FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[USTBench]

Any Tommie$ making the trek to TX?

Maybe next year when the title game is in Shenandoah.

[Toby Taff]

Any Tommie$ making the trek to TX?

Maybe next year when the title game is in Shenandoah.

yall should make the trip. perfect football weather this weekend. Sunny and low seventies. Besides it's pretty much a straight shot down I 35. 

[USTBench]

Any Tommie$ making the trek to TX?

Maybe next year when the title game is in Shenandoah.

yall should make the trip. perfect football weather this weekend. Sunny and low seventies. Besides it's pretty much a straight shot down I 35. 

I should probably get going then.

I've wanted to see the "CRUthedral" since it opened, but afraid that won't be in the cards this year. Wouldn't be surprised if Caruso sees it and spearheads a renovation of grandstand on Cretin and Summit.

[miac952]

Welcome aboard Flynntown. I appreciated the Ole Texas thought process behind trying to be creative to improve things, but I, like you, saw some glaring issues with what was put forth.

1. For running clock, as noted about Rock Chalk and the Horned Frogs, both coaches have to agree. In both CSS and Um Ya Ya's case neither coach wanted to go that route.

2. Athletic / Academic - UST has elevated their admissions and academic standard to a greater degree than the athletic growth in the last 5 years. It's not an "or" statement. Pardon my PJ Fleck, but you can be ELITE at both. Just this year we had qualifiers like CWRU, RPI, Hopkins, IWU, and Chapman in NCAA football playoffs. All have academic profiles that meet or exceed the Ole's, Mac, and Carleton. All would wipe the floor with those 3 noted. Wash U, Williams, and Amherst are perennial powers in hoops too. You can be both. St Olaf was both when Meidt was in town. We are only a decade removed from that.

3. Neither UST or SJU has even come close to dominating the sport of football on a national scale yet. There hasn't been a national title from the conference 15 or so years ago, and UST's two recent Stagg appearances showed a gap between them and Mount Union.

4. There is no option to pick and choose sports that go D1 vs. D2 vs. D3. That option was thrown away by the NCAA with those that do it in Hockey and Lacrosse grandfathered in. Its all or nothing, and it would completely change the face and identity of the athletic program and University due to Title IX and funding scholarship and facility upgrades. Multiple sports would be gashed overnight.

5. There is domination in just about every MIAC sport out there. See Gustavus tennis, Augsburg wrestling, UST track, SJU golf Carleton Frolf  , Macalester quidditch  . Why make massive adjustments off of 1 sport, when it exists in all? I recognize football is king, but its D3, no one is making money on this venture, even SJU and its gaudy attendance numbers.

Let's move some guardrails and see where we can go. Increase travel rosters, maybe cap overall rosters, force running time, etc.

[wm4]

Any Tommie$ making the trek to TX?

Heck yeah, can't wait!

[jamtod]

Any Tommie$ making the trek to TX?

I wish. Wife would probably frown upon that, seeing as I just got back (with one of the kids at least) from Oregon last night. Somebody asked her if I was going and she laughed.
Might host a little watch party though.

[Gregory Sager]

Interesting article on the MIAC: https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2017/11/miac-without-mercy-can-minnesota-intercollegiate-athletic-conference-solve-its-footba

I am dumber for having read Mr. Joel Stegner's comment.

I'm dumber for letting you sucker me into looking at what you were referring to. 

That article was just bad on so many levels.  St. Olaf got throttled a few weeks ago.  I was not happy with both St. Olaf and St. Thomas, but I have to remember that St. Olaf used to win by some of those scores years ago.  The biggest issue I had with that game was the final score.  The one that happens on second down with 7 seconds to go.  There is this thing called taking a knee.  It was clear that St. Thomas just wanted to make a statement, and they did.

I would like to address a few issues.  First of all there are options when it comes to blowouts and time.  The length of the quarters can be shortened.  I think Clemson did that a few years ago.  There is also the option to play with a running clock.  That was used this year with KU and TCU.  KU's offensive coordinator had the same position at TCU last year.  There were options.  I do think the road rosters need to expanded.  That has been an issue for years.  I assume part of it is travel and facilities, but other than a few trips I don't think that is a huge issue.

The MIAC has had athletic/academic issues for decades now.  There is a reason why Mac doesn't play football in the MIAC.  Part of it deals with the priorities of each individual school.  We have those that want build their reputation with academics which is great.  There are also those that build their reputation through athletics which is hard to argue especially when they are national television and receive other attention for those accomplishments.  The issue in the MIAC is that this divide is getting bigger, and there are few solutions.  If 3 schools leave the MIAC for football the conference loses its AQ status.  Hockey and other sports would also suffer.  There are schools that would love to join the MIAC, and Mac could return under certain conditions.  St. Olaf and Carleton have been in other Midwest Conference which is an option, but the travel costs and stresses on the students would be tough.  It is also important to note that graduate programs in the MIAC are increasing while the MIAC remains one of the few conferences to not allow for graduate students.

Moving up to a different division presents some challenges.  St. Thomas has the enrollment if you want to use that number.  They have more students than about 15% of the FBS schools.  Their issue might be facilities.  Those would need some serious upgrades especially with a school that is pretty well landlocked when it comes to space.  There are also other costs that would likely come with a move for them that might make it a challenge.  St. John's has an issue when it comes to enrollment.  Even doubling the enrollment or adding the St. Ben's enrollment to get a comparable number it is still relatively small.  I don't they they would have the same issue with the facilities as St. Thomas.  Ideally the two schools would stay in the same conference, but what level.  There are some sports that are not supported at the D2 level so they would likely have to go D1 in those.  That is not a huge issue.  There is also the option of FCS, but I am not sure that is viable in the immediate.  Then we add Title IX issues which would present another set of complex problems.  The final question is whether or not either school has the money and desire to spend it that would be required to make that move.

TexasOle, Your statement that St. Thomas has more students than all but 15% of FBS schools is ridiculously incorrect. St. Thomas has 6,200 undergrads, according to its own website. That number would make UST the 7th smallest FBS school, out of 130, ahead of only the three service academies, plus the University of Tulsa, Rice and Wake Forest. I think any conversation about UST going to the FBS is ludicrous in the first place and not worth anyone's time. But, I couldn't just let your baseless statement go uncorrected.

You misread TexasOle's post, Flynntowne. He said that St. Thomas has "more students than about 15% of the FBS schools." You read that the exact opposite way, claiming that he said that UST "has more students than all but 15% of FBS schools" in your reply. In other words, Texas Ole said that UST would be on the low end of FBS undergrad enrollment -- not, as you read it, on the high end.

[miac952]

Really wish I could go this weekend. Would have been fun to pair it up with some time in Austin or head to the other TX football mecca and see the Big 12 title game at Jerry-World (same kickoff time unfortunately though). But, alas, its not in the cards with some kids events and holiday work stuff popping up.

With the new palace did MHB every try to make a play for the Stagg? Its already going to be in TX, and MHB has a lot going for it with multiple airports, a couple of large cities nearby and being a warm weather destination. Maybe the NCAA didn't want an actual D3 campus as the host, but I am curious.

[sjusection105]

I've wanted to see the "CRUthedral" since it opened, but afraid that won't be in the cards this year. Wouldn't be surprised if Caruso sees it and spearheads a renovation of the crumbling, health department condemned grandstand on Cretin and Summit.

There, I fixed it for you.
It's about time somebody took the bull by the horns on that place..... 

[Flynntowne]

Interesting article on the MIAC: https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2017/11/miac-without-mercy-can-minnesota-intercollegiate-athletic-conference-solve-its-footba

I am dumber for having read Mr. Joel Stegner's comment.

I'm dumber for letting you sucker me into looking at what you were referring to. 

That article was just bad on so many levels.  St. Olaf got throttled a few weeks ago.  I was not happy with both St. Olaf and St. Thomas, but I have to remember that St. Olaf used to win by some of those scores years ago.  The biggest issue I had with that game was the final score.  The one that happens on second down with 7 seconds to go.  There is this thing called taking a knee.  It was clear that St. Thomas just wanted to make a statement, and they did.

I would like to address a few issues.  First of all there are options when it comes to blowouts and time.  The length of the quarters can be shortened.  I think Clemson did that a few years ago.  There is also the option to play with a running clock.  That was used this year with KU and TCU.  KU's offensive coordinator had the same position at TCU last year.  There were options.  I do think the road rosters need to expanded.  That has been an issue for years.  I assume part of it is travel and facilities, but other than a few trips I don't think that is a huge issue.

The MIAC has had athletic/academic issues for decades now.  There is a reason why Mac doesn't play football in the MIAC.  Part of it deals with the priorities of each individual school.  We have those that want build their reputation with academics which is great.  There are also those that build their reputation through athletics which is hard to argue especially when they are national television and receive other attention for those accomplishments.  The issue in the MIAC is that this divide is getting bigger, and there are few solutions.  If 3 schools leave the MIAC for football the conference loses its AQ status.  Hockey and other sports would also suffer.  There are schools that would love to join the MIAC, and Mac could return under certain conditions.  St. Olaf and Carleton have been in other Midwest Conference which is an option, but the travel costs and stresses on the students would be tough.  It is also important to note that graduate programs in the MIAC are increasing while the MIAC remains one of the few conferences to not allow for graduate students.

Moving up to a different division presents some challenges.  St. Thomas has the enrollment if you want to use that number.  They have more students than about 15% of the FBS schools.  Their issue might be facilities.  Those would need some serious upgrades especially with a school that is pretty well landlocked when it comes to space.  There are also other costs that would likely come with a move for them that might make it a challenge.  St. John's has an issue when it comes to enrollment.  Even doubling the enrollment or adding the St. Ben's enrollment to get a comparable number it is still relatively small.  I don't they they would have the same issue with the facilities as St. Thomas.  Ideally the two schools would stay in the same conference, but what level.  There are some sports that are not supported at the D2 level so they would likely have to go D1 in those.  That is not a huge issue.  There is also the option of FCS, but I am not sure that is viable in the immediate.  Then we add Title IX issues which would present another set of complex problems.  The final question is whether or not either school has the money and desire to spend it that would be required to make that move.

TexasOle, Your statement that St. Thomas has more students than all but 15% of FBS schools is ridiculously incorrect. St. Thomas has 6,200 undergrads, according to its own website. That number would make UST the 7th smallest FBS school, out of 130, ahead of only the three service academies, plus the University of Tulsa, Rice and Wake Forest. I think any conversation about UST going to the FBS is ludicrous in the first place and not worth anyone's time. But, I couldn't just let your baseless statement go uncorrected.

You misread TexasOle's post, Flynntowne. He said that St. Thomas has "more students than about 15% of the FBS schools." You read that the exact opposite way, claiming that he said that UST "has more students than all but 15% of FBS schools" in your reply. In other words, Texas Ole said that UST would be on the low end of FBS undergrad enrollment -- not, as you read it, on the high end.

After re-reading Texas Ole's post, I see that you are correct, Mr. Sager; I misread Texas Ole's statement comparing the size of UST's enrollment to the enrollments of FBS schools. I therefore apologize to Texas Ole for saying his statement was "ridiculously incorrect."  The statement was still incorrect, but not to the extent I had read it to be. For example, based on the list of FBS school enrollments I had found, St. Thomas had more undergraduate students than only six FBS schools. That would have meant that St. Thomas had more students than only about 4.6% of FBS schools, not 15%. Even adding in St. Thomas' 4,200 graduate students would not have propelled UST ahead of 15% of the FBS schools on that list. Nevertheless, I did misread Texas Ole's post and I am sorry for my mistake.

[DFWCrufan]

Really wish I could go this weekend. Would have been fun to pair it up with some time in Austin or head to the other TX football mecca and see the Big 12 title game at Jerry-World (same kickoff time unfortunately though). But, alas, its not in the cards with some kids events and holiday work stuff popping up.

With the new palace did MHB every try to make a play for the Stagg? Its already going to be in TX, and MHB has a lot going for it with multiple airports, a couple of large cities nearby and being a warm weather destination. Maybe the NCAA didn't want an actual D3 campus as the host, but I am curious.

Shenandoah is not too far from the UMHB campus all things considered, but you also have HSU just a few hours away and Trinity and Southwestern not too far as well so I think the idea of hosting at a schools location would appear biased. But I can say alot of D3 programs would probably be represented in the stands and (I hope) on the field in Shenandoah. I had the crazy Idea of NCAA pushing to host it at The Star, the Cowboys training facility which is about the same occupancy of the Cruthedral, and the current stadium in Virginia as I understand, but it's all indoors. 20 Minutes from DFW Airport, major lodging and dining plus all the other amenities in the mid cities, Dallas and north to take in. All the media outlets have the state of the art equipment already installed so no ESPN Convoy to deal with. Who knows maybe in 4 years this could happen. Right now local HS play there, and many of the mid cities HS play in ATT stadium for playoffs now so if it is good enough for HS then it should be good enough for D3.

[DFWCrufan]

St. Thomas fans you have a hell of a program, I've followed St. T from a distance for 4 years now and have alot of respect for your coach and what he has built, I believe this is going the be the game of the year(Yeah Tommie/ Johnnie is big) But if you can't make the trip there is always the feed, and if you catch Jon and Coach you will find they are excellent in their play by calls and balance things out nicely. I hope to see ya'll there though and if you have questions about local issues ask away.
Safe travels...and welcome to Belton

[wally_wabash]

St. Thomas fans you have a hell of a program, I've followed St. T from a distance for 4 years now and have alot of respect for your coach and what he has built, I believe this is going the be the game of the year(Yeah Tommie/ Johnnie is big) But if you can't make the trip there is always the feed, and if you catch Jon and Coach you will find they are excellent in their play by calls and balance things out nicely. I hope to see ya'll there though and if you have questions about local issues ask away.
Safe travels...and welcome to Belton

You'll love the UMHB feed, especially if you like a little live action with your scoreboard. 

[Mr.MIAC]

Damn it's slow over here. Nothing like the Ohio board. Where are the Johnnies when you need them?

[jamtod]

Damn it's slow over here. Nothing like the Ohio board. Where are the Johnnies when you need them?

I guess they disappeared soon after their season ended. It's a shame they had to go out so early in the playoffs.