FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OzJohnnie]

Our cup runneth over with MIAC championships - with all honesty, has gotten very boring.

And yet you can't leave of your own volition, instead waiting to be kicked to the curb.  Self-actualisation is a key milestone in becoming an adult.  With a bit more time I bet UST can get there.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[Gregory Sager]

Deep thoughts Oz. I've thought for a while it was a matter of if, not when
DIII's landscape might change. I didn't anticipate it might be so soon though. As is the case with the D1 shift football is the kingmaker and will drive any alignment changes.

For all of D3? Not true. D1 and D3 are vastly different entities, and nowhere is that more evident than in football. In D1 football and men's basketball call the shots and everybody else falls in line behind them, because football and men's basketball pay the bills for everybody else. That's not how it is in D3, which doesn't have revenue-generating sports (unless you consider student-athlete enrollment itself to be revenue generation). Heck, something like 46% of D3 schools don't even have football programs.

As for D3 splitting, there was a movement among some of the more academically restrictive schools to create a D4 about a decade ago. There was non-stop discussion of it here on d3boards. The movement fell far short of being accepted by the D3 convention, and nobody's brought it up since.

[miac952]

Insider info:

Phil Esten will roll into the April 18th MIAC meeting and announce the following to weasel David Anderson and his band of misfit toys:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RUz5xVahjko

[MiacMan]

Our cup runneth over with MIAC championships - with all honesty, has gotten very boring.

And yet you can't leave of your own volition, instead waiting to be kicked to the curb.  Self-actualisation is a key milestone in becoming an adult.  With a bit more time I bet UST can get there.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Oz

You're very insightful, usually spot on and I enjoy reading and respect your opinion, this topic seems to have you making decisions more emotional than logic. For UST this has nothing to do with sports or a cherished rivalry. This decision was made when Julie Sulivan was named President. It's not about manning-up and telling everyone their leaving. They are manning up and telling everyone their plans, but they would like to stay. The NCAA doesn't base their divisions on enrollment (and you know this) so they are perfectly within the rules of the NCAA to stay D3. Many of the WIAC Schools will still be bigger than UST for quite some time. The MIAC has every right to make it's own decisions. UST would, in a perfect world like to stay exactly where they are in the MIAC and grow their business the way they see fit. They want their cake and eat it too, as most of the rest of the schools see it. Anyway, you're a smart guy. I'm guessing you get it. As far as sports go,it's the MIAC's decision. UST is a legit D3 school as are the WIAC schools but, their hand might be forced. In the end everyone needs to do what they need to do.

[OzJohnnie]

Our cup runneth over with MIAC championships - with all honesty, has gotten very boring.

And yet you can't leave of your own volition, instead waiting to be kicked to the curb.  Self-actualisation is a key milestone in becoming an adult.  With a bit more time I bet UST can get there.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Oz

You're very insightful, usually spot on and I enjoy reading and respect your opinion, this topic seems to have you making decisions more emotional than logic. For UST this has nothing to do with sports or a cherished rivalry. This decision was made when Julie Sulivan was named President. It's not about manning-up and telling everyone their leaving. They are manning up and telling everyone their plans, but they would like to stay. The NCAA doesn't base their divisions on enrollment (and you know this) so they are perfectly within the rules of the NCAA to stay D3. Many of the WIAC Schools will still be bigger than UST for quite some time. The MIAC has every right to make it's own decisions. UST would, in a perfect world like to stay exactly where they are in the MIAC and grow their business the way they see fit. They want their cake and eat it too, as most of the rest of the schools see it. Anyway, you're a smart guy. I'm guessing you get it. As far as sports go,it's the MIAC's decision. UST is a legit D3 school as are the WIAC schools but, their hand might be forced. In the end everyone needs to do what they need to do.

Nah, mate.  I'm just trolling PR.  I'm sure the MIAC heads will be much more mature.

EDIT:  I will say, though, that it seems, particularly when it comes to recruiting football athletes (but maybe elsewhere, I don't know), that UST really pushes the boundaries and I could see how other MIAC schools may feel those boundaries are being pushed at their expense.  I also think that Caruso also pushes the boundaries of collegiate sporting spirit with the fake punts and trick two-point plays, again at the expense of the schools that may feel a grudge from the UST recruiting approach.

So, if that's how everyone feels then UST has to make a decision: stay and make friends or go.  I would prefer they stay.  But if staying means that UST needs to change its ambitions then I think there's a reckoning coming.  Maybe not in this vote but soon, because I don't see UST changing its ambitions.

[MiacMan]

Our cup runneth over with MIAC championships - with all honesty, has gotten very boring.

And yet you can't leave of your own volition, instead waiting to be kicked to the curb.  Self-actualisation is a key milestone in becoming an adult.  With a bit more time I bet UST can get there.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Oz

You're very insightful, usually spot on and I enjoy reading and respect your opinion, this topic seems to have you making decisions more emotional than logic. For UST this has nothing to do with sports or a cherished rivalry. This decision was made when Julie Sulivan was named President. It's not about manning-up and telling everyone their leaving. They are manning up and telling everyone their plans, but they would like to stay. The NCAA doesn't base their divisions on enrollment (and you know this) so they are perfectly within the rules of the NCAA to stay D3. Many of the WIAC Schools will still be bigger than UST for quite some time. The MIAC has every right to make it's own decisions. UST would, in a perfect world like to stay exactly where they are in the MIAC and grow their business the way they see fit. They want their cake and eat it too, as most of the rest of the schools see it. Anyway, you're a smart guy. I'm guessing you get it. As far as sports go,it's the MIAC's decision. UST is a legit D3 school as are the WIAC schools but, their hand might be forced. In the end everyone needs to do what they need to do.

Nah, mate.  I'm just trolling PR.  I'm sure the MIAC heads will be much more mature.

EDIT:  I will say, though, that it seems, particularly when it comes to recruiting football athletes (but maybe elsewhere, I don't know), that UST really pushes the boundaries and I could see how other MIAC schools may feel those boundaries are being pushed at their expense.  I also think that Caruso also pushes the boundaries of collegiate sporting spirit with the fake punts and trick two-point plays, again at the expense of the schools that may feel a grudge from the UST recruiting approach.

So, if that's how everyone feels then UST has to make a decision: stay and make friends or go.  I would prefer they stay.  But if staying means that UST needs to change its ambitions then I think there's a reckoning coming.  Maybe not in this vote but soon, because I don't see UST changing its ambitions.

Oz

I should have guessed. You're a great poster. I will say that on the recruiting front, everyone does it! I have inside info. on the recruiting of Max Jackson and not from the UST side of it but his HS (CDH) side of it. If you know me, you'll know I have access/inside contacts to this. However, having been there, so I typically just dismiss these questionable practices as being "out manuevered" My reaction was good for SJU. They made a better deal. The same deal is going on with a St. Thomas Academy kid as we speak. It looks like SJU is going to prosper in much the same way. Cheers!

FYI, My bucket list has me down under at some point. I hope to enjoy a local beer with you when it happens!

[OzJohnnie]

Well, I don't have any inside info on anything.  All my hot tips come straight from this board.  If SJU are doing it too then I guess I'm not too surprised.

D3 football has gone nuclear in the last ten or twelve years and I guess that's the issue.  Competing to win the MIAC has been superseded by competing to win nationally.  And to beat the UHMB, MUC, UWW, UWO types you've got to be loaded for bear.  The MIAC is fortunate in one sense that there are 2 3/4 programs able to represent in that circle.  But the MIAC is unfortunate in the sense that there are 7 1/4 programs that cannot and don't really want to.

I guess I'm torn.  I like the idea in Minnesota that all the kids are well above average and do their best.  But I don't like the idea of putting fingers on the scale of the football programs "too much."  A little is ok as that's what you've got to do, but there's a line somewhere that's hard to see but can be recognised after it's been crossed.

I suppose that's the issue facing the MIAC today.  Does national D3 football cross the MIAC line?  I don't reckon it does.  But then I don't have the perspective of one of these smaller programs who will never compete nationally trying to recruit a team with the sales message of, "Come join us and get the crap kicked out of you three or four times a season.  It's a hoot!"


EDIT: And if you're ever down this way then, of course, the beers are on me.

[faunch]

Do the MIAC football bottom dwellers understand that they will have handed the conference football title to SJU if they force out U$T or if U$T leaves on their own to play D1 or D2?
How many U$T recruits narrowed their choice down to U$T and SJU?
If SJU now gets those kids the MIAC has likely handed SJU a national championship or two.
Imagine the 2018 Johnnies with 5, 6 even 10 of the Tommie starters?
I'd hate to lose the rivalry but if Olaf wants to set SJU football up for even more success....maybe thats it. Maybe this is a setup to eventually boot out SJU!
Feckin' Lutherans...can't trust any of them! 

[BDB]

FWIW, if the MIAC drops football membership by 1 it won't be hard to find an additional non-conference opponent to fill out the schedule.

UW-Stout is flying out to California this season on a home-away deal and I'm sure they would rather just take a bus over to Minny somewhere. Same with the rest of the conference I would think.

[repete]

Do the MIAC football bottom dwellers understand that they will have handed the conference football title to SJU if they force out U$T or if U$T leaves on their own to play D1 or D2?
How many U$T recruits narrowed their choice down to U$T and SJU?
If SJU now gets those kids the MIAC has likely handed SJU a national championship or two.
Imagine the 2018 Johnnies with 5, 6 even 10 of the Tommie starters?
I'd hate to lose the rivalry but if Olaf wants to set SJU football up for even more success....maybe thats it. Maybe this is a setup to eventually boot out SJU!
Feckin' Lutherans...can't trust any of them! 

Good threat, folks. I've been away for a bit. Spreading some K.

I'm all for blaming the Lutherans. (Full disclosure, though, my roommate for two years at SJU was one and has been a pastor for 40+ years. Nearly was a Gustie.)

[MiacMan]

Do the MIAC football bottom dwellers understand that they will have handed the conference football title to SJU if they force out U$T or if U$T leaves on their own to play D1 or D2?
How many U$T recruits narrowed their choice down to U$T and SJU?
If SJU now gets those kids the MIAC has likely handed SJU a national championship or two.
Imagine the 2018 Johnnies with 5, 6 even 10 of the Tommie starters?
I'd hate to lose the rivalry but if Olaf wants to set SJU football up for even more success....maybe thats it. Maybe this is a setup to eventually boot out SJU!
Feckin' Lutherans...can't trust any of them! 

About 90+% of them. Seriously, I don't believe either of those two schools gets many, if any "good" players that do not consider the other school between UST and SJ2.

And Faunchy, I did talk to one of my contacts regarding adding to the league and having two divisions. Btw, thanks for the compliment (I think) Becareful, I hear my son (along with a few other Tommie gentlemen) were planning a trip to Iowa city to visit certain Irish Las. Can you imagine a Tommie in the fam? 

[faunch]

Do the MIAC football bottom dwellers understand that they will have handed the conference football title to SJU if they force out U$T or if U$T leaves on their own to play D1 or D2?
How many U$T recruits narrowed their choice down to U$T and SJU?
If SJU now gets those kids the MIAC has likely handed SJU a national championship or two.
Imagine the 2018 Johnnies with 5, 6 even 10 of the Tommie starters?
I'd hate to lose the rivalry but if Olaf wants to set SJU football up for even more success....maybe thats it. Maybe this is a setup to eventually boot out SJU!
Feckin' Lutherans...can't trust any of them! 

About 90+% of them. Seriously, I don't believe either of those two schools gets many, if any "good" players that do not consider the other school between UST and SJ2.

And Faunchy, I did talk to one of my contacts regarding adding to the league and having two divisions. Btw, thanks for the compliment (I think) Becareful, I hear my son (along with a few other Tommie gentlemen) were planning a trip to Iowa city to visit certain Irish Las. Can you imagine a Tommie in the fam? 

I already have 2 nephews and a niece that drank the purple punch!  Tell them to get out of the Iowa City bars at 10pm...unless they want a $300 fine and a simple misdemeanor on their record! It's not like Thursday Teen Night @ Tiff's!!!!   

[Gregory Sager]

How does the vote go down? Here's my internal straw poll:
YES: Hamline, Augsburg, Olaf, Carleton, St. Kates, St. Mary's, MAC (7 votes)
NO: UST, SJU, St. Ben's (assuming they vote with SJU)
SWING: Bethel, Concordia, GAC

Lutheran & Catholic politics galore here. Can Olaf and Augsburg influence GAC and Concordia??

I'd hate to lose the rivalry but if Olaf wants to set SJU football up for even more success....maybe thats it. Maybe this is a setup to eventually boot out SJU!
Feckin' Lutherans...can't trust any of them! 

I'm all for blaming the Lutherans.

I am utterly fascinated by the fact that the Thirty Years' War is about to be re-fought four centuries later in the state that has "Nice" as its last name.

[OzJohnnie]

Do the MIAC football bottom dwellers understand that they will have handed the conference football title to SJU if they force out U$T or if U$T leaves on their own to play D1 or D2?
How many U$T recruits narrowed their choice down to U$T and SJU?
If SJU now gets those kids the MIAC has likely handed SJU a national championship or two.
Imagine the 2018 Johnnies with 5, 6 even 10 of the Tommie starters?
I'd hate to lose the rivalry but if Olaf wants to set SJU football up for even more success....maybe thats it. Maybe this is a setup to eventually boot out SJU!
Feckin' Lutherans...can't trust any of them! 

You've just made me consider changing my position. If this were a one party town, like UMU or UMHB enjoy, what would that mean for Johnnie recruiting?  Yowzers. I may need to think about this.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Do the MIAC football bottom dwellers understand that they will have handed the conference football title to SJU if they force out U$T or if U$T leaves on their own to play D1 or D2?
How many U$T recruits narrowed their choice down to U$T and SJU?
If SJU now gets those kids the MIAC has likely handed SJU a national championship or two.
Imagine the 2018 Johnnies with 5, 6 even 10 of the Tommie starters?
I'd hate to lose the rivalry but if Olaf wants to set SJU football up for even more success....maybe thats it. Maybe this is a setup to eventually boot out SJU!
Feckin' Lutherans...can't trust any of them! 

You've just made me consider changing my position. If this were a one party town, like UMU or UMHB enjoy, what would that mean for Johnnie recruiting?  Yowzers. I may need to think about this.

UMU and UMHB may both dominate, but I suspect JCU and HSU (and, in the past, others from time to time) would take serious offense in the implication that they face NO challengers!  Just as I suspect that Concordia and Bethel (and perhaps others) may take offense in assuming that SJU would completely take over if UST were to leave.