FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[carletonknights]

It's a damn shame, too.  I love the Johnnie-Tommie rivalry.  I assume it will last for a little longer, but it's effectively over.

I wonder how packed Allianz stadium will be this fall if people believe it to be their last opportunity to watch the Tommie-Johnnie game?  I will be there.  I might even break out my SJU sweatshirt...

My points aside, good post, carletonknights.

Thank you for clarifying this to me.  I will look into the Learfield Director's Cup methodology more tomorrow.

[sjusection105]

If St Kate's votes to boot UST, that could be the end for St Kate's. They are in an extremely precipitous financial situation at the moment. UST supports St Kate's through sending a lot of students over for joint programs they have chosen to partner on. UST will probably move forward separating those programs and starting up a nursing school and NP/PA program as they have considered, much to the detriment of St Kate's.

This could be a land grab scenario for the land locked UST. Squeeze St. Kates out, acquire their land & expand on that land.

[miac952]

Ok, I've switched.  I'm in the UST out block.  They don't fit.  Too much money, too much growth, too much different from MIAC.  DII or DI or bust for the Tommies.  I wish them well.  I think they would do their fellow institutions a favour by leaving gracefully instead of waiting to be kicked out, but I imagine that's unlikely of them.

It's a damn shame, too.  I love the Johnnie-Tommie rivalry.  I assume it will last for a little longer, but it's effectively over.

As for the Johnnies, maybe this takes a little of the super charger off the football program, but I still expect they will strive to be nationally relevant and have regular deep runs.  Perhaps the Arden Hill Star Quest Dancers will replace the Summit Ave Cake Eaters as the big rivalry.

(This is the last time I change my mind.  Until I change it again.)

As your own brethren and The Pioneer Press stated SJU is next OZ. SJU shouldn't be too excited or get too comfortable on their perch. This will be the St Olaf coalition running the show going forward. Any triple monkey-stomps and Fasching will be called to the Principals office in northfield for his spankings

[Redtooth]

I had some very interesting conversations today about the hot topic....First, for the Presidents using non-Athletic criteria to justify removing a member institution from a conference that's sole purpose is to create a group of colleges to compete together in ATHLETICS is pure genius and could only be accomplished by a group of academic types that struggle to comprehend the value of athletics and athletes....

If the colleges in the MIAC with endowments less than $500MM wanted to get together and modify the bylaws to elimate the schools with the mega-endowments the uproar would be deafening....

Having been around this league for many years, the reality is the teams at the top in football have differentiated to compete nationally—while the bottom half would struggle to win in the Top Metro HS conferences.  The bottom teams are extremely lean on talent and the concepts used in an attempt to cover that deficient are at best VERY BAD.  In college football today, bad teams that are poorly coached get blown out regularly by very good teams.

[Gregory Sager]

I had some very interesting conversations today about the hot topic....First, for the Presidents using non-Athletic criteria to justify removing a member institution from a conference that's sole purpose is to create a group of colleges to compete together in ATHLETICS is pure genius and could only be accomplished by a group of academic types that struggle to comprehend the value of athletics and athletes....

Like it or not, athletics conferences encompass more issues than simple wins and losses on a field or a court. Follow the bigger picture of D3. Leagues come together and break apart, or absorb new members or excise current members, for reasons that don't have to do with the scoreboard. For instance, several leagues on the East Coast have pushed out members that they don't see as a good fit because they're state schools in a league dominated by private schools. In other leagues, geography plays a larger role than does competitive balance. And for some leagues, academic status is the key reason for their existence; it's why Wooster, Denison, Kenyon, Oberlin, and Ohio Wesleyan hived out of the OAC to form the NCAC in 1983-84, and it's why the Landmark similarly emerged out of the MAC in 2005.

[art76]

Having been around this league for many years, the reality is the teams at the top in football have differentiated to compete nationally—while the bottom half would struggle to win in the Top Metro HS conferences.  The bottom teams are extremely lean on talent and the concepts used in an attempt to cover that deficient are at best VERY BAD.  In college football today, bad teams that are poorly coached get blown out regularly by very good teams.

+K Redtooth

[OldAuggie]

I have read all the great posts tonight and listened to the podcast. Very interesting MIAC times we live in these days. A thought occurs to me that if Augsburg is indeed the swing vote then would this situation have been a little less traumatic for UST had Coach Caruso used a little polish on his weekly petulant sideline manners I observed as well as his curb stomping of the Oles? Just show a little class to the little guys, it goes a long way.

Caruso is reaping what he sowed right now, and I bet the UST coaching staff and faculty are not happy. I mean step back and look at this: one man's actions have caused this mess and I believe that to be true. It is not about the winning. Look at hockey as an example; I enjoy Augsburg beating UST each year lately.

UST will also reap what they have sowed regarding St Kate's and St. Mary's who were disrespected by UST and their nursing school. I know for a fact that same thing happened to the Hamline/Willie Mitchell Law School when St Thomas decided they would open their own Law School to make 3 in the Metro: The U of M Law School, Hamline/Willie Mitchell and St Thomas Law School. I know they were told by Hamline that the Metro had enough Law Schools, but they opened it anyway.

UST needs to play a bit nicer in the MIAC sandbox than they have but it is probably too late especially if the fate of UST is in the hands of Augsburg, who was not thrilled that MIAC wrestling fell apart when UST dropped the sport. Oz, I hope you are right, and Augsburg is considering some sort of deal. Maybe UST will bring back wrestling and MIAC wrestling can return which would keep AD Jeff Swenson and President Pribbenow happy. I know that the recently completed Hagfors Center was built to compete with UST for students so if President Pribbenow sees this as an opportunity to kick out UST I can't blame him.   

[OzJohnnie]

Having been around this league for many years, the reality is the teams at the top in football have differentiated to compete nationally—while the bottom half would struggle to win in the Top Metro HS conferences.  The bottom teams are extremely lean on talent and the concepts used in an attempt to cover that deficient are at best VERY BAD.  In college football today, bad teams that are poorly coached get blown out regularly by very good teams.

I don't disagree, RT, but I do a bit.  SJU dominated everything football for ages and the league lived with it.  There was grumbling about Gagliardi but everyone understood he was just really good at his job.  And it wasn't personal.  He didn't go out of his way to make people know they are beaten.  Except for UST, maybe.

But this is different.  People aren't just jealous of UST's success, but are unhappy with the way it's been done.  Not the just the money but the attitude.  Fakes and two-point plays.  Letting people know it's personal.  I think that enrolments and whatnot are convenient excuses for the fact that the other MIAC schools just don't like working with UST very much.  Don't like the people.  Particularly in the football program.  And have come up with a way to get rid of the problem.

I don't think SJU is next.  Take a few games last year.

Against Carlton SJU won 59-0, scoring only 7 after halftime.  UST won 68-0, scoring 26 after halftime.
Against St Olaf SJU won 57-14, scoring 14 late when a freshman RB broke a screen and run for long scores.  UST won 60 - 0, scoring 20 after the half.
Against Hamline SJU won 51 - 0, scoring 0 after halftime.  UST won 62 - 0, scoring 21 after the half.

In the 2017 97-0 quadruple stompout of STO, UST scored 33 after the half.


I think in the light of day and the emotion out of it, people in the conference would say SJU is very, very good but not mean.  I don't think they would say the same about the Tommies since they came to national football prominence.  Put it this way, absent the football program's behaviour I don't think these meetings would be happening despite the Tommie sports domination for the last 10 years.

[Redtooth]

Looking for a little historical perspective here from folks who've followed the MIAC for longer than I have (2012 til now).  Monkey stomps per season have increased significantly in the last 4 seasons.    UST and SJU are the powers, and Bethel and Concordia fall in behind.  Is the top of the conference playing at a level consistent w/ prior decades and it's the bottom dwellers who've gotten worse?  Or has the top of the conference, pulled forward by UST and SJU just launched into another competitive level?  Or both?

I know coach-speak is going to say a rising tide lifts all boats, but just trying to get other points of view.  I'll hang up and wait for your answer.

This is a very well thought out question...the top teams; SJU, UST and Bethel have distanced themselves from the group in the past decade and now develop their teams to compete nationally with UWW, Mount and MHB-those are the measuring sticks.  The middle strives to beat the bottom teams and not get blown out by the top thus achieves the parity that suits their respective schools and cultures....the bottom has also distanced themselves from the rest of the MIAC, both in terms of talent and quality of football played....because of the need for roster depth in football, very few great players end up selecting to play at schools with long histories of losing which creates a cycle where struggling coaches are forced to play with significantly less talented younger players using gimmick schemes...with results as expected.

[miac952]

Old Auggie - To date UST has not moved forward with anything related to nursing, so not sure why that would be an issue. Especially to St Mary's that just started their online only program recently. If anything St Kate's would be upset with St Mary's.

I was unaware because a college had a program you weren't able to start one yourselves. Should UST be angry Augsburg started an MBA program? Did the market really need another one. Instead when the MBA market got competitive UST snagged a B1G business school Dean, became AACSB accredited (only other local one is Carlson), and established some deep rooted partnerships with fortune 500's to educate their workforce. I didn't realize that so many in the MIAC are so fragile. The lack of success becomes self explanatory.

[jamtod]

Old Auggie - To date UST has not moved forward with anything related to nursing, so not sure why that would be an issue. Especially to St Mary's that just started their online only program recently. If anything St Kate's would be upset with St Mary's.

I was unaware because a college had a program you weren't able to start one yourselves. Should UST be angry Augsburg started an MBA program? Did the market really need another one. Instead when the MBA market got competitive UST snagged a B1G business school Dean, became AACSB accredited (only other local one is Carlson), and established some deep rooted partnerships with fortune 500's to educate their workforce. I didn't realize that so many in the MIAC are so fragile. The lack of success becomes self explanatory.

As somebody with an MBA (whatever it's worth), I can assure you the last thing the world needs is more MBAs.
In my undergrad, I occasionally worked at the full-time MBA program computer lab at UST's Minneapolis campus. Some of the most awful people fulfilling all the disgusting trust fund Tommie stereotypes you could imagine.
I mostly worked at the law school and from relationships I developed there and friends that went on to UST Law, it seems that UST Law has fulfilled a law school niche that wasn't being addressed, although that may have evolved over the years.

[miac952]

Having been around this league for many years, the reality is the teams at the top in football have differentiated to compete nationally—while the bottom half would struggle to win in the Top Metro HS conferences.  The bottom teams are extremely lean on talent and the concepts used in an attempt to cover that deficient are at best VERY BAD.  In college football today, bad teams that are poorly coached get blown out regularly by very good teams.

I don't disagree, RT, but I do a bit.  SJU dominated everything football for ages and the league lived with it.  There was grumbling about Gagliardi but everyone understood he was just really good at his job.  And it wasn't personal.  He didn't go out of his way to make people know they are beaten.  Except for UST, maybe.

But this is different.  People aren't just jealous of UST's success, but are unhappy with the way it's been done.  Not the just the money but the attitude.  Fakes and two-point plays.  Letting people know it's personal.  I think that enrolments and whatnot are convenient excuses for the fact that the other MIAC schools just don't like working with UST very much.  Don't like the people.  Particularly in the football program.  And have come up with a way to get rid of the problem.

I don't think SJU is next.  Take a few games last year.

Against Carlton SJU won 59-0, scoring only 7 after halftime.  UST won 68-0, scoring 26 after halftime.
Against St Olaf SJU won 57-14, scoring 14 late when a freshman RB broke a screen and run for long scores.  UST won 60 - 0, scoring 20 after the half.
Against Hamline SJU won 51 - 0, scoring 0 after halftime.  UST won 62 - 0, scoring 21 after the half.

In the 2017 97-0 quadruple stompout of STO, UST scored 33 after the half.


I think in the light of day and the emotion out of it, people in the conference would say SJU is very, very good but not mean.  I don't think they would say the same about the Tommies since they came to national football prominence.  Put it this way, absent the football program's behaviour I don't think these meetings would be happening despite the Tommie sports domination for the last 10 years.

Oz - Were you sleeping during Gags career? It took me 2 min to find a box score. Passing for a TD against Hamline with 10 seconds left already up by 60+. Even the mean Caruso didn't do that. I'm sure I could find a dozen other games if I cared to try. He made Caruso look quite sporting at times.

https://csbsju_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/Statistics/Football/2003/091303.htm

[faunch]

Having been around this league for many years, the reality is the teams at the top in football have differentiated to compete nationally—while the bottom half would struggle to win in the Top Metro HS conferences.  The bottom teams are extremely lean on talent and the concepts used in an attempt to cover that deficient are at best VERY BAD.  In college football today, bad teams that are poorly coached get blown out regularly by very good teams.

I don't disagree, RT, but I do a bit.  SJU dominated everything football for ages and the league lived with it.  There was grumbling about Gagliardi but everyone understood he was just really good at his job.  And it wasn't personal.  He didn't go out of his way to make people know they are beaten.  Except for UST, maybe.

But this is different.  People aren't just jealous of UST's success, but are unhappy with the way it's been done.  Not the just the money but the attitude.  Fakes and two-point plays.  Letting people know it's personal.  I think that enrolments and whatnot are convenient excuses for the fact that the other MIAC schools just don't like working with UST very much.  Don't like the people.  Particularly in the football program.  And have come up with a way to get rid of the problem.

I don't think SJU is next.  Take a few games last year.

Against Carlton SJU won 59-0, scoring only 7 after halftime.  UST won 68-0, scoring 26 after halftime.
Against St Olaf SJU won 57-14, scoring 14 late when a freshman RB broke a screen and run for long scores.  UST won 60 - 0, scoring 20 after the half.
Against Hamline SJU won 51 - 0, scoring 0 after halftime.  UST won 62 - 0, scoring 21 after the half.

In the 2017 97-0 quadruple stompout of STO, UST scored 33 after the half.


I think in the light of day and the emotion out of it, people in the conference would say SJU is very, very good but not mean.  I don't think they would say the same about the Tommies since they came to national football prominence.  Put it this way, absent the football program's behaviour I don't think these meetings would be happening despite the Tommie sports domination for the last 10 years.

Oz - Were you sleeping during Gags career? It took me 2 min to find a box score. Passing for a TD against Hamline with 10 seconds left already up by 60+. Even the mean Caruso didn't do that. I'm sure I could find a dozen other games if I cared to try. He made Caruso look quite sporting at times.

https://csbsju_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/Statistics/Football/2003/091303.htm

Who the hell was Charles Hollenback??

[jamtod]

Having been around this league for many years, the reality is the teams at the top in football have differentiated to compete nationally—while the bottom half would struggle to win in the Top Metro HS conferences.  The bottom teams are extremely lean on talent and the concepts used in an attempt to cover that deficient are at best VERY BAD.  In college football today, bad teams that are poorly coached get blown out regularly by very good teams.

I don't disagree, RT, but I do a bit.  SJU dominated everything football for ages and the league lived with it.  There was grumbling about Gagliardi but everyone understood he was just really good at his job.  And it wasn't personal.  He didn't go out of his way to make people know they are beaten.  Except for UST, maybe.

But this is different.  People aren't just jealous of UST's success, but are unhappy with the way it's been done.  Not the just the money but the attitude.  Fakes and two-point plays.  Letting people know it's personal.  I think that enrolments and whatnot are convenient excuses for the fact that the other MIAC schools just don't like working with UST very much.  Don't like the people.  Particularly in the football program.  And have come up with a way to get rid of the problem.

I don't think SJU is next.  Take a few games last year.

Against Carlton SJU won 59-0, scoring only 7 after halftime.  UST won 68-0, scoring 26 after halftime.
Against St Olaf SJU won 57-14, scoring 14 late when a freshman RB broke a screen and run for long scores.  UST won 60 - 0, scoring 20 after the half.
Against Hamline SJU won 51 - 0, scoring 0 after halftime.  UST won 62 - 0, scoring 21 after the half.

In the 2017 97-0 quadruple stompout of STO, UST scored 33 after the half.


I think in the light of day and the emotion out of it, people in the conference would say SJU is very, very good but not mean.  I don't think they would say the same about the Tommies since they came to national football prominence.  Put it this way, absent the football program's behaviour I don't think these meetings would be happening despite the Tommie sports domination for the last 10 years.

Oz - Were you sleeping during Gags career? It took me 2 min to find a box score. Passing for a TD against Hamline with 10 seconds left already up by 60+. Even the mean Caruso didn't do that. I'm sure I could find a dozen other games if I cared to try. He made Caruso look quite sporting at times.

https://csbsju_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/Statistics/Football/2003/091303.htm

Who the hell was Charles Hollenback??

He ain't no hollenback, girl

[Redtooth]

Having been around this league for many years, the reality is the teams at the top in football have differentiated to compete nationally—while the bottom half would struggle to win in the Top Metro HS conferences.  The bottom teams are extremely lean on talent and the concepts used in an attempt to cover that deficient are at best VERY BAD.  In college football today, bad teams that are poorly coached get blown out regularly by very good teams.

I don't disagree, RT, but I do a bit.  SJU dominated everything football for ages and the league lived with it.  There was grumbling about Gagliardi but everyone understood he was just really good at his job.  And it wasn't personal.  He didn't go out of his way to make people know they are beaten.  Except for UST, maybe.

But this is different.  People aren't just jealous of UST's success, but are unhappy with the way it's been done.  Not the just the money but the attitude.  Fakes and two-point plays.  Letting people know it's personal.  I think that enrolments and whatnot are convenient excuses for the fact that the other MIAC schools just don't like working with UST very much.  Don't like the people.  Particularly in the football program.  And have come up with a way to get rid of the problem.

I don't think SJU is next.  Take a few games last year.

Against Carlton SJU won 59-0, scoring only 7 after halftime.  UST won 68-0, scoring 26 after halftime.
Against St Olaf SJU won 57-14, scoring 14 late when a freshman RB broke a screen and run for long scores.  UST won 60 - 0, scoring 20 after the half.
Against Hamline SJU won 51 - 0, scoring 0 after halftime.  UST won 62 - 0, scoring 21 after the half.

In the 2017 97-0 quadruple stompout of STO, UST scored 33 after the half.


I think in the light of day and the emotion out of it, people in the conference would say SJU is very, very good but not mean.  I don't think they would say the same about the Tommies since they came to national football prominence.  Put it this way, absent the football program's behaviour I don't think these meetings would be happening despite the Tommie sports domination for the last 10 years.

Oz - Were you sleeping during Gags career? It took me 2 min to find a box score. Passing for a TD against Hamline with 10 seconds left already up by 60+. Even the mean Caruso didn't do that. I'm sure I could find a dozen other games if I cared to try. He made Caruso look quite sporting at times.

https://csbsju_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/Statistics/Football/2003/091303.htm

Who the hell was Charles Hollenback??

Backup TE