FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sjusection105]

Looks to me like he never released it from his hands.  Illegal snap.

Typically officials discuss trick plays with the coaching staff during pre-game so it's possible that Auggie felt this play would be allowed.

I'm under the impression you went to the source on this....GC 

[RoyalsFan]

It was good play design and perfect timing for the call. Not sure what happens if BU isn't sold out on the punt block, but that's the beauty of when they dialed this up.

That was cool.  Hard to believe that he picked up 70 yards on it, but very cool!

Not so hard to believe as Bethel had a punt block on so when the runner took the ball there were only a couple of Bethel defenders between him and the goal line and he had about 7 or 8 blockers to boot.

[OzJohnnie]

Didn't Gary pretty much say it was Alvord after the Hamline game?

Dunno.  I fell back asleep midway through the third quarter. 

In my defense, it's still frickin' early.  I start the year with a 4am game time for about three games, then Australia leaves daylight savings and I get a 5am game time, and now that the US has gone onto daylight savings I get a 6am game time starting this weekend.  Happy days.

[RoyalsFan]

Looks to me like he never released it from his hands.  Illegal snap.

Typically officials discuss trick plays with the coaching staff during pre-game so it's possible that Auggie felt this play would be allowed.

Possible, but you wouldn't have known that from the amount of time it took the officials to discuss the play afterwards which was over a minute.

Someone earlier argued that there was no wording that said the ball had to leave the center's hand 'during' the motion to snap the ball. It says 'in the motion' so I would say 'during' and 'in' represent the same thing. Since the center held the ball after completion of the snapping motion, then I would say the motion was over and agree that this was an illegal snap. Probably the reason no one has seen it before is because it isn't legal.    Good thing this play didn't affect the final outcome of the game. Now if this would have happened 2 years ago we would have had a huge controversy.

Edit: also found this: Additionally, a snap must be a continuous motion. If a center halts the snap motion, this draws the penalty of "illegal snap."

I take this to mean the ball has to leave the center's hand when the motion is completed. Since in this case he still had the ball and the motion was stopped, it should be an illegal snap.

[faunch]

Looks to me like he never released it from his hands.  Illegal snap.

Typically officials discuss trick plays with the coaching staff during pre-game so it's possible that Auggie felt this play would be allowed.

I'm under the impression you went to the source on this....GC 

No...I discussed it with our high school coach.  He said that in the pre-game meeting officials always ask each team (separately) if they might run any trick plays...essentially to prevent any issues during the game and so they are prepared for them.  I don't run into GC much during the football season and we rarely discuss football when I see him...discussions are kept pretty vanilla...which is a good thing.   

[DuffMan]

Not so hard to believe as Bethel had a punt block on so when the runner took the ball there were only a couple of Bethel defenders between him and the goal line and he had about 7 or 8 blockers to boot.

True, but there were several Royals that had a shot at him, and he wasn't exactly a speedy or shifty runner.

[faunch]

Not so hard to believe as Bethel had a punt block on so when the runner took the ball there were only a couple of Bethel defenders between him and the goal line and he had about 7 or 8 blockers to boot.

True, but there were several Royals that had a shot at him, and he wasn't exactly a speedy or shifty runner.

If you search Augsburg hudl they've got both of their fake punt clips up.

[AO]

Not so hard to believe as Bethel had a punt block on so when the runner took the ball there were only a couple of Bethel defenders between him and the goal line and he had about 7 or 8 blockers to boot.

True, but there were several Royals that had a shot at him, and he wasn't exactly a speedy or shifty runner.

If you search Augsburg hudl they've got both of their fake punt clips up.

Another way to watch the fake punt:  https://vid.me/U3u1

[art76]

If you search Augsburg hudl they've got both of their fake punt clips up.

Thanx Faunch - the second angle of the second fake punt seems to show that the center takes his hands off the ball and rests his elbows on his knees until the ball is taken by the low numbered guard (#47). So, you have a ball "hanging" in the air, not being touched by hand from the center and then taken by a player who is eligible to make the first touch after the snap. I'll have to admit, not orthodox, and full of risks, but I would deem it allowable under the current rules for NCAA football. (Not that I've read the manual, just the relevant parts that have been shared here in this discussion.)

[AO]

If you search Augsburg hudl they've got both of their fake punt clips up.

Thanx Faunch - the second angle of the second fake punt seems to show that the center takes his hands off the ball and rests his elbows on his knees until the ball is taken by the low numbered guard (#47). So, you have a ball "hanging" in the air, not being touched by hand from the center and then taken by a player who is eligible to make the first touch after the snap. I'll have to admit, not orthodox, and full of risks, but I would deem it allowable under the current rules for NCAA football. (Not that I've read the manual, just the relevant parts that have been shared here in this discussion.)

His hands are definitely still on the ball.  http://www.hudl.com/v/wEnYy 

[RoyalsFan]

Not so hard to believe as Bethel had a punt block on so when the runner took the ball there were only a couple of Bethel defenders between him and the goal line and he had about 7 or 8 blockers to boot.

True, but there were several Royals that had a shot at him, and he wasn't exactly a speedy or shifty runner.

There were only 2 Royals (the 2 that were back to return the punt) that had any reasonable shot at him. There was 1 other shortly after the line of scrimmage that got close but he had 2 blockers on him.

[RoyalsFan]

If you search Augsburg hudl they've got both of their fake punt clips up.

Thanx Faunch - the second angle of the second fake punt seems to show that the center takes his hands off the ball and rests his elbows on his knees until the ball is taken by the low numbered guard (#47). So, you have a ball "hanging" in the air, not being touched by hand from the center and then taken by a player who is eligible to make the first touch after the snap. I'll have to admit, not orthodox, and full of risks, but I would deem it allowable under the current rules for NCAA football. (Not that I've read the manual, just the relevant parts that have been shared here in this discussion.)

So the ball is just 'hanging' in the air behind the center's butt for someone to grab?  Good one. 

[art76]

His hands are definitely still on the ball.  http://www.hudl.com/v/wEnYy 

Not sure I agree. If #47 is a player allowed to receive the snap, then the center holding on to the ball is moot. If #47 is not allowed to because he is inside a tackle on the line, then the illegality of the play is an incorrectly numbered guard. Could a tight-end run behind the center and take the ball? Or a declared eligible tackle? It's a trick play, and it did just what it was supposed to - fool everyone, including the officials at the time.

Perhaps more of you have other takes on it?

[RoyalsFan]

His hands are definitely still on the ball.  http://www.hudl.com/v/wEnYy 

Not sure I agree. If #47 is a player allowed to receive the snap, then the center holding on to the ball is moot. If #47 is not allowed to because he is inside a tackle on the line, then the illegality of the play is an incorrectly numbered guard. Could a tight-end run behind the center and take the ball? Or a declared eligible tackle? It's a trick play, and it did just what it was supposed to - fool everyone, including the officials at the time.

Perhaps more of you have other takes on it?

Not sure how you can argue that the center doesn't have his hand on the ball. The ball doesn't just suspend itself in mid air like that. But as far as your point whether #47 is allowed to receive the snap, anyone is eligible to receive a snap, AFAIK. But the rules state the center has to complete the snap with the snapping motion. Completing the snap means transferring the ball to another person, and in this case the snapping motion had completed and the center was still holding the ball.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Must be a slow news week in the MIAC.