels (I think??) "You are what your record says you are." We didn't fail to get in because we lost to 10-0 Warburg, we didn't get in because lost to 4-6 Augsburg. At 8-2 with a loss to Augsburg and no Warburg result, I don't this we can assume Bethel is in. In fact, I'd assume we're probably out.

Do I think we're a better team than Augsburg, yes. But brutal field conditions, Augsburg playing a great game (offensively) and just flat out attrition caught up to us.

In my opinion, not winning games greatly hurts your chances of getting a Pool C bid, regardless of who you played to get there.

Exactly!!!  So it makes more sense to schedule weaker non conference opponents to get wins and get a better chance at a Pool C bid. That's all I was trying to point out.

No, you're not seeing it. 8-2 Bethel with Augsburg & SJU losses is not the same as 8-2 Bethel with Warburg & SJU losses. this argument is happening because we all assumed an 8-2 Bethel team was a lock for the playoffs. But that was an 8-2 Bethel team with losses only to the IIAC and MIAC champs. If we'd lost to Augsburg in week 4, beaten Chicago and MAC in our non-con and then lost to SJU last week, most projections wouldn't have had us making the field. Why? Because we lost to Augsburg and our non-con schedule isn't that impressive. If we beat Warburg and lose to Augsburg, now we might have a shot. Why? Because we've added another W v. a RRO.

Does it stink to watch UST make the field after we beat them. Yep. But it is no longer apples to apples comparing Bethel and UST. They are 8-2 and we are 7-3. The anomaly on our resume is the Augsburg loss. This is football. Injuries happen. I would love to have seen what this team looked like if it didn't lose it's top 2 ILB's and NT down the stretch, the loss of Mathis was particularly devastating. But guess what, we lost them. We don't get to wave our magic wand and make Bethel 100% healthy to start the playoffs any more than I can waive my magic wand and give us field turf for the playoff run last year and the Augsburg game this year.

Well said Hazz.  +K.

I wonder what next year will bring...new QB and all.  Is there is an heir-apparent, as there was with Peterson when Aakre graduated, or if it is completely open competition for next year?

Also I heard it was a torn ACL with Mathis...hopefully he can be back full force next season.

[USTBench]

Well, that worked.

I never said he was evil.  I simply passed on some observations from a passionate, in the know Tommie.  Some people think I'm an ass but believe I do have few redeeming qualities.

I noticed no comment on the biggest factor mentioned, ego.  There is an "I" in family.

The Caruso era is in reverse.  The facts bear that out.  Things that were previously palatable don't taste quite as good with the current trend line.

Oh, and Bench, I'll request a list of the cast always and post it here. It's been my history to shame young athletes in this public forum in the past.  Right?

ROR, you seem to have no problem shaming a man based on a rumor you heard.

Even Lance Leipold went 7 -3 and missed the playoffs in 2012. It happens. Regardless of how UST got in the playoffs this year, they still made it. And they missed it last year by a missed FG and a last minute Bethel drive.

Even the almighty Gags had a few down years when SJU was between National Championships. I will tip my hat to Gary Fasching, but the only real difference there is now SJU's HC is doing what Gags was too old to do anymore: recruit. SJU was down and UST used a young coach with a lot of drive and exploited that opportunity. Now the playing field has evened out again. UST and SJU are going after the same kids again, or at least competing as hard for them. For a good 3 years, SJU wasn't recruiting as hard and Caruso took advantage of that. Steve Johnson also upped his recruiting in response I would imagine. There's not a lot of overlap in the kids Horan goes after, but he's also not resting on his laurels. I don't think it's about the Caruso era in decline, I think it's more of the top dog programs getting sick of UST winning MIAC titles and making deep playoff runs while they sit at home.

And as far as young athletes go, if they were ostensibly cut I would love to see/hear some evidence of that other than back channel grumbling from some helicopter parents complaining about their kid's lack of playing time. It's not about shaming anyone. There are some talented players that get leap frogged in the depth chart and just can't handle it. I saw it when I played and I know it still happens now. In fact, I've seen two QBs get leap frogged in my time at UST, one was told he'd start at safety if he wanted, he quit. The other QB was told he could see playing time at TE and he stuck it out, and turned into a decent contributor at that spot. Same is true with ATB. REALLY, doubt Caruso called a kid and callously said, "don't bother showing up" anymore out of the blue. Especially knowing full well that a fair share of the reason the kid chose UST was to play football.

[Mr.MIAC]

I noticed no comment on the biggest factor mentioned, ego.  There is an "I" in family.

I'll use a bit of folksy to make this point: "It's like the pot calling the kettle black." Nearly all top ranked coaches have sizable egos; their egotism is just presented differently. For example, though the "I" in family thing is a stretch, one can't help but notice another MIAC team literally has the number "1" imbedded in its logo.   

[DuffMan]

...one can't help but notice another MIAC team literally has the number "1" imbedded in its logo.

Yeah, since the coaching staff had anything to do with the logo design. 

[Mr.MIAC]

...one can't help but notice another MIAC team literally has the number "1" imbedded in its logo.

Yeah, since the coaching staff had anything to do with the logo design. 

Something tells me that a storied coach, known to walk on the water of Lake Sagatagan in the eyes of some, might have been able to influence a change over the many years.

[57Johnnie]

...one can't help but notice another MIAC team literally has the number "1" imbedded in its logo.

Yeah, since the coaching staff had anything to do with the logo design. 

Something tells me that a storied coach, known to walk on the water of Lake Sagatagan in the eyes of some, might have been able to influence a change over the many years.

Come on. Reverend, he was just there long enough to know where all the rocks were 

[RoyalsFan]

No, you're not seeing it. 8-2 Bethel with Augsburg & SJU losses is not the same as 8-2 Bethel with Warburg & SJU losses.

No argument there. But at 7-3 Bethel is basically automatically eliminated from the playoffs, where at 8-2 (regardless of who they lost to) they are at least still considered.

Does it stink to watch UST make the field after we beat them. Yep. But it is no longer apples to apples comparing Bethel and UST. They are 8-2 and we are 7-3.

But if UST and BU reversed their non conference opponents with UST losing to Wartburg and BU winning both games, then BU would be 8-2 and UST would be 7-3. Even if BU had just played a weaker team than Wartburg and beat them and UST played the same teams, they both would have been 8-2 and there is no doubt in my mind that BU would have been selected before UST because BU beat them head to head and head to head always wins when it comes to teams with identical records. I stand by my theory that a non conference win, regardless of who it is against, is still more important than losing to a ranked team when it comes to a Pool C bid.

[SagatagSam]

...one can't help but notice another MIAC team literally has the number "1" imbedded in its logo.

From Thom Woodward '70, the creator of the SJU#1 logo:

Part of my legacy over the decades is the SJU#1 logo that I designed some time ago. It was never meant to proclaim "WE ARE NUMBER ONE." It's meant to be a reminder that we need to strive to be Number One, to work to be the best ... in athletics ... in the classroom ... as an alumni association ... as sons and fathers and as husbands ... as employers and employees. It's like when we sing the "Johnnie Fight Song": Show the world what SJU can do.

For those that want the citation: Saint John's Magazine, Winter/Spring 2012 Issue, p. 41 (p. 43 of the digital publication in the link below)
http://issuu.com/csbsju/docs/2012_winter_spring_magazine

Just because I like to cite myself....

[SagatagSam]

I noticed no comment on the biggest factor mentioned, ego.  There is an "I" in family.

[DuffMan]

...one can't help but notice another MIAC team literally has the number "1" imbedded in its logo.

Yeah, that "1", it goes along with this.