FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[jamtod]

Well it seems as if our disagreement is the crux of the split in the conference. This debate appears to be about whether schools should emphasize athletics or academics. By the way, I can't imagine there being enough votes to kick St Thomas out, and i do hope they stay. I am just surprised by the number of people who see no issue in a school winning 97-0 while blitzing and running deep routes up 90 on a school's homecoming. I agree that schools should want to be competitive and not run from a challenge, but I also feel absolutely no empathy for the evil empire on Summit Ave, especially their classless football staff. There is a reason the Tommies might get voted out and not the Johnnies, even though St Johns has historically been the powerhouse. I am fine letting St Thomas reap what they've apparently sown.

Was this the same classless staff that is at St Olaf now? Killian had full reign calling plays and personnel for UST in many of the games you are complaining about. I guess he's ok now though, because he's on your side.

Im not an Ole fan.
The difference in the St Olaf-Carleton blowout and the St Thomas blowout is that the Tommie blowouts have happened for years now, as opposed to that Olaf example which was one occurrence in 2007. Again, I support schools putting money into athletics to get better, but there is nothing that will make me feel sorry for St Thomas. If 9 schools vote them out it is more than sour grapes. Again, no one hates St Johns to this level. Maybe St Thomas isn't the innocent catholic school boys you Tommie supporters make them out to be.

On the contrary, my friend...

My hate for SJU is good and clean. I want them around and I want to stick in the MIAC.
At the same time, I am ok with UST raising it's national (sports and otherwise) and academic profile and if that ultimately means saying bye bye to D3 sports, I guess I'll have to deal. I much prefer the purity of D3 and the local competition, being able to take my kids to games at Bethel and down to Northfield occasionally.

I have resigned myself to the fact that things will change. If UST finds itself in the NSIC, I will miss the rivalries with SJU and Bethel, but would be curious as to how they would stack up against Minnesota State - Mankato, UM-Duluth and other Division 2 powerhouses over time.

If UST plays an independent schedule, I would also be curious to see how that plays out.

Either way, things are going to change and it looks like UST is well aware of it if you just look at who they brought in at AD and the mere fact that they've been pretty tight-lipped about their position outside of "We remain committed to Division III and hope to remain in the MIAC." I'm sure hoping they've got something up their sleeve.

I'm absolutely certain there is a plan and it's going to end up a minor blip in the overall trajectory of UST. This can't have come as a major surprise to UST, as indicated here and elsewhere, these rumblings have been in place for several years.

I have a really hard time accepting that this would mean the end of the Tommie-Johnnie rivalry. But I guess it wouldn't be unprecedented in the history of sports.

[OzJohnnie]

It seems this whole situation could be resolved if UST said something like, "We're sorry we have been kicking sand in your faces the last few years. We're not sorry that we have pursued an agenda of national competitiveness across the sporting calendar (and we're extremely grateful that the MIAC has afforded our students this choice. The wide variety of opportunities in the MIAC is one if it's most distinctive features) and we are proud to lift the miac's sports profile while also lifting our own.

We will be a good neighbor to our friends and apologise for temporarily losing sight of that important principle. Please forgive us and let us join you in making the MIAC an even more dynamic and successful conference."

Two drops of self-awareness and humility could be just the leadership the rest of the conference is looking for from UST. M

I don't disagree with this Oz, but I think it's too little too late at this point.

Also, there needs to be a requisite amount of humility to not just to offer an apology, but also accept one. The sense I get is that the schools pushing for the vote are calcified in their position. You don't throw out ultimatums to other schools who aren't part of the problem (Bethel, Concordia, & GAC) if you aren't already willing to go nuclear.

Perhaps, it may be too late. But it's just coaches at this point. Soon AD's and then presidents will get formally involved. That's two more escalation levels which offer the opportunity to change tack.  It may be that only by going over the coaches's heads that this can be resolved.  Who's going to believe a commitment to change from Caruso at this point?  Positions are well entrenched.  But a president saying, "I guarantee he'll play nice" is a different story.  A little rebuke from the boss is a different thing.

Anyways, I think it will work out, actually. Caruso may end up to having to write a summary of his thoughts after reading How to Win Friends and Influence People, but it will likely be a hard core Festivus with the Airing of the Grievances.  The MIAC is a handy little conference. Tearing it apart will suit no one's true agenda. So Caruso will need to eat (be force fed?) some well-earned humble pie. And then everyone will shake hands and move on.

[art76]

Imagine MAC & Carleton go MWC (embracing the stupid travel situation, and making a mockery of their commitment to "student-athlete" priorities) while some combination of St. Olaf, Hamline, and Augsburg are stuck in the MIAC because they couldn't find a landing spot. How's that for wonderfully awkward, and poetic justice.

Hazz, and all the rest that have chimed in concerning the brouhaha concerning #TomToss,

I have been sitting back in a corner and reading the many and varied angles and interests in this whole affair. Early on, I had taken on the "Tell me it ain't so" position. Currently, I am of the persuasion that the Tommies days are numbered in the MIAC, but I still wish it hadn't come to blows. If it does come to pass that the Tommies are ousted, it is going to make for some awkward games for the next couple of falls. I don't see anything holding the Tommies back from keeping the pedal to the metal and going full throttle against those that have been the most vocal in their ouster. 140 to nothing, anyone? (You saw it here first.)

While many that have posted here have some insight into what has happened, I for one, would sure like to see something of substance from someone who was at the party, er, meeting. Often, things are said in the heat of the moment because something has been roiling beneath the surface for some time. The straw that broke the camel's back sort of thing. I am trying to stay all Switzerland in this, even if my horse really isn't involved in the incident, while still being in the race. Does being an observer make me complicit? (That's a rhetorical question, BTW.)

In 5 years we can all look back on this and see how it all shook out, for better or worse. Hopefully, those that lead will have learned something from the experience.

PS. And FWIW, it is my opinion that the timing couldn't have been worse football-wise, as I think the next couple of years in the MIAC were set up to be outstanding competition amongst the leaders in the conference - Bethel, St. John's and St. Thomas.

[USTBench]

It seems this whole situation could be resolved if UST said something like, "We're sorry we have been kicking sand in your faces the last few years. We're not sorry that we have pursued an agenda of national competitiveness across the sporting calendar (and we're extremely grateful that the MIAC has afforded our students this choice. The wide variety of opportunities in the MIAC is one if it's most distinctive features) and we are proud to lift the miac's sports profile while also lifting our own.

We will be a good neighbor to our friends and apologise for temporarily losing sight of that important principle. Please forgive us and let us join you in making the MIAC an even more dynamic and successful conference."

Two drops of self-awareness and humility could be just the leadership the rest of the conference is looking for from UST. M

I don't disagree with this Oz, but I think it's too little too late at this point.

Also, there needs to be a requisite amount of humility to not just to offer an apology, but also accept one. The sense I get is that the schools pushing for the vote are calcified in their position. You don't throw out ultimatums to other schools who aren't part of the problem (Bethel, Concordia, & GAC) if you aren't already willing to go nuclear.

Perhaps, it may be too late. But it's just coaches at this point. Soon AD's and then presidents will get formally involved. That's two more escalation levels which offer the opportunity to change tack.  It may be that only by going over the coaches's heads that this can be resolved.  Who's going to believe a commitment to change from Caruso at this point?  Positions are well entrenched.  But a president saying, "I guarantee he'll play nice" is a different story.  A little rebuke from the boss is a different thing.

Anyways, I think it will work out, actually. Caruso may end up to having to write a summary of his thoughts after reading How to Win Friends and Influence People, but it will likely be a hard core Festivus with the Airing of the Grievances.  The MIAC is a handy little conference. Tearing it apart will suit no one's true agenda. So Caruso will need to eat (be force fed?) some well-earned humble pie. And then everyone will shake hands and move on.

I like your optimism, but I think this is just domino number one, honestly, and as much as you're trying to say this problem is limited to Caruso, I would disagree. SJU beat the Coalition of Losers by an average score of 54.75 to 1.75 in 2018, and then glided through Round 1 of the playoffs by hanging 84 on Martin Luther, another regional school from Minnesota. There's no easy fix here, and it's probably time for SJU to also admit they've also outgrown the MIAC before the Coalition of Losers makes that decision for them.

I mean, we can keep telling ourselves there's a classy way and an unclassy way to Quadruple Monkeystomp an opponent, but I don't think it really makes all that much difference to the monkeystomped year-after-year-after-year.

[wm4]

Looking for a little historical perspective here from folks who've followed the MIAC for longer than I have (2012 til now).  Monkey stomps per season have increased significantly in the last 4 seasons.    UST and SJU are the powers, and Bethel and Concordia fall in behind.  Is the top of the conference playing at a level consistent w/ prior decades and it's the bottom dwellers who've gotten worse?  Or has the top of the conference, pulled forward by UST and SJU just launched into another competitive level?  Or both?

I know coach-speak is going to say a rising tide lifts all boats, but just trying to get other points of view.  I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

[Gregory Sager]

It sounds like the MIAC as we know it is done one way or the other. Either UST is voted out or several schools are taking their balls and going home. (we've got posters with sources from schools on both side of the aisle that agree the stage is set for some sort of shake up).

If UST is out, this seems like a pretty clean process for the MIAC (UST options are more complicated). MAC returns as a FB participant, the league continues forward.

The bigger question ... if UST survives the vote, now what happens with the disgruntled MIAC schools??

People have thrown out the MWC as this panacea landing spot for all these schools. They would be a fit for Carleton, MAC (already playing football here), and St. Olaf. But do we know the MWC is looking to add two more schools for football and 3 more schools for all sports?

I think that you're asking the wrong question. The proper question is: Do Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf each honestly contemplate a move to the MWC?

It's not the wrong question, because there are more schools involved than just the top notch academic schools. Your question highlights my point. People are ignoring where Augsburg and Hamline end up in all of this. Where do they land?? Anyone??

No, it's the right question, because you're assuming that Augsburg and Hamline are a package deal, discussion-wise, along with Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf. They aren't. In fact, the three elite schools aren't even a package deal with each other. Any discussion here should recognize that each MIAC school will make the decision that it deems best for its own needs, not for the needs of its peers.

And, as for those three schools, it makes no geographic sense for them to join the MWC. I have heard through the grapevine that at least some of the MWC schools would welcome Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf into their ranks. But, again, the proper question is whether or not those three schools would want to join the MWC in the first place.

Every school is a free agent. It's just that three of them are logically linked to each other due to proximity and elite academic status.

The issue I raise is that the MWC and Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf all view themselves through the same academic lense. With MAC already there for football, and numerous posters already raising the MWC as a possible landing spot, the questions are centered around this conference. A) Does the MWC actually want to add two more football schools, and three more schools in all sports. I haven't seen anything that definitely says they do. It'd be pretty funny if UST won the vote, and Olaf, MAC, and Carleton leave. And the MWC turns around and says, actually, we are only interested in MAC and Carleton.

That's a moot point, though, AFAIK, because it assumes that the three elites are actually looking to join the MWC. I strongly doubt that they are, even if behind closed doors they may be using the possibility of their move to the MWC as a pretext to force the other MIAC schools into voting for Tomtoss. I can't picture the presidents of the three elites presenting their constituencies (especially their respective faculties) with a scenario in which their student-athletes would be asked to make multiple six- or seven-hour trips per season away from campus while school is in session.

As for the MWC, I've heard from at least one source that it has no qualms about expanding further. Remember, for much of its history (including as recently as four years ago) it was an 11-school league. I've been told that a couple of years ago the league made overtures to Coe and Luther about joining. It has as much to do with travel partners as it does with size, since certain sports (men's and women's basketball, for instance) operate with a Friday/Saturday schedule.

I agree, I think they'd be insane to go to the MWC because of the travel issues, and I've gone on record with this before. IMO, if the MIAC had any guts, they'd have told MAC that if they were leaving for FB then they can go for all sports. But they didn't, and here we sit. My gut is the schools calling for the vote are fairly confident they are going to win and aren't sweating these options.

You may be right about that. As far as the Macalester situation is concerned, that ship has sailed long ago. The precedent has been set that the MIAC does indeed recognize academic disparities within its ranks and will adjudicate accordingly.

More importantly, at first glance, Hamline and Augsburg don't appear to be nearly the fit the other schools would be.

I'm not sure I've heard any evidence that suggests all these schools actually have a landing spot.

On the flip side, MAC, Olaf, Hamline, Carleton, Augsburg opt out. Who does the MIAC (UST, Bethel, SJU, GAC, Concordia football-wise) go after?

Option 1: Super Conference - MIAC dogs go after ARC dogs Wartburg, Central, Dubuque, Simpson, and Coe. The best FB schools in the ARC have long hated their inability to get a Pool C bid and the lowish standing they hold nationally. The MIAC teams that love competition go after the best ARC teams. This would be a ridiculously competitive conference, and expand the recruiting footprint for all schools involved. Travel wouldn't be insane, though tough for the Cobbers. Hard to imagine the ARC schools being willing to blow up their conference. But look what's happening in the MIAC! Brave new world y'all

You're guilty of football-only thinking here, hazzbeen. First of all, nobody's going to form a football super-conference unless it's absolutely necessary. The first and best option, the option that any responsible school president will pursue, is an all-sports conference. Second, what looks like a top-dog situation in the ARC vis-a-vis football isn't a top-dog situation for other sports. Nebraska Wesleyan won the national title in men's basketball in 2018 and has a long history of national excellence on this level in that sport. NWU also dominates the ARC in the women's running sports. Loras has been a D3 national power in men's soccer for two decades now and is getting to that point in men's basketball as well. Dubuque dominates the men's running sports and is the defending conference champ in baseball.

If push came to shove and the three academic powerhouses of the MIAC poisoned the well in terms of their relationships with their MIAC brethren, the ARC would be a much more logical landing spot for them than the MWC. After all, there's at least one peer institution there already (Luther), and travel wouldn't be terrible. The question then becomes whether the nine-member ARC would want to become a 12-member league.

Not football-only thinking, but football is at the core of this, yes. That's what is driving this in the MIAC. Carleton has a competitive athletics department outside of football. Olaf as well.

My point wasn't about the MIAC, though. It was about the ARC. That's a very different league than this one, with a different mix of schools and a lot more all-sports balance than the MIAC has.

I never proposed a football only conference, but on the football board, I did concentrate the conversation in that direction.

The problem is that too many folks who post here base everything upon football. That's understandable, given that this is a football board, but departmental and institutional issues go far beyond football in matters like these. And, as you're well aware -- but as I still think some people who post on d3boards.com aren't -- football is a very different creature in D3 than it is in D1. It doesn't rule the roost.

I think that OzJohnnie is following the right path by talking about things such as financial aid packages, graduate programs, enrollment size in an era of shrinking student-age demographics, etc.

The schools I proposed have strong athletic departments in general, not just a cherry picked competitive one here and there. NWU is out on an island, hence why I didn't include them. 430 miles & 6.5 hours from the Twin Cities isn't attractive, just like the MWC travel schedule isn't.

You're positing a much broader gap among ARC athletic departments than actually exists. The championships won and the respective standings of various ARC sports reflects significant balance. Again, it's a very different league than the MIAC.

I have never heard any internal rumblings about breaking up the ARC. There were concerns a couple of decades ago that three of the then-IIAC members weren't doing their best to keep up with the rest of the league (not with one specific school, mind you, vis-a-vis the MIAC) in terms of the resources that they were putting into athletics. Two of the three walked away from the IIAC -- William Penn went to the NAIA, and Upper Iowa went to D2 -- and the third, Dubuque, took the suggestion to heart and beefed up its support of athletics to the point where it became competitive across the board. This is what I've been told by people within the league.

I don't think it's likely UST wins the vote. I don't think it's likely the MIAC could cherry pick the ARC for a new all sports conference. But it'd be a drastically more attractive conference than cherry picking the UMAC, academically and athletically.

Only if you could sell your selected ARC members on the idea. And I don't think that they would buy it. Why should they? If it ain't broke, don't fix it -- especially if fixing it means even more travel for your student-athletes. They've stuck their neck out on that score plenty as it is by adding Nebraska Wesleyan a couple of years ago.

The issue remains the last bolded portion. You and everyone else is obsessed with where the StoCarlMAc land. But where do Augsburg and Hamline end up?!

I'm not at all obsessed with where the three elites land. I'm simply addressing them, because: a) they're not a package deal with the other two schools; and b) MWC membership is at least logical for them from an academic viewpoint, which is not the case for Augsburg and Hamline.

I'm just as game to talk about Augsburg and Hamline -- or any other MIAC school -- as I am about the three elites.

The dirty secret in all of this is that the MIAC has never been the B1G in terms of institutional alignment. You see that when you try to find a logical landing spot for the football "bottom feeders." There's not much that ties these five schools together other than the fact they get rolled by UST in football.

My point, exactly, although I do see commonality among the three elites -- and I'm pretty sure that their respective leadership folks see it, too.

Which leads me to believe that they're very confident they've got the votes to kick UST to the curb. If not, my guess is there are going to be some schools that either get their bluff called and stay, or some that follow through while a few others realize they never had the ammunition to follow through to begin with.

Imagine MAC & Carleton go MWC (embracing the stupid travel situation, and making a mockery of their commitment to "student-athlete" priorities) while some combination of St. Olaf, Hamline, and Augsburg are stuck in the MIAC because they couldn't find a landing spot. How's that for wonderfully awkward, and poetic justice.

I can envision a whole bunch of possible scenarios as the fallout of this brouhaha. As an outsider with no skin in the game, I'm just sitting here with my tub of popcorn watching the spectacle on this board. (The alliance between UST and SJU supporters is entertaining in and of itself. )

[jamtod]

Looking for a little historical perspective here from folks who've followed the MIAC for longer than I have (2012 til now).  Monkey stomps per season have increased significantly in the last 4 seasons.    UST and SJU are the powers, and Bethel and Concordia fall in behind.  Is the top of the conference playing at a level consistent w/ prior decades and it's the bottom dwellers who've gotten worse?  Or has the top of the conference, pulled forward by UST and SJU just launched into another competitive level?  Or both?

I know coach-speak is going to say a rising tide lifts all boats, but just trying to get other points of view.  I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

I lack the wisdom or overall historical perspective having mostly jumped on the UST bandwagon after witnessing first hand the glorious behind the back 2 pointer en route to crushing Carleton (my oldest daughter and I have been hooked ever since... and we sucked when I was a student), but that's never stopped me from pontificating freely on anything.

I think it's a bit of column A and a bit of column B. The entire top level of D3 is in a different place and getting a different sort of talent than it once was. I won't opine on whether this is good or bad, but I think it's clearly true and can be seen across the board with playoff results and likely in other conferences as well. At the top level, there is an effort to squeeze every possible advantage out of the turnip which is recruiting the Twin Cities (and maybe a bit of Chicagoland, in UST's case) to have any chance of competing with the UMHBs and Mount Unions out there.

[jamtod]

I can envision a whole bunch of possible scenarios as the fallout of this brouhaha. As an outsider with no skin in the game, I'm just sitting here with my tub of popcorn watching the spectacle on this board. (The alliance between UST and SJU supporters is entertaining in and of itself. )

Oddly this happens here (and elsewhere) way more than one might think. I've spent way more effort defending the ugly Johnnies than I'd care to admit, but I suppose it makes sense that a Tommie would. We are accustomed to looking out for the Johnnies as our employees/minions in the workforce, so why not on here as well?

[jamtod]

I would honestly find it hilarious if the rest of the MIAC called the "gang of 3s" bluff and let them either stick around awkwardly in the MIAC or bounce off to the MWC or whatever where they might fit in with other elite academic liberal arts schools but end up damaging their own student athlete experience by forcing long travel and removing the local competition aspect that makes the MIAC so great.

[OzJohnnie]

Looking for a little historical perspective here from folks who've followed the MIAC for longer than I have (2012 til now).  Monkey stomps per season have increased significantly in the last 4 seasons.    UST and SJU are the powers, and Bethel and Concordia fall in behind.  Is the top of the conference playing at a level consistent w/ prior decades and it's the bottom dwellers who've gotten worse?  Or has the top of the conference, pulled forward by UST and SJU just launched into another competitive level?  Or both?

I know coach-speak is going to say a rising tide lifts all boats, but just trying to get other points of view.  I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

The top has lifted. D3 football nationally has undergone a wild arms race. I primarily blame UWW and UHMB.  To have a team which is competitive against those programs will destroy the bottom half of the MIAC.  The real gripe here is the rapid professionalisation of D3 sports on a national scale, football in particular.

UST's (and SJU/BU/CON) has the challenge of convincing its MIAC colleagues to support an agenda of national football competitiveness. It has to do this without making them feel abused or like patsies. Is that burden unfair?  Should they just support UST regardless as they are league allies?  Perhaps, but that's the burden of leadership.

The question here for UST, et al, isn't what's right or fair but how do they get what they want, which is a conference that both supports their ambitions and gives their students a meaningful sporting schedule in a wide range of sports, both men and women.  A big step to achieving that outcome is to listen to league concerns and to take genuine actions toward resolution. Any reasonable person can see that a nationally competitive program will be utterly dominating against almost any other competition.  How do you achieve that competitiveness without destroying your less nationally ambitious conference colleagues by turning them into laughing stocks?  That's the challenge.  Maybe UMU should be invited to the conversation to learn how they have largely squared that circle.

There are thousands of people that have spent hundreds of millions of dollars who are deeply affected by how well the football coaches and administrations can resolve this issue. This goes far beyond football which is why I think cooler (better?) heads will prevail.

[hazzben]

Looking for a little historical perspective here from folks who've followed the MIAC for longer than I have (2012 til now).  Monkey stomps per season have increased significantly in the last 4 seasons.    UST and SJU are the powers, and Bethel and Concordia fall in behind.  Is the top of the conference playing at a level consistent w/ prior decades and it's the bottom dwellers who've gotten worse?  Or has the top of the conference, pulled forward by UST and SJU just launched into another competitive level?  Or both?

I know coach-speak is going to say a rising tide lifts all boats, but just trying to get other points of view.  I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

As I mentally ran through the last 2-3 decades of MIAC football, I think we've seen a clear separation in the last 10 years. But I think it actually reflects trends in D3 broadly. The gap seems to have widened across the board. The nationally elite are consolidating power, and this makes other good to great programs around them better as the fight to keep up. But it also means that if you're asleep at the wheel you'll get rolled really fast.

I think of the teams that have had deep playoff runs in just the MIAC - lets call that quarter-finals or beyond. 10-20 years ago, those teams still got pushed in multiple conference games. 2003 SJU won very competitive games in the 4th quarter against UST & SJU on their way to a National Title. 2010 Bethel semi-final team lost a close game to UST in the regular season, won competitive games against Olaf, SJU, Concordia, Augsburg, and UST (playoffs).

The last few years, there's a noticeable difference between the top and bottom half. 15 years ago, bad teams might lose by 40-50, but it seemed like there were only one or two teams like that a given season. Now it seems like there are 3-4 teams capable of losing to the top teams by 50+ points.

[hazzben]

@Gregory Sager

I think we're actually in pretty close agreement on this.

I just wanted to spit ball what happens if UST wins the vote (which I think is less than 50/50), and then the schools calling for the vote actually have the guts to bail and indeed need to find a landing spot. The MWC is an institutional fit for 3 of the 5, but geographic purgatory. I'm guessing they'd view the UMAC as "below them." The only option then becomes something involving the ARC.

The flip side of that question is who does "the MIAC that remains" find to fill it's roster.

The absurdity of both leads me to think this is likely already a foregone conclusion. Aka, UST's time in the MIAC is all but over.

But man o man, is it gonna get really awkward and/or really crazy if StoCarlMac can only get 8 votes.

If the expected happens, UST and Caruso are gonna go scorched earth in their last few games against these schools as they exit.  Which begs the question, how many points could a Top 10 team put on a bottom 50 team if they didn't call off the dogs? We may be about to find out 

[johnnie_esq]

Looking for a little historical perspective here from folks who've followed the MIAC for longer than I have (2012 til now).  Monkey stomps per season have increased significantly in the last 4 seasons.    UST and SJU are the powers, and Bethel and Concordia fall in behind.  Is the top of the conference playing at a level consistent w/ prior decades and it's the bottom dwellers who've gotten worse?  Or has the top of the conference, pulled forward by UST and SJU just launched into another competitive level?  Or both?

I know coach-speak is going to say a rising tide lifts all boats, but just trying to get other points of view.  I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

From a HS coach perspective, the D3 "Haves" have really upped their game significantly.  Meanwhile, the "Have-Nots" have seen the floor go out on them, likely due to the declining number of players playing football overall at the HS level.  Thus, the talent gap will continue to widen, as HS players with talent will continue to want to show their game in competitive situations, while players who just want to enjoy playing the game will end up where they can do so.

Further, with concerns about head injuries, it is no surprise that D3 academic-first schools are significantly struggling in football: students aren't going to risk a good career for the love of a Saturday afternoon experience.  And thus the cycle continues.

[johnnie_esq]

Sorry for the double post, but if the "academic-first" trio were to bail on the conference, what makes anyone think that Hamline or Augsburg would want to stick around, much less CSS or Northwestern want to join in on the slaughter?  CSS and Northwestern are in good situations as it is. 

I could see Hamline and Augsburg seeking space in the UMAC, if there is room.  That would be very, very bad for the remaining crew in the MIAC.

[OzJohnnie]

Esq, perhaps a discussion for another slow news days, but I'm willing to consider that concussion fears are over blown.  Like silicon breast implants, SARS or mobile phone interference on airplanes, the fear hype could be well out in front of the reality.

Anyways, something for us to perhaps consider here when we don't have the Tommies to kick anymore.