FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Whitecarrera]

RoyalsFan --  The college rule for defensive back contact is nowhere close to the NFL rule that you describe. In fact, this might be one area where NFL and college rules are the farthest apart.

[retagent]

I've been as clear as I possibly can be. If you don't understand what I've written, I'm not going to try again. All I can say is "READ AND TRY TO COMPREHEND!"

[faunch]

I've been as clear as I possibly can be. If you don't understand what I've written, I'm not going to try again. All I can say is "READ AND TRY TO COMPREHEND!"

So what are you trying to say?  That a late hit and unessary roughness aren't the same thing?

[OzJohnnie]

I've been as clear as I possibly can be. If you don't understand what I've written, I'm not going to try again. All I can say is "READ AND TRY TO COMPREHEND!"

I would if you stopped yelling. *sniff*

[RoyalsFan]

RoyalsFan --  The college rule for defensive back contact is nowhere close to the NFL rule that you describe. In fact, this might be one area where NFL and college rules are the farthest apart.

Can you quote the college rule from a rule book? I tried finding the definition for illegal contact for college rules but couldn't find one. I did find the NFL definition of illegal contact.

[RoyalsFan]

RoyalsFan --  The college rule for defensive back contact is nowhere close to the NFL rule that you describe. In fact, this might be one area where NFL and college rules are the farthest apart.

After doing some research, it appears that in college there is no 5 yard penalty for illegal contact like there is in the pros. Any contact to receivers that is deemed to interfere with a receiver's ability to catch a pass is prohibited and interpreted as pass interference. Learned something new today. 

[OzJohnnie]

The 2015 NCAA football rulebook:

http://www.ncfafootball.com/resources/Rules/FR15.pdf

The potentially applicable rules:

Illegal Contact and Pass Interference
ARTICLE 8. a. During a down in which a legal forward pass crosses the neutral
zone, illegal contact by Team A and Team B players is prohibited from the time
the ball is snapped until it is touched by any player or an official (A.R. 7-3-8-II).
b. Offensive pass interference by a Team A player beyond the neutral zone
during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses the
neutral zone is contact that interferes with a Team B eligible player. It is
the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents. It is not
offensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-IV, V, X, XV and XVI):
1. When, after the snap, a Team A ineligible player immediately charges
and contacts an opponent at a point not more than one yard beyond the
neutral zone and maintains the contact for no more than three yards
beyond the neutral zone.
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona
fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either
team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-IX).
3. When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the area
where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player in
that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.

OR

Contact Interference
ARTICLE 9. a. Either Team A or Team B legally may interfere with opponents
behind the neutral zone.
b. Players of either team legally may interfere beyond the neutral zone after the
pass has been touched (A.R. 7-3-9-I).
c. Defensive players legally may contact opponents who have crossed the
neutral zone if the opponents are not in a position to receive a catchable
forward pass.
1. Those infractions that occur during a down in which a forward pass
crosses the neutral zone are pass interference infractions only if the
receiver had the opportunity to receive a catchable forward pass.
2. Those infractions that occur during a down in which a forward pass does
not cross the neutral zone are Rule 9-3-4 infractions and the penalty is
enforced from the previous spot.
d. Pass interference rules apply only during a down in which a legal forward
pass crosses the neutral zone (Rules 2-19-3 and 7-3-8-a, b and c).
e. Contact by Team B with an eligible receiver involving a personal foul that
interferes with the reception of a catchable pass may be ruled either as
pass interference or as a personal foul with the 15-yard penalty enforced
from the previous spot. Rule 7-3-8 is specific about contact during a pass.
However, if the interference involves an act that ordinarily would result in
disqualification, the fouling player must leave the game.
f. Physical contact is required to establish interference.
g. Each player has territorial rights, and incidental contact is ruled under
"attempt to reach...the pass'' in Rule 7-3-8. If opponents who are beyond
the line collide while moving toward the pass, a foul by one or both players
is indicated only if intent to impede the opponent is obvious. It is pass
interference only if a catchable forward pass is involved.
h. Pass interference rules do not apply after the pass has been touched
anywhere inbounds by an inbounds player or has touched an official. If an
opponent is fouled, the penalty is for the foul and not pass interference (A.R.
7-3-9-I).
i. After the pass has been touched, any player may execute a legal block
during the remaining flight of the pass.
j. Tackling or grasping a receiver or any other intentional contact before he
touches the pass is evidence that the tackler is disregarding the ball and is
therefore illegal.
k. Tackling or running into a receiver when a forward pass obviously is
underthrown or overthrown is disregarding the ball and is illegal. This is not
pass interference but a violation of Rule 9-1-12-a, which carries a penalty of
15 yards from the previous spot plus a first down. Flagrant offenders shall
be disqualified.

I don't see anything about a QB in or out of the pocket there.  But then this reads like a sexual depressant, not a football rulebook, so who knows what it means.

[OzJohnnie]

As to retatent's argument I can only find this in the pea soup:

Roughing the Passer—ARTICLE 9
Approved Ruling 9-1-9
I. After passer A17 releases the ball, B68 takes two strides and charges
into A17, showing no attempt to avoid contact. RULING: Roughing the
passer. The passer is a defenseless player who is vulnerable to injury and
must be fully protected. After taking two strides, B68 should be aware
that A17 has released the ball and be able to avoid contacting him.

So, did Martin's tackler take two strides or more after the ball's release?  That is the question.  No mention of a pocket in that rule.

[OzJohnnie]

BTW - I deserve positive karma for life for finding that crap.  You couldn't pay me enough to be a ref.

[Whitecarrera]

I don't have a rule book to quote but basically, in college and in high school, so long as the receiver has not reached a downfield position even with the defender, and so long as a pass has not been thrown beyond the LOS, then the receiver is no different than any blocker, and contact can be initiated by the defender any where on the field. There is no reference whatsoever to the five yard no contact rule in high school or college.

The five yard no contact rule was one of those things (like so many others) created by the NFL to serve as an offensive advantage and promote scoring. The way that pass interference is defined in the NFL is another example of this, as the rules are considerably different at each level.

All in all, the rules with regard to interference and allowable contact are most advantageous to the defense at the college level, with NFL rules most in favor of the offense.

[D O.C.]

So... how is the Johnnie basketball team?

[sjusection105]

So... how is the Johnnie basketball team?

4-0 to this point. They beat D2 St. Cloud State and two teams in your neck of the woods, Lewis & Clark and George Fox U. for whatever that is worth.

[hazzben]

I don't have a rule book to quote but basically, in college and in high school, so long as the receiver has not reached a downfield position even with the defender, and so long as a pass has not been thrown beyond the LOS, then the receiver is no different than any blocker, and contact can be initiated by the defender any where on the field. There is no reference whatsoever to the five yard no contact rule in high school or college.

The five yard no contact rule was one of those things (like so many others) created by the NFL to serve as an offensive advantage and promote scoring. The way that pass interference is defined in the NFL is another example of this, as the rules are considerably different at each level.

All in all, the rules with regard to interference and allowable contact are most advantageous to the defense at the college level, with NFL rules most in favor of the offense.

Yep, most LB's and DB's are coached to get 'hands on' a receiver as they run down the field. I.e. knock them off their route, shove them, etc. as much as possible before the ball is thrown.

I think the 5 yd rule, if memory serves, is basically the 'Mel Blount Rule.' Legend has it that he was so physically dominant and skilled at getting 'hands on' that opposing WR were basically incapable of running their routes. So they instituted the rule that after 5 yds, you couldn't contact a WR, even if the ball hadn't been thrown yet. I think I saw that on some NFL films tribute to him a few years back. Maybe one of those Top 10 best Corners ever deals...

[USTBench]

I don't have a rule book to quote but basically, in college and in high school, so long as the receiver has not reached a downfield position even with the defender, and so long as a pass has not been thrown beyond the LOS, then the receiver is no different than any blocker, and contact can be initiated by the defender any where on the field. There is no reference whatsoever to the five yard no contact rule in high school or college.

The five yard no contact rule was one of those things (like so many others) created by the NFL to serve as an offensive advantage and promote scoring. The way that pass interference is defined in the NFL is another example of this, as the rules are considerably different at each level.

All in all, the rules with regard to interference and allowable contact are most advantageous to the defense at the college level, with NFL rules most in favor of the offense.

Yep, most LB's and DB's are coached to get 'hands on' a receiver as they run down the field. I.e. knock them off their route, shove them, etc. as much as possible before the ball is thrown.

I think the 5 yd rule, if memory serves, is basically the 'Mel Blount Rule.' Legend has it that he was so physically dominant and skilled at getting 'hands on' that opposing WR were basically incapable of running their routes. So they instituted the rule that after 5 yds, you couldn't contact a WR, even if the ball hadn't been thrown yet. I think I saw that on some NFL films tribute to him a few years back. Maybe one of those Top 10 best Corners ever deals...

Bethel DBs used to beat you up all the way down the field. Asked the ref, "Is he allowed to do that after 5 yards?" Ref said, "That only applies on Sundays." But that was 2002

[sjusection105]

Yep, most LB's and DB's are coached to get 'hands on' a receiver as they run down the field. I.e. knock them off their route, shove them, etc. as much as possible before the ball is thrown.

I think the 5 yd rule, if memory serves, is basically the 'Mel Blount Rule.' Legend has it that he was so physically dominant and skilled at getting 'hands on' that opposing WR were basically incapable of running their routes. So they instituted the rule that after 5 yds, you couldn't contact a WR, even if the ball hadn't been thrown yet. I think I saw that on some NFL films tribute to him a few years back. Maybe one of those Top 10 best Corners ever deals...

Bethel DBs used to beat you up all the way down the field. Asked the ref, "Is he allowed to do that after 5 yards." Ref said, "That only applies on Sundays." But that was 2002

So what you're saying is you saw some game action in 2002.......