FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[DuffMan]

MiacMan, did Rev hack your password? 

[MiacMan]

MiacMan, did Rev hack your password? 

Keep in mind I was well connected in the inner workings there for over 6 years. Don't know for sure what their plans are currently but I know what they were. 

[MiacMan]

MiacMan, did Rev hack your password? 

Keep in mind I was well connected in the inner workings there for over 6 years. Don't know for sure what their plans are currently but I know what they were. 

Besides if it were Rev, it would be much more obnoxious and would involve some sort of rip on SJU. 

[sjusection105]

Every time this "UST should go D2 or D1" thing comes up it seems silly to me to even consider.

To me it's not "could they" but more so "why would they?"

What would be the point?  What is there to gain?

Thanks for taking my call. I'll hang up and listen. 

Because since the beginning of time (When UST was founded) they have wanted to follow the Notre Dame model. I know for a fact they believe (or did believe at one point) their next step would be a Medical School closely followed by D1 athletics. The whole thing is really not about athletics but D1 athletics is just a part of the blue print. It's a big picture thing with the entire institution. The end game is a Notre Dame but, the next step is a Villanova, Seton Hall, or Miami of Ohio.

Are they going to relocate their campus or buy the entire neighborhood? We all know how well an off campus venue for any sport goes as far as student support. Heck SJU gets about 30 students when the temps drop below 40 degrees. If they had to get on a bus for a game on a nice warm fall day it may be like that the entire season. Proximity is key to getting student support. Two D1 programs in the Twin Cities would be a hard sell with all the Pro options, but then again the Gophers can't sell out with no other D1 programs in town. Some would argue there isn't a D1 program in the Twin Cities currently 

[AO]

Every time this "UST should go D2 or D1" thing comes up it seems silly to me to even consider.

To me it's not "could they" but more so "why would they?"

What would be the point?  What is there to gain?

Thanks for taking my call. I'll hang up and listen. 

Because since the beginning of time (When UST was founded) they have wanted to follow the Notre Dame model. I know for a fact they believe (or did believe at one point) their next step would be a Medical School closely followed by D1 athletics. The whole thing is really not about athletics but D1 athletics is just a part of the blue print. It's a big picture thing with the entire institution. The end game is a Notre Dame but, the next step is a Villanova, Seton Hall, or Miami of Ohio.

Are they going to relocate their campus or buy the entire neighborhood? We all know how well an off campus venue for any sport goes as far as student support. Heck SJU gets about 30 students when the temps drop below 40 degrees. If they had to get on a bus for a game on a nice warm fall day it may be like that the entire season. Proximity is key to getting student support. Two D1 programs in the Twin Cities would be a hard sell with all the Pro options, but then again the Gophers can't sell out with no other D1 programs in town. Some would argue there isn't a D1 program in the Twin Cities currently 

D1 FBS is a TV game, attendance is a much lower concern.  The MAC is playing games Tuesday through Thursday with what looks like 1200 people scattered around the stadium in the 2nd half.  The Gophers play on Thursdays at 6pm, Friday nights conflicting with HS football and Saturdays at 11am.  You wouldn't do any of those things if you really wanted to maximize attendance. 

Also, no need to buy the the entire neighboorhood, my 20,000 seat O'Shaughnessy Stadium renovation plan is still available to purchase. 

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

From a "what have you accomplished in Division III" standpoint UST is a much better candidate for D-II than, say, Frostburg. The school has swept the commissioner's cup/all-sports trophy in the MIAC in both men's and women's sports for the past 11 years and has a couple of MBB national titles and a baseball title in that span. Probably more but that's what I know offhand.

That said, of course, Division II is no place for anyone who plays ice hockey. You'd have to play D-I hockey or just give it up entirely as D-II hockey is essentially non-existent.

TWO baseball championship, not one....two softball national championships and one in volleyball and a boatload of MIAC titles in virtually every sport, both genders....not a bad run the past 20 season

Not in the past 11 years.

No, I said it was the past 20 years.

[sjusection105]

Every time this "UST should go D2 or D1" thing comes up it seems silly to me to even consider.

To me it's not "could they" but more so "why would they?"

What would be the point?  What is there to gain?

Thanks for taking my call. I'll hang up and listen. 

Because since the beginning of time (When UST was founded) they have wanted to follow the Notre Dame model. I know for a fact they believe (or did believe at one point) their next step would be a Medical School closely followed by D1 athletics. The whole thing is really not about athletics but D1 athletics is just a part of the blue print. It's a big picture thing with the entire institution. The end game is a Notre Dame but, the next step is a Villanova, Seton Hall, or Miami of Ohio.

Are they going to relocate their campus or buy the entire neighborhood? We all know how well an off campus venue for any sport goes as far as student support. Heck SJU gets about 30 students when the temps drop below 40 degrees. If they had to get on a bus for a game on a nice warm fall day it may be like that the entire season. Proximity is key to getting student support. Two D1 programs in the Twin Cities would be a hard sell with all the Pro options, but then again the Gophers can't sell out with no other D1 programs in town. Some would argue there isn't a D1 program in the Twin Cities currently 

D1 FBS is a TV game, attendance is a much lower concern.  The MAC is playing games Tuesday through Thursday with what looks like 1200 people scattered around the stadium in the 2nd half.  The Gophers play on Thursdays at 6pm, Friday nights conflicting with HS football and Saturdays at 11am.  You wouldn't do any of those things if you really wanted to maximize attendance. 

Also, no need to buy the the entire neighboorhood, my 20,000 seat O'Shaughnessy Stadium renovation plan is still available to purchase. 

What about hockey & equestrian events that I'm sure are required for the Ivy League of the North 

[57Johnnie]

Every time this "UST should go D2 or D1" thing comes up it seems silly to me to even consider.

To me it's not "could they" but more so "why would they?"

What would be the point?  What is there to gain?

Thanks for taking my call. I'll hang up and listen. 

Because since the beginning of time (When UST was founded) they have wanted to follow the Notre Dame model. I know for a fact they believe (or did believe at one point) their next step would be a Medical School closely followed by D1 athletics. The whole thing is really not about athletics but D1 athletics is just a part of the blue print. It's a big picture thing with the entire institution. The end game is a Notre Dame but, the next step is a Villanova, Seton Hall, or Miami of Ohio.

Are they going to relocate their campus or buy the entire neighborhood? We all know how well an off campus venue for any sport goes as far as student support. Heck SJU gets about 30 students when the temps drop below 40 degrees. If they had to get on a bus for a game on a nice warm fall day it may be like that the entire season. Proximity is key to getting student support. Two D1 programs in the Twin Cities would be a hard sell with all the Pro options, but then again the Gophers can't sell out with no other D1 programs in town. Some would argue there isn't a D1 program in the Twin Cities currently 

D1 FBS is a TV game, attendance is a much lower concern.  The MAC is playing games Tuesday through Thursday with what looks like 1200 people scattered around the stadium in the 2nd half.  The Gophers play on Thursdays at 6pm, Friday nights conflicting with HS football and Saturdays at 11am.  You wouldn't do any of those things if you really wanted to maximize attendance. 

Also, no need to buy the the entire neighboorhood, my 20,000 seat O'Shaughnessy Stadium renovation plan is still available to purchase. 

What about hockey & equestrian events that I'm sure are required for the Ivy League of the North 

To emulate the 'Fighting Irish', they could just move everything to Clontarf. 

[MiacMan]

Every time this "UST should go D2 or D1" thing comes up it seems silly to me to even consider.

To me it's not "could they" but more so "why would they?"

What would be the point?  What is there to gain?

Thanks for taking my call. I'll hang up and listen. 

Because since the beginning of time (When UST was founded) they have wanted to follow the Notre Dame model. I know for a fact they believe (or did believe at one point) their next step would be a Medical School closely followed by D1 athletics. The whole thing is really not about athletics but D1 athletics is just a part of the blue print. It's a big picture thing with the entire institution. The end game is a Notre Dame but, the next step is a Villanova, Seton Hall, or Miami of Ohio.

Are they going to relocate their campus or buy the entire neighborhood? We all know how well an off campus venue for any sport goes as far as student support. Heck SJU gets about 30 students when the temps drop below 40 degrees. If they had to get on a bus for a game on a nice warm fall day it may be like that the entire season. Proximity is key to getting student support. Two D1 programs in the Twin Cities would be a hard sell with all the Pro options, but then again the Gophers can't sell out with no other D1 programs in town. Some would argue there isn't a D1 program in the Twin Cities currently 

Well for starters, the Medical School would be located on a floor(s) or wing(s) of one of the local hospitals. At one time the Arch Diocese would not allow UST to start a nursing school because they didn't want it to compete with St. Catherine's for fear it wold put them out of business. I'm not sure what has happened since but clearly that has changed. It will be difficult for St. Kates to compete going forward (the nursing program was their biggest draw). It makes sense to think there might be some sort of merger under the UST umbrella between UST/St. Kates. This would open up a decent amount of real estate for the necessary expansion for this venture. Again, all theory and possibly not in my lifetime.

[USTBench]

Right now the NCAA doesn't let DIII member institutions jump directly from DIII to DI (which is dumb, when you consider there's some DI basketball commuter colleges that barely have a Wikipedia page). UST would have to make a pit stop in DII first which would kill any excitement around the athletic program. That's a 3 year transition period in which UST would be ineligible for playoff consideration in order to show the NCAA they "can handle" the complexities of DII athletics, which at this point, has the charm and atmosphere of an abandoned tire plant. Then, UST would be required to play DII for a minimum of 7 years before they could go DI. 10 years is a LONG time to mire in DII with no rivals, no fans, traveling to Aberdeen, Bismarck and Minot to play games. The only other Catholic school in the NSIC is the University of Mary, who I'm fairly confident, UST could beat by 50 with the team they have now. Nobody is going to get excited about that. So this would have to be BIG BIG BIG picture where, they sacrifice the next 10 years in order to go DI, then, it's ANOTHER 5 years of transitioning where you're playoff ineligible. By that time the entire college landscape will have completely changed.

One way, this would even be remotely worth it in the short term, is if SJU/CSB transitioned with UST at the same time, and that is just NOT going to happen. OR, if there's someway they can petition the NCAA to expedite the process using hockey as a carrot since there is no DII hockey. Basically saying: "Hey, waive this bylaw as it pertains to us, here's the $5 million or whatever required, and here's a hockey team that's ready for the WCHA now" which is not possible without an arena.

15 years ago this was THE debate in the Dakotas. NDSU, SDSU, USD and UND were all going to jump to DI at the same time. UND and USD chickened out at the last second and NDSU and SDSU made a leap of faith. It was quickly revealed that NDSU and SDSU made the right decision and UND was stuck playing UM-Crookston and SW Minnesota State, so it was inevitable what had to happen. UND had the added headache of the nickname, but after 15 years of bouncing around conferences and flying to California for conference games, they're finally back in a conference with the rest of the I-29 corridor. So, if you're going to do it, you might as well just rip off the bandaid and do it, but you've still got to know what to expect.

I don't really buy the argument that Minnesota or the Twin Cities couldn't support another DI program. Minnesota is the 22nd largest state by population in the union and only has 1 full-fledged D1, which is pretty dumb. The reason for this is that the Board of Regents won't allow more than one full-fledged D1, but UM-Duluth, Winona State and Minnesota State Mankato could easily play FCS and mid-major hoops. They're not any less equipped to do so than Western Illinois or Youngstown. I know everyone HATES the comparisons to the other D1 urban Catholics, so I'll spare you. But UST just needs to have an honest conversation about what D1 would LOOK like for them. Because it certainly won't be 60,000 people showing up on campus watch a football game. The days of building a program like that have been over for 100 years. It would probably look like UND athletics (flagshipping hockey and football), but they are massively deficient in facilities when compared to a school like UND.

UST would have to commit every marketing resource available towards keeping people genuinely excited about athletics for a decade while playing Upper Iowa and Wayne State, while simultaneously staying competitive, pacifying neighbors while somehow also reconfiguring their athletic facilities to be workable during the "DII era" and good enough for the "DI era."

Then there's the added headache where the NSIC already has 16 member institutions split into two divisions, so it's probably not even feasible for them to bring in UST unless another school joined, and then you have an 18 school conference. Which is crazy. Playing an independent Division II schedule through a transition until you find a conference that will take you would be a nightmare where you're filling out your schedule by playing a hodgepodge of FCS, NAIA and DIII teams, but scouring the country to find your required 6 DII games you have to play.

I get it, sometimes you just have to hold your nose and jump in like NDSU and SDSU did, but you should also have somewhat of an idea of what you're jumping into.

The problem is, I don't see UST staying in DIII as a long term workable alternative particularly either. If they want to be considered a "national university" of the big time urban Catholic brand, complete with a 10,000 student enrollment, business school, med school, law school and college of nursing, then I think bigger time (at least mid-major) athletics is probably also what they envision. UST doesn't really fit the mold of Washington University, Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon or Johns Hopkins either. UST needs to forge their own path, and I think that would mean  being the only Catholic school to flagship hockey (outside of maybe Boston College) and taking football as far is it can go, which is probably the MVFC in a decade or so, then hopefully joining the Summit League.

tl/dr: Who knows? 

[repete]

From a "what have you accomplished in Division III" standpoint UST is a much better candidate for D-II than, say, Frostburg. The school has swept the commissioner's cup/all-sports trophy in the MIAC in both men's and women's sports for the past 11 years and has a couple of MBB national titles and a baseball title in that span. Probably more but that's what I know offhand.

That said, of course, Division II is no place for anyone who plays ice hockey. You'd have to play D-I hockey or just give it up entirely as D-II hockey is essentially non-existent.

Makes sense. Thanks, Pat. Apparently I confused it with the D3/D1.

For the record, I'm with Duff.


All right.... now I know.

Not sure about this, but I thought the NCAA was no longer allowing additional schools to do the D1 pux/lax thing and stay D2 or D3. Weren't  schools such as Colorado College, RPI and UMD in hockey and JHU in lax grandfathered into that situation?

That's a D3/D1 thing. I'm not aware of there being a moratorium on new D2/D1 situations. Since there is no D2 hockey to speak of, I don't imagine the NCAA keeping people from being able to compete for a title in hockey the way what you suggest would imply.

[jamtod]

MIAC Awards Announced:
https://www.miacathletics.com/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20181115ohxdw1

Brinker, Erdmann, Fasching with the major awards for SJU.

[jamtod]

MIAC Awards Announced:
https://www.miacathletics.com/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20181115ohxdw1

Brinker, Erdmann, Fasching with the major awards for SJU.

Notable: Perra is nowhere to be found. Really fell off from early in the season.
Also, I think Franzese might be the only UST defensive player not listed on 1st, 2nd, or HM.

[AO]

MIAC Awards Announced:
https://www.miacathletics.com/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20181115ohxdw1

Brinker, Erdmann, Fasching with the major awards for SJU.

Notable: Perra is nowhere to be found. Really fell off from early in the season.
Also, I think Franzese might be the only UST defensive player not listed on 1st, 2nd, or HM.

I'm pretty sure the Honorable mention list is just 3 spots given to each team.  I don't think anyone really thought Justice Spriggs had a better year than Perra.

[Pat Coleman]

No, I said it was the past 20 years.

I know you did, but I said 11 and you corrected me like I was wrong, so I wanted to just clarify that you and I were talking about different things.