FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[MiacMan]

That makes sense but with SJU remaining D3 how will U$T ever fill an extra 16,000 seats. And would all the games be considered home games or off campus home games?
I think Allianz is privately funded with a few massive tax breaks. The city of St. Paul can't even build decent youth softball and baseball fields and they don't even maintain those they currently have.

Isn't that the truth!

[MiacMan]

I don't think the United would be too excited about sharing their grass field with a football team on a full-time basis, but maybe a game or two a year?  FC Dallas hosts a bunch of high school football games at their MLS stadium but it's a bit easier to maintain the grass there. -AO

Give it 4-5yrs, with the novelty of a new stadium gone, no parking to speak of and fans forced to use light-rail to get to the games, they'll be begging for some fools to share the burden. This should all time up perfectly for UST. 

[57Johnnie]

GRILLED CHEESE DAY! 

WOW

[MiacMan]

IMO, it's not necessarily the cheese (however, I prefer colby-jack) but it's the bread. English Muffin Bread buttered on both sides is an absolute must for a great grilled cheese.

[art76]

Favre speaks out - what do you all think of this? http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/children-should-not-be-playing-tackle-football-says-packers-great-brett-favre-as-he-fears-he-may-have-cte-after-suffering-thousands-of-concussions/ar-AAvOf01?ocid=ientp

[OzJohnnie]

Favre speaks out - what do you all think of this? http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/children-should-not-be-playing-tackle-football-says-packers-great-brett-favre-as-he-fears-he-may-have-cte-after-suffering-thousands-of-concussions/ar-AAvOf01?ocid=ientp

I think people have gone over the top on concussions.

[miac952]

I don't see a good reason for football to start in pads in 3rd and 4th grade. I look back to my high school and college and a large crop of our best players started in 9th or 10th grade.

You can accomolish quite a bit of fundamental development with active and physical 7 on 7 or 9 on 9 flag at young ages. Put kids in pads in 7th grade and they will have two full years before entering high school.

Half of the scores in a 4th grade offed football game are just running toss sweeps to th fastest kid on the field and him hitting the edge for a touchdown. I don't know that anyone is developing much in that scenario.

It's a tough one. I get that they are staring football young because other sports young, they don't want to lose athletes. But, if robust 7 v 7 or 9 v 9 flag leagues grow the sport should be fine until it hits pads in middle school.

[art76]

I think people have gone over the top on concussions.

For myself, I'm a bit torn. Neither of my boys were interested in playing, so I never had to deal with it too much. My younger son played both basketball and soccer through high school, but those are "non-contact" sports, right? Both my daughter and younger son were "tree climbers", hence they tumbled more than once (slow learners, I guess) to the ground because - gravity. But we got all the way through college with all three kids without any broken bones or stitches.

When I played through high school and college, I ended up with numerous injuries, broken bones and stitches included. It just went with the territory. No body made me go on the field. However, if we curbed full contact until, say 10th grade, would it really change the college or pro games by any significant degree? I doubt it. But I think that's an uphill battle and a hill I am not willing to die on.

I know some of you have different experiences and vantage points because you are closer to the game at the younger levels than I ever was or will be. Perhaps you would be willing to share some of your wisdom garnered over the years.

[OzJohnnie]

I just reckon that concussion policy (and public perception) is being based on fear rather than prudent risk assessment.  Essentially, the argument is that the effects are unknown, brains may be hurt, consequences are therefore infinite.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised since risk assessment is rarely rational.

Your odds of drowning in the backyard pool are greater than dying in a plane crash.  Which activity is considered riskier?  In fact, you're more likely to die climbing a ladder than by flying.  Who would pick it?

I think the risks of concussion are, if even significant, only with those who live extreme high impact lives like, oh, I don't know, NFL quarterbacks.  If only they received some sort of outrageous compensation in the profession they have choosen rather than working for the relative pittance the rest of us earn.  Kids have been rough and tumble for about 200,000 years and yet the human race survives.  Put the cotton wool away and let the kids have some fun.

After we shut down sport because it hurts, then make sure we stop construction work, the single most dangerous occupation.  And then all the health care workers can go home - that's number two.  Then loggers in third place.  Then factory workers.  Then miners.

Wait, I'm sure we'll get to multi-millionaire professional sportsmen soon enough.  Let me keep looking at the list.

Pilots.  Nope.
Farmers.  Sheesh. It's soon, it must be.
Law enforcement.  Dang.  Not even in the top 10.  The poor babies.

Pansies.

[miac952]

There is a lot of unknown left to be researched on the impact of concussions and repeated head contact developing in to CTE.

I don't think it's illogical though to assume that when a kids skull is still soft and their brain can rattle more easily that it could have some lasting impacts. That's why I wonder if it makes sense to start kids in pads a little later.

I hope we aren't seeing the demise of a great sport and it goes the way of boxing two decades. Being proactive at youth levels might alleviate that.

The other big ? beyond concussions seems to be what far less severe repeated head trauma can do. There is some research that it can be even more damaging than a concussion itself. The soccer player that accumulates 1,000+ headers comes to mind. If that becomes a more known problem then goes well beyond the sport of football.

CTE and football seem to be blamed for everything these days though. The Aaron Hernandez case is the most extreme example of it. If a kid is cutting heads off neighborhood pets at 8 years old, and continues escalating that type of behavior all the way in to his adult life, I would like to believe CTE had less to do with his demise vs him just being mentally unstable terrible human since his youth.

[Robert Zimmerman]

I just reckon that concussion policy (and public perception) is being based on fear rather than prudent risk assessment.  Essentially, the argument is that the effects are unknown, brains may be hurt, consequences are therefore infinite.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised since risk assessment is rarely rational.

Your odds of drowning in the backyard pool are greater than dying in a plane crash.  Which activity is considered riskier?  In fact, you're more likely to die climbing a ladder than by flying.  Who would pick it?

I think the risks of concussion are, if even significant, only with those who live extreme high impact lives like, oh, I don't know, NFL quarterbacks.  If only they received some sort of outrageous compensation in the profession they have choosen rather than working for the relative pittance the rest of us earn.  Kids have been rough and tumble for about 200,000 years and yet the human race survives.  Put the cotton wool away and let the kids have some fun.

After we shut down sport because it hurts, then make sure we stop construction work, the single most dangerous occupation.  And then all the health care workers can go home - that's number two.  Then loggers in third place.  Then factory workers.  Then miners.

Wait, I'm sure we'll get to multi-millionaire professional sportsmen soon enough.  Let me keep looking at the list.

Pilots.  Nope.
Farmers.  Sheesh. It's soon, it must be.
Law enforcement.  Dang.  Not even in the top 10.  The poor babies.

Pansies.

Oz, you must have had a good psychology teacher in high school.  Great example of the availability heuristic! 

My 4th grader has played youth football in Sartell (probably the same league that spawned Duffman) the last 2 years and the 3rd/4th grade league has played with pads.  He absolutely loved it.  No one really gets hit hard, lots of arm tackling and jersey grabbing.  However, we just were notified by the board that the 3rd and 4th grade level is moving away from pads.  I don't care either way, but my 4th grader was really glad he got to play tackle football in 3rd and 4th grade.  Sartell youth football will now start in pads in the 5th/6th grade league, which is what St. Cloud, Sauk Rapids, Rocori, etc . . . have been doing.

[OzJohnnie]

No, but I bet some kids in Sartell (or do you teach at Avalon?) do.

[DuffMan]

(probably the same league that spawned Duffman)

I actually didn't play football until 8th grade!

[MiacMan]

I just reckon that concussion policy (and public perception) is being based on fear rather than prudent risk assessment.  Essentially, the argument is that the effects are unknown, brains may be hurt, consequences are therefore infinite.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised since risk assessment is rarely rational.

Your odds of drowning in the backyard pool are greater than dying in a plane crash.  Which activity is considered riskier?  In fact, you're more likely to die climbing a ladder than by flying.  Who would pick it?

I think the risks of concussion are, if even significant, only with those who live extreme high impact lives like, oh, I don't know, NFL quarterbacks.  If only they received some sort of outrageous compensation in the profession they have choosen rather than working for the relative pittance the rest of us earn.  Kids have been rough and tumble for about 200,000 years and yet the human race survives.  Put the cotton wool away and let the kids have some fun.

After we shut down sport because it hurts, then make sure we stop construction work, the single most dangerous occupation.  And then all the health care workers can go home - that's number two.  Then loggers in third place.  Then factory workers.  Then miners.

Wait, I'm sure we'll get to multi-millionaire professional sportsmen soon enough.  Let me keep looking at the list.

Pilots.  Nope.
Farmers.  Sheesh. It's soon, it must be.
Law enforcement.  Dang.  Not even in the top 10.  The poor babies.

Pansies.

Oz, you must have had a good psychology teacher in high school.  Great example of the availability heuristic! 

My 4th grader has played youth football in Sartell (probably the same league that spawned Duffman) the last 2 years and the 3rd/4th grade league has played with pads.  He absolutely loved it.  No one really gets hit hard, lots of arm tackling and jersey grabbing.  However, we just were notified by the board that the 3rd and 4th grade level is moving away from pads.  I don't care either way, but my 4th grader was really glad he got to play tackle football in 3rd and 4th grade.  Sartell youth football will now start in pads in the 5th/6th grade league, which is what St. Cloud, Sauk Rapids, Rocori, etc . . . have been doing.

All great points (Oz, Zim and 952) and I agree with all. I've coached for a long time at all levels including the early youth ages. The little kids (3rd/4th graders) don't really hit. They very rarely come off with head aches. If so it's typically because their helmet is too tight and or just are not used to wearing it. The biggest injury at that level is getting the wind knocked out you. That being said, Parents would always come to me ask when they should start their kid in football? My typical answer was when your kid shows interest and asks to play. Football just might be the only team sport that can be picked up at the 9th/10th grade level. There are really no specific skills that need to be honed throughout childhood. Basketball you need to hone ball handling and shooting skills, baseball eye-hand type skills like hitting and catching, hockey is obvious, soccer the same ball handling skills only with your feet. Football if you are either big or fast/quick and you have watched a few games, you can play. Athletic kids can play football.

For the sake of supporting/promoting the game, I believe the route of touch/flag football for the young kids is probably the way to go. If nothing else but to get the "Moms" on board. Maybe it should be flag football in "uppers" This would give young kids the feel of being a real football player while getting them acclimated to the helmet and shoulder pads. Stay-on-your-feet blocking/contact could be included here as well. Anyway, you get the picture, something does need to be done because football will become extinct if not. 

[miac952]

Football's advantage, is as you noted MiacMan. It is the least time consuming sport of all of the team based sports at a young age.

We have an 8 year old, and they started the process this year in soccer for invites for full evaluations, a $1000 commitment from parents, and a 3 season program that runs November - July. That's ludicrous. Hockey is obviously the same. Basketball and Baseball follow behind a few years, with a slightly lower threshold.

You can sign your kid up for football over 8-10 weeks and move on to the next sport. Maybe throw in a summer camp put on by your local HS. That is great.