FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[USTBench]

Is that your way of saying no realistic solutions 😎

If I really think about it (assuming football is the crux of the problem), this would be, in my mind, the best solution I could come up with (logistically and paired with like-minded member institution ambitions), if all schools wish to remain in Division III.

There is little argument the WIAC is the strongest conference in Division III football, the winner of which is almost a lock for a semi-final appearance. Imagine a conference with 5+ schools with National Championship ambitions? It would be epic.

Gustavus and Concordia would fit quite well with most ARC schools (Lutheran, similar endowments and enrollment). From a competition standpoint, Augsburg, Hamline and STO would be title contenders in the UMAC on day one. And as far as Carleton is concerned, they could just step right in to the spot St. Norbert vacated.

*claps dust off hands

Problem solved.

Why would anyone want to create (or join) a conference that would have five very viable quarter finalists but only two slots?   A mega power conference doesn't suit DIII.  You're much better off making nice and being the big cheese in an AQ conference.

This is where I hope SJU stays.

Also, this isn't as simple as UST just dominates and everyone is sick of it.  There's a reason that football has caused this rift.  Personalities and behaviours matter.

Because I am not in the Coalition of Losers. I like watching competitive football, and every weekend would be insanely fun to watch.

Also, I'd be willing to bet the new WIAC+ conference would get an AQ plus two pool Cs every year. If 3 playoff spots isn't enough for you, then you belong in the Coalition of Losers.

Finally Oz, if you're holding out hope Glenn Caruso or UST is going to some MIAC meeting, hat-in-hand, with a prepared apology, don't hold your breath.

Double finally, what in the hell is so DIII about SJU anymore? ESPN coming to campus? 17,000 people watching a game on campus? Having to take a shuttle bus from my parking spot at 9am? Tailgating that rivals NDSU? Recruiting kids from California?

WIAC+! WIAC+! WIAC+!

[OzJohnnie]

Holding out hope Caruso changes his spots?  Hardly.  I just recognise that's what needs to happen.  Doesn't mean I think it will be any stretch.

[jamtod]

Holding out hope Caruso changes his spots?  Hardly.  I just recognise that's what needs to happen.  Doesn't mean I think it will be any stretch.

Needs to happen for what? For your little dream scenario where your wack-a-doodle perspective is validated?

Stick to footy, pal.

[art76]

Dissolving the MIAC is not in anybody's best interest, if you were asking me. (And nobody is, so take it for what it is worth.)

As has already been mentioned, come playoff time the West is already loaded and we moan and complain that we never get a "cake walk" to the semi-finals like "(fill in the blank) does all the time."

I concur that a shake-up of some sort involving more than the MIAC seems to be shaping up, but a dissolution seems overkill. The easy answer for the MIAC is to get Mac back and move on. And by moving on, I mean to start working on building the conference up instead of tearing it to shreds. "Many hands make light work." We can do more together than by ourselves. "United we stand, divided we fall." You all get the picture.

[jamtod]

Dissolving the MIAC is not in anybody's best interest, if you were asking me. (And nobody is, so take it for what it is worth.)

As has already been mentioned, come playoff time the West is already loaded and we moan and complain that we never get a "cake walk" to the semi-finals like "(fill in the blank) does all the time."

I concur that a shake-up of some sort involving more than the MIAC seems to be shaping up, but a dissolution seems overkill. The easy answer for the MIAC is to get Mac back and move on. And by moving on, I mean to start working on building the conference up instead of tearing it to shreds. "Many hands make light work." We can do more together than by ourselves. "United we stand, divided we fall." You all get the picture.

Agreed, but I struggle to see how the building up (especially if it involves bringing MAC back) happens without the prerequisite booting of UST at this point. And if we assume that, do we assume that SJU gets a pass for it's aww shucks coach being a nice guy (including apparently being aww shucks about his assistant coach shoving opposing players on the sideline, but who's keeping tabs on that)?

[Warren Thompson]

There was a time, not too long ago, when St, John's v. St. Thomas comments in this room, though heated at times, were fairly innocent and sometimes even hilarious . Now it seems that things have deteriorated to downright nastiness and a middle-school level of insults. Surely you folks are better than this. At least I hope so.

[wm4]

Also, this isn't as simple as UST just dominates and everyone is sick of it.  There's a reason that football has caused this rift.  Personalities and behaviours matter.

So kick out a founding conference member from nearly 100 years ago because for the last 11 seasons the coach hasn't made friends w/ everybody? 

[jamtod]

There was a time, not too long ago, when St, John's v. St. Thomas comments in this room, though heated at times, were fairly innocent and sometimes even hilarious . Now it seems that things have deteriorated to downright nastiness and a middle-school level of insults. Surely you folks are better than this. At least I hope so.

I'm a little on edge about this and some life stuff (mostly not getting a ton of sleep with a 9 month old baby) so I apologize if my jabs are coming across as petty and nasty.
But if you really think that this is nastiness compared to the historical level of that rival, you need to stick around a bit longer.
For the most part, the Tommies and the Johnnies are on the same side in this, unless you believe that the entire source of the problem is that Coach Caruso doesn't fit with the Minnesota Nice mentality and hasn't made friends with everyone in the conference (although I believe there is a ton of mutual respect between him and many of the coaches and figures in the conference - including those most deserving of respect, ie Horan, Johnson, Fasching to some degree)

[BDB]

There was a time, not too long ago, when St, John's v. St. Thomas comments in this room, though heated at times, were fairly innocent and sometimes even hilarious . Now it seems that things have deteriorated to downright nastiness and a middle-school level of insults. Surely you folks are better than this. At least I hope so.

Lighten up, Francis!  These boys are all good. 

[jamtod]

There was a time, not too long ago, when St, John's v. St. Thomas comments in this room, though heated at times, were fairly innocent and sometimes even hilarious . Now it seems that things have deteriorated to downright nastiness and a middle-school level of insults. Surely you folks are better than this. At least I hope so.

Lighten up, Francis!  These boys are all good. 

We are either cheeky or tongue in cheek. Just depends on the day.

[OzJohnnie]

Also, this isn't as simple as UST just dominates and everyone is sick of it.  There's a reason that football has caused this rift.  Personalities and behaviours matter.

So kick out a founding conference member from nearly 100 years ago because for the last 11 seasons the coach hasn't made friends w/ everybody? 

Hey, I'm in the UST stays camp if Caruso can learn to play nice in the sandbox (choice four above).  I'm willing to live with Caruso doing trick plays in blowout conditions and faulting the Coalition of Losers for complaining.  But apparently eight teams, maybe nine, aren't.  One can call them all wusses and blame them for not liking the beatings  (essentially running a two-point conversion while up 70 points) or one can step back and ask, "I wonder if there's something I can do to resolve this situation and preserve a successful, 100-year-old institution?"

And while conisidering that, consider what this may mean to the students on all the other Tommie MIAC teams, men and women.  Must they sacrifice for the Tommie football team as well as the other MIAC schools?

[miac952]

It's interesting how time can make people forget things. Last Fall Caruso was well regarded coming out of the Johnnie game for how the UST team honored John. He attended the funeral that monday, wore a red tie, and pushed at least one Johnnie on this board up a hill in a dead golf cart. The rat pack brought his wife flowers for her cancer battle and the board was one big happy family.

But now you are bemoaning the devil incarnate to repent for all sins (some of which that have been completely made up) while highlighting Gags path to sainthood; conveniently forgetting Gagliardi's teams were slinging touchdown passes up 60+ with less than a minute in a game against the Hamline's and Carleton's of the world.

The MIAC has changed some, as has DIII. But it would certainly be a shame for the conference landscape, which has been a stable fixture in MN for some time, to permanently change over a personal vendetta against a football team and coach. I tend to believe the MIAC football coaches are good men and leaders of men. They certainly aren't all the same and some of have probably had missteps along the way. If the story is as it's portrayed by Reusse that would be unfortunate. There is no turning back.

[jamtod]

Also, this isn't as simple as UST just dominates and everyone is sick of it.  There's a reason that football has caused this rift.  Personalities and behaviours matter.

So kick out a founding conference member from nearly 100 years ago because for the last 11 seasons the coach hasn't made friends w/ everybody? 

Hey, I'm in the UST stays camp if Caruso can learn to play nice in the sandbox (choice four above).  I'm willing to live with Caruso doing trick plays in blowout conditions and faulting the Coalition of Losers for complaining.  But apparently eight teams, maybe nine, aren't.  One can call them all wusses and blame them for not liking the beatings  (essentially running a two-point conversion while up 70 points) or one can step back and ask, "I wonder if there's something I can do to resolve this situation and preserve a successful, 100-year-old institution?"

And while conisidering that, consider what this may mean to the students on all the other Tommie MIAC teams, men and women.  Must they sacrifice for the Tommie football team as well as the other MIAC schools?

One might also consider that a healthy majority of the demonizations of Caruso are pure BS. For example, the 2-pt conversion we ran against Olaf up 97-0 which was actually a kneel down (but recorded in the play by play as a 2-pt attempt) and many others. These have been repeatedly debunked but don't fit with the narrative about Caruso pushing your grandmother into traffic, so they are conveniently ignored. He's not a bad dude. Actually a pretty nice guy, and an intense football coach, but I don't think that's really something worth demonizing him for.

Yes, I can acknowledge that there are circumstances where he might run afoul of some generally accepted football decisions. I've also seen justifiable (and consistent) answers to those situations that again suggest that he's not a bad guy. We've rehashed these scenarios time and time again and there are varying viewpoints, all with some elements of validity (except for the rampant lies and stupidity that one might find abundant in a StarTribune comments section).

[OzJohnnie]

Sigh. Let me be clear, put me in front of a ballot box and I say UST stays. SJU much to my delight, has taken UST's ambitions on as a challenge and has risen in response.  I agree that the degree of respect between SJU and UST has always been high and well-earned (even if you are all filthy).

There are eight or nine very serious people (perhaps a big assumption) who are not. Who are so dissatisfied as to pursue what can be accurately characterised as a nuclear option.  They have never been this dissatisfied before in the last 100 years. To the best of our knowledge nothing like this has even come close to happening despite Johnnie football success, GAC tennis success, STO swimming (seem to remember that from my days), CON shucking or CAR Fortnite tourney domination.  So the only thing to conclude is that something is drastically different.

There are two possibilities: 1) UST's institutional ambitions have irrevocably diverged from the MIAC institutions's collective ambitions (BC of the Midwest, anyone?)" and the other schools feel something like those ambitions are contrary to their goals or, 2) people just really don't want to work with the UST football program anymore (as rumours here and on Ruesse have indicated).

If it's 1 then UST makes the case why their goals actually compliment the MIAC and sees what happens. Or they just walk away before the vote because UST also recognises the incompatibility.

If it's 2 and UST wants to stay in the MIAC then UST has best listen well and take appreciable steps to address whatever concerns are raised, because this vote does not look to be in their control.

[OzJohnnie]

(Also, if I seem a bit intense about this, I apologise.  I have two very similar situations that I'm dealing with in real-life.  Bringing parties together (or helping them shake hands and walk away gracefully) is hard, emotionally draining work ("You have emotions?  Ha!").  This is a very welcomed distraction from that tension.)