FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OzJohnnie]

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/football/4595755-kolpack-its-time-boot-st-thomas-miac-division-i

If the MIAC votes to oust the Tommies, the athletic department should throw a party. A toast to the future. The time has come for a Division I move.

[sjusection105]

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/football/4595755-kolpack-its-time-boot-st-thomas-miac-division-i

If the MIAC votes to oust the Tommies, the athletic department should throw a party. A toast to the future. The time has come for a Division I move.

Intersting article but short on facts of the transition from D3 to D1 in 2019. It's not 2003 and the move from D3 to D1 is a process that will take a stop over in D2 land before moving to D1 but it's been a long time since facts got in the way of a sexy newspaper report.....

[OzJohnnie]

https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/06/3329852/

Pssst: Insiders say fireworks erupted between two veteran MIAC football coaches at recent league meetings while several schools want to oust St. Thomas from the conference for a couple of reasons besides the Tommies' athletic dominance. By the way, if St. Thomas is booted out by school presidents, sources say St. John's will be the next target.

[Pat Coleman]

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/football/4595755-kolpack-its-time-boot-st-thomas-miac-division-i

If the MIAC votes to oust the Tommies, the athletic department should throw a party. A toast to the future. The time has come for a Division I move.

Intersting article but short on facts of the transition from D3 to D1 in 2019. It's not 2003 and the move from D3 to D1 is a process that will take a stop over in D2 land before moving to D1 but it's been a long time since facts got in the way of a sexy newspaper report.....

Not really a report as much as a column.

[wm4]

After all, UST has done extremely well in baseball and basketball for a long, long time.  No one threatened to kick them out for that success.  But I don't think there were any timeouts getting called at the end of a basketball blowout to try a buzzer-beating three-point attempt under game conditions.  I suspect it may be behaviour like that on the football field that has caused some in the conference to say, "We don't have to put up with this s***."

You know who else essentially said that Oz, circa 2008?  UST.  They hired Caruso, they committed to facilities, they raised a bunch of money, they engaged alumni, they busted their a** on the recruiting trail, and got results.  The rest of the MIAC?  Several schools snoozed thru the last 10 years, and here they are. 

If UST can do it, several other MIAC schools can do it too.

[OzJohnnie]

After all, UST has done extremely well in baseball and basketball for a long, long time.  No one threatened to kick them out for that success.  But I don't think there were any timeouts getting called at the end of a basketball blowout to try a buzzer-beating three-point attempt under game conditions.  I suspect it may be behaviour like that on the football field that has caused some in the conference to say, "We don't have to put up with this s***."

You know who else essentially said that Oz, circa 2008?  UST.  They hired Caruso, they committed to facilities, they raised a bunch of money, they engaged alumni, they busted their a** on the recruiting trail, and got results.  The rest of the MIAC?  Several schools snoozed thru the last 10 years, and here they are. 

If UST can do it, several other MIAC schools can do it too.

I agree 100%. I think that the issue goes beyond investment and performance, however, at least given the inside word dropped by a couple ITK posters here and in the media articles.

The public talk may be wrapped up in excuses around enrolment size or athletic performance, but I think from the hints here that the real issue is that there are a few people that really don't like each other and it's toxic enough to bring a vote like this into consideration.  I bet we'll find out soon as the vote approaches and more leaks come out.

[miac952]

https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/06/3329852/

Pssst: Insiders say fireworks erupted between two veteran MIAC football coaches at recent league meetings while several schools want to oust St. Thomas from the conference for a couple of reasons besides the Tommies' athletic dominance. By the way, if St. Thomas is booted out by school presidents, sources say St. John's will be the next target.

Ive heard about this one from the meeting from a couple people. It sounds like two unlikely coaches went toe to toe. Horan and Haege. Not a lot of love for Haege amongst the upper echelon. Whines a lot and has undisciplined teams that under achieve. Horan is close with Caruso and Concordia is strongly in the keep them in the conference contingent.

This isn't pretty. Regardless of the vote damage has been done and laundry is being aired out publicly by the two sides.

[USTBench]

As frustrated as I am with the Coalition of Losers (trademark pending), I think the writing is on the wall and it's probably not much of a surprise to anyone. UST doesn't bring in an associate AD from a Big 10 school if it plans on staying (alum or not). I think when this is all said and done UST will probably announce a plan of action that will allow it to stay in the MIAC for the next year or two while it finds a home, possibly outside of Division III.

I know from watching NDSU/SDSU's then UND/USD's transitions that this sort of move works so much better with a partner, and unfortunately, I don't know that SJU (UST's rival and a natural travel partner) are ready or willing to make that leap. Of course, if what I've gleaned is true, SJU may not have a choice but to find a new home should the Coalition of Losers have their way.

If the UMAC and MIAC could get together and have a meeting of the minds, it might make sense to have a few members switch places, but from the outside looking in, it seems only Northwestern (possibly St. Scholastica, but it appears they'd have to make an investment in athletics) might be okay fits for the MIAC. But switching 2 schools for 4 schools would leave the MIAC only 7 for football, so that wouldn't work, and it looks like the Coalition of Losers is more interested in forcing UST out than changing conference affiliations.

The other Division III option is for UST (and, who are we kidding, SJU eventually) to play an independent schedule in football, and see if the Coalition of Losers will let UST remain an affiliate member for other sports, but this sounds like it's probably not a viable option long-term either.

I think with UST's new AD, who has experience bringing D1 hockey to Penn State, UST might explore leaving for the NSIC/WCHA. Unfortunately, the NSIC is already at 16 member institutions split into two divisions, and I highly doubt SJU would be willing to make that jump with UST. In my dream scenario, UST and SJU wouldn't have to go DII,  and could join the Pioneer League in football (non-scholarship with Drake, Butler, Valpo, etc.), WCHA in hockey and Summit League for all other sports because, believe it or not, their facilities are just fine for the Summit, and geographically it makes the most sense.

What I think is likely to happen, is UST is going to double down on its athletic investment, raise a ton of money for hockey and try to find a home in the NSIC in the next few years. Whatever happens, UST is going to have a VERY painful transition unless it can get someone to make the jump with them.

[OldAuggie]

As frustrated as I am with the Coalition of Losers (trademark pending), I think the writing is on the wall and it's probably not much of a surprise to anyone. UST doesn't bring in an associate AD from a Big 10 school if it plans on staying (alum or not). I think when this is all said and done UST will probably announce a plan of action that will allow it to stay in the MIAC for the next year or two while it finds a home, possibly outside of Division III.

I know from watching NDSU/SDSU's then UND/USD's transitions that this sort of move works so much better with a partner, and unfortunately, I don't know that SJU (UST's rival and a natural travel partner) are ready or willing to make that leap. Of course, if what I've gleaned is true, SJU may not have a choice but to find a new home should the Coalition of Losers have their way.

If the UMAC and MIAC could get together and have a meeting of the minds, it might make sense to have a few members switch places, but from the outside looking in, it seems only Northwestern (possibly St. Scholastica, but it appears they'd have to make an investment in athletics) might be okay fits for the MIAC. But switching 2 schools for 4 schools would leave the MIAC only 7 for football, so that wouldn't work, and it looks like the Coalition of Losers is more interested in forcing UST out than changing conference affiliations.

The other Division III option is for UST (and, who are we kidding, SJU eventually) to play an independent schedule in football, and see if the Coalition of Losers will let UST remain an affiliate member for other sports, but this sounds like it's probably not a viable option long-term either.

I think with UST's new AD, who has experience bringing D1 hockey to Penn State, UST might explore leaving for the NSIC/WCHA. Unfortunately, the NSIC is already at 16 member institutions split into two divisions, and I highly doubt SJU would be willing to make that jump with UST. In my dream scenario, UST and SJU wouldn't have to go DII,  and could join the Pioneer League in football (non-scholarship with Drake, Butler, Valpo, etc.), WCHA in hockey and Summit League for all other sports because, believe it or not, their facilities are just fine for the Summit, and geographically it makes the most sense.

What I think is likely to happen, is UST is going to double down on its athletic investment, raise a ton of money for hockey and try to find a home in the NSIC in the next few years. Whatever happens, UST is going to have a VERY painful transition unless it can get someone to make the jump with them.

Makes sense and I look forward to potentially attending a UST game at my other alma mater, UMD. My Bulldog Football jacket does not fit anymore but I have a couple UMD hockey hoodies that I wear. 

The adjustment might be painful but it won't be long and UST will be competitive in the NSIC. As many know UMD was a MIAC school until 1975 and they made the leap. In my time on the Bulldogs in the early 80's the team was strong. I see this potential move; UST to the NSIC as a similar transition.

I just can't see the MIAC staying in one piece after all this turmoil. Either UST is out or several other schools are gone. I don't see everyone making up after this one.

[Gregory Sager]

If UST does get the boot, what do you think the chances are that the WIAC extends an offer? They've had scheduling issues for years, so that might make some sense

Probably zero. I'm sure their bylaws limit their affiliation to Wisconsin public schools.

The WIAC does have affiliate members: Gustavus Adolphus, Winona State, and Hamline for gymnastics, and UW-Superior for both men's and women's hockey. Illinois Tech used to be an affiliate member for baseball, Lawrence for wrestling, and Finlandia for men's soccer. But, yeah, you have to be a branch campus of the University of Wisconsin to be a full member of the WIAC.

Turns out that I was wrong about this. A Wisconsin-based SID informed me that full WIAC membership isn't confined to UW branch campuses after all. So perhaps UST might find a landing spot in the WIAC if Tomtoss becomes a reality.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Yeah. But it was the only college in Wiscy that has "Saint" in their name and a football team that I could think of. And the Concordia in Wisconsin, well that would get confusing with 2 of them. 

My joking about it is how this whole "Tomexit" force out appears to me from the outside looking in, kind of ridiculous. But what do I know.

For what it's worth, Brexit is about someone leaving a group voluntarily. This is more like a "Tomtoss" or something.

GlennOut

[hazzben]

My guess is the Bethel administration has talked with Coach Johnson.  I would imagine his input along with that of many other MIAC ADs and coaches and will be considered by presidents. 

Perhaps, perhaps not. Undoubtedly, Bethel AD Bob Bjorklund has some input, and he might speak for the whole department. Or Bjorklund's input may came via reporting upstairs to whichever member of the president's cabinet is over athletics. All I'm saying is that: a) a head football coach is pretty far down the organizational chart of a D3 school's administration; b) football coaches aren't supposed to carry any more weight in these matter than coaches of other sports; c) football doesn't call the shots at the schools that are members of this level of the NCAA; and d) you can't assume that Steve Johnson speaks on behalf of his school in this matter. In fact, his quote from the Star-Tribune piece:

“I’m not an expert on this whole thing,” Johnson said. “All I know is we take it as a challenge to play the Tommies, and when we have a chance to beat them as we did last season, it’s great for our program.

“I guess I see both sides. St. Thomas brings a lot of prestige nationally in many athletics to our conference. It also doesn’t really fit the rest of the conference, the way it has exploded as an institution, but for me … I want to have the Tommies in the league.”

... makes it pretty clear that he's speaking for himself, not for his school as a whole.

1. Agree, Coach J was pretty clearly speaking for himself in the article.

2. I wouldn't underestimate the amount of sway Coach J has, both in the athletic department and institutionally when it comes to a decision like this. AD and President aren't going to just vote as Coach J thinks they should. But he'll have a significant sounding board. And he carries a lot of influence with the other coaches. My gut is that basketball and baseball and track and probably several other coaches see this along the same lines as Coach J - we want to compete with UST. Yes they've got some baked in advantages, but we want to play against the best competition.

3. President Barnes just announced his retirement at the end of the next academic year. He's a bit of a lame duck president right now, and going through his 'Dwayne Wade' retirement tour, so to speak. So Coach J and Bjorklund's influence are probably even more significant than they would be otherwise.

4. The curveball in all of this, is that a number of MIAC schools have given Bethel, GAC, and Concordia an ultimatum. How they react to that is yet to be seen. Do they call their bluff, do they feel they need to cave, ...??

[miac952]

They should charge admission to the April 18th meeting. All proceeds can go to the "coalition of the losers" (copyright USTBench), to fund big bad athletics. Problem solved.

I would pay $ to see some of the rumored fireworks we are hearing of from prior meetings.

[jamtod]

They should charge admission to the April 18th meeting. All proceeds can go to the "coalition of the losers" (copyright USTBench), to fund big bad athletics. Problem solved.

I would pay $ to see some of the rumored fireworks we are hearing of from prior meetings.

That's my anniversary. Sounds like a great date night plan. I'll bring the popcorn.

[miac952]

My guess is the Bethel administration has talked with Coach Johnson.  I would imagine his input along with that of many other MIAC ADs and coaches and will be considered by presidents. 

Perhaps, perhaps not. Undoubtedly, Bethel AD Bob Bjorklund has some input, and he might speak for the whole department. Or Bjorklund's input may came via reporting upstairs to whichever member of the president's cabinet is over athletics. All I'm saying is that: a) a head football coach is pretty far down the organizational chart of a D3 school's administration; b) football coaches aren't supposed to carry any more weight in these matter than coaches of other sports; c) football doesn't call the shots at the schools that are members of this level of the NCAA; and d) you can't assume that Steve Johnson speaks on behalf of his school in this matter. In fact, his quote from the Star-Tribune piece:

"I'm not an expert on this whole thing," Johnson said. "All I know is we take it as a challenge to play the Tommies, and when we have a chance to beat them as we did last season, it's great for our program.

"I guess I see both sides. St. Thomas brings a lot of prestige nationally in many athletics to our conference. It also doesn't really fit the rest of the conference, the way it has exploded as an institution, but for me ... I want to have the Tommies in the league."

... makes it pretty clear that he's speaking for himself, not for his school as a whole.

1. Agree, Coach J was pretty clearly speaking for himself in the article.

2. I wouldn't underestimate the amount of sway Coach J has, both in the athletic department and institutionally when it comes to a decision like this. AD and President aren't going to just vote as Coach J thinks they should. But he'll have a significant sounding board. And he carries a lot of influence with the other coaches. My gut is that basketball and baseball and track and probably several other coaches see this along the same lines as Coach J - we want to compete with UST. Yes they've got some baked in advantages, but we want to play against the best competition.

3. President Barnes just announced his retirement at the end of the next academic year. He's a bit of a lame duck president right now, and going through his 'Dwayne Wade' retirement tour, so to speak. So Coach J and Bjorklund's influence are probably even more significant than they would be otherwise.

4. The curveball in all of this, is that a number of MIAC schools have given Bethel, GAC, and Concordia an ultimatum. How they react to that is yet to be seen. Do they call their bluff, do they feel they need to cave, ...??

I am curious on #4. Have they or others within the conference reached out to Scholastica or Northwestern. Seems logical they might want to make the jump. Both are more committed to athletics than some in the group pushing UST and now potentiallly SJU out as well (based on Shooter's column and a couple in the know on here).