FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[wm4]

For years now St Thomas has been giving their top athletes full ride "leadership" scholarships that the smaller schools cannot afford to do and which is borderline illegal in D3 athletics.

....got a link there w that statement?

[Miacman4040]

Ive seen one with my own eyes. My friend's son was offered one. It isn't a full scholarship but it was 90 something percent tuition for showing "great leadership" in high school and that St Thomas wants leaders like you. It was very suspect.

[wm4]

So not a full ride, got it.

Yes, St Thomas gives scholarships to students, some of whom play sports. Nothing to see here.

[GoldandBlueBU]

So not a full ride, got it.

Yes, St Thomas gives scholarships to students, some of whom play sports. Nothing to see here.

[miac952]

Ive seen one with my own eyes. My friend's son was offered one. It isn't a full scholarship but it was 90 something percent tuition for showing "great leadership" in high school and that St Thomas wants leaders like you. It was very suspect.

Sounds like you may be referring to the Dease scholarship program. It's geared towards those in local communities where kids have shown leadership attributes in extra-curricular activities. The vast majority of those scholarships end up with non sport students and coaches have zero influence or say over the process. Furthermore it is also largely need and academic based. But go ahead and throw out baseless claims on the account of a single friends son. Makes sense. Since your an expert on the subject you would also know that scholarships in Division III are reported to governing bodies and they have to be consistent between athletes and non-athletes. Universities have been dinged for this in the past.

On a separate note no one seems to have a clear understanding of next steps other than the fact their is a meeting coming up with the Presidents. The lack of clarity is probably due to the unprecedented nature of booting out a founding member for being too good I suppose. Is it a majority vote, a unanimous vote? What are they voting on: outright removal, specific sports? Does Mac get to vote given their traitorous status? St Kate's and St Bens and St Johns all count as a whole vote? The devil is in the details and it has me quite curious. I've heard Augsburg or Gustavus as a tiebreaker? That would lend credence to majority, but then again I'm not sure anyone knows the process.

[OzJohnnie]

Great post, hazzben.  You've convinced me that UST must really think about this.  Do they want to be an MIAC school or not?  Neither choice is easy, and from the way you've put the points in your post and what UST have done (as highlighted by esq) staying in the MIAC may be the hardest thing for UST.

Very interesting.

[art76]

Would roster limits help parity?

Perhaps. St. John's opened camp last year with 40 more players than anyone else, followed by Concordia-Moorhead, then St. Thomas.

Allowing more players to dress on the road would probably help as well, as it's hard for a MIAC team to travel any third-stringers.

Pat, I'm guessing this discussion and the results of the vote will be in the next podcast. But before that, can you lend any insight into other D3 conferences that have had to deal with this - or is this a first time kind of thingy?

[OldAuggie]

I bet this guy never heard of UST or the MIAC. He could not care less if they kicked out the Tommies. 

[MiacMan]

Ive seen one with my own eyes. My friend's son was offered one. It isn't a full scholarship but it was 90 something percent tuition for showing "great leadership" in high school and that St Thomas wants leaders like you. It was very suspect.

Sounds like you may be referring to the Dease scholarship program. It's geared towards those in local communities where kids have shown leadership attributes in extra-curricular activities. The vast majority of those scholarships end up with non sport students and coaches have zero influence or say over the process. Furthermore it is also largely need and academic based. But go ahead and throw out baseless claims on the account of a single friends son. Makes sense. Since your an expert on the subject you would also know that scholarships in Division III are reported to governing bodies and they have to be consistent between athletes and non-athletes. Universities have been dinged for this in the past.

On a separate note no one seems to have a clear understanding of next steps other than the fact their is a meeting coming up with the Presidents. The lack of clarity is probably due to the unprecedented nature of booting out a founding member for being too good I suppose. Is it a majority vote, a unanimous vote? What are they voting on: outright removal, specific sports? Does Mac get to vote given their traitorous status? St Kate's and St Bens and St Johns all count as a whole vote? The devil is in the details and it has me quite curious. I've heard Augsburg or Gustavus as a tiebreaker? That would lend credence to majority, but then again I'm not sure anyone knows the process.

My sources have told me that all 13 schools get an equal vote (9-football schools, Mac, SMU, St. Ben's and St.Kates). They need 9 votes to ouster UST. My straw poll says: Mac, STO, Carl, Aug, Ham, vote to ouster for sure. UST, SJU, Bethel, St. Bens, vote for sure to keep. The ousters need all four of the remaining votes (GAC, Conc, St. Mary's and St. Kates) to get UST out. I think it will be difficult for St. Kate's to vote against UST. They share a number of entities/programs not to mention both being Mpls/St. Paul Archdiocesan schools. It's a fight that I don't believe St. Kate's would want to take on.

[BDB]

This whole concept seems like a giant April fool's hoax.

[OzJohnnie]

If St Thomas is voted out it means 9 other institutions voted for it. That goes beyond the St Olaf president having sour grapes, it would point to there being a deeper issue between the Tommies and the rest of the league. St Olaf's president can't brainwash 8 schools to kick out the Tommies unless they felt the same way.

For years now St Thomas has been giving their top athletes full ride "leadership" scholarships that the smaller schools cannot afford to do and which is borderline illegal in D3 athletics. You don't think that would rub schools like Hamline the wrong way? So on top of poaching kids (as previously mentioned), they essentially outbid schools that are enrollment dependent for numbers and then steamroll them by 80 points, finishing touchdown drives with behind the back trick plays.

I do not want to see St Thomas leave the MIAC, but it is very easy to see why schools resent them and why it has come to a vote.

I started on this saying "Nah, not gonna happen."  Now I'm thinking that UST better be putting new labels on their luggage because they are taking that trip they have long been planning whether they are ready or not.

[OzJohnnie]

Ive seen one with my own eyes. My friend's son was offered one. It isn't a full scholarship but it was 90 something percent tuition for showing "great leadership" in high school and that St Thomas wants leaders like you. It was very suspect.

Sounds like you may be referring to the Dease scholarship program. It’s geared towards those in local communities where kids have shown leadership attributes in extra-curricular activities. The vast majority of those scholarships end up with non sport students and coaches have zero influence or say over the process. Furthermore it is also largely need and academic based. But go ahead and throw out baseless claims on the account of a single friends son. Makes sense. Since your an expert on the subject you would also know that scholarships in Division III are reported to governing bodies and they have to be consistent between athletes and non-athletes. Universities have been dinged for this in the past.

On a separate note no one seems to have a clear understanding of next steps other than the fact their is a meeting coming up with the Presidents. The lack of clarity is probably due to the unprecedented nature of booting out a founding member for being too good I suppose. Is it a majority vote, a unanimous vote? What are they voting on: outright removal, specific sports? Does Mac get to vote given their traitorous status? St Kate’s and St Bens and St Johns all count as a whole vote? The devil is in the details and it has me quite curious. I’ve heard Augsburg or Gustavus as a tiebreaker? That would lend credence to majority, but then again I’m not sure anyone knows the process.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.  If you UST has taken the same defensive/aggressive stance in response to the other institutions' concerns then I reckon the vote is a done deal.

[OzJohnnie]

I bet this guy never heard of UST or the MIAC. He could not care less if they kicked out the Tommies. 

Richmond Tigers, doing AFL old school when old school was new school.

[faunch]

Finally, something to discuss again. Yay! My 2 cents: This is really only a football problem and mainly because of the physicality of the sport. The gap between the haves and the have-nots will only continue to grow in football as the numbers continue to dwindle at the youth and HS levels. The solution could be applied to just football only but I believe the other sports would benefit as well. They should add 5 teams (Mac, Northwestern, Scholastica, Crown and Morris)There would be two divisions under the MIAC umbrella (Miac-Black and Miac-Blue) (Black: UST, SJU, Concordia, Bethel, Gustavus, STO, Auggie) (Blue: Hamline, Carleton, Mac, NW, Scholastica, Crown and Morris) Teams play within their own sub-division (6-games). They would cross over based on previous seasons finish for 2-games which would not be counted in sub-division standings. There would need to be a championship at the end of the season (possibly a "US Bank Day") Yes, I understand that these games would likely be onesided but it would give the blue/lower division a chance to still make the playoffs as the auto-bid would be on the line. It would not hurt the the #2 black/upper div. team from making the playoffs at-large (assuming they took care of business against the #2 blue). This format would give everyone a 9-game schedule. Each team would only need to get one "Non-Conference" game. Going forward every year (or maybe two years) the top team from the Blue div. moves up to the Black div. and the bottom Black Div. moves down to the Blue Div. There you have it! Next problem?

As difficult as it is to compliment you this is one hell of an idea. What's the likelihood you might share this idea with U$T or Mac as you have connections at both institutions. Sorry but the blue does not deserve and automatic bid...their playoff game would be the end of season championship.

[MiacMan]

This whole concept seems like a giant April fool's hoax.

BDB

I wish it were but, unfortunately, "plow parenting" has been taken to a whole new level.

That being said, I really can't fathom that the ousters will have the votes.