FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[skunks_sidekick]

Oh Hello My MIAC Friends!

Great read over the last umpteen posts.  Saint Glen manifested this dilemma with his attitude, gracelessness, and utter disdain when he is "in the moment".  He has explained/deflected/"apologized" for being "too into his team" more than once.  The institution has supported his approach from the jump so it becomes for UST do we go all in (probably their only choice) or do they make Saint Glenn do the sacrificial mea culpa hoping to survive the death purge and move on.  My bet is on Saint Glenn NOT doing any apologizes. 

[OzJohnnie]

TDT has been busy.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2019/04/09/21000-worth-panties-stolen-victorias-secret-capital-city-mall-police-say/

[OldAuggie]

With the potential deciding vote, Augsburg will either be among the COL, (Coalition Of Losers) or COW (Coalition Of Winners) but we don't know yet which way the vote will go. I like Texas Ole"s point about hockey as a factor because the MWC is not a hockey conference and STO just opened their state of the art hockey arena which cost $10M.

President Anderson has to be counting on UST leaving or he is planning to join the NCHA  (the travel would make this a bad idea) for hockey and the MWC for every other sport. 

Augsburg has major momentum with the hockey program recently, winning the Ed Saugestad Cup 4 years in a row (the MIAC Championship) and competing on a national level, finishing in the top ten each of those 4 years. Augsburg has an on campus ice arena that was recently updated so I don't see Augsburg President Pribbenow voting to leave the MIAC. I think Pribbenow will vote to keep the MIAC intact thus earning the status of COW. I am sure he would like to keep the rivalry with UST on the ice as it has grown in to a real rivalry, this year the action was fierce and some excellent hockey was on display. I don't see Augsburg letting that go.

[wally_wabash]

With the potential deciding vote, Augsburg will either be among the COL, (Coalition Of Losers) or COW (Coalition Of Winners) but we don't know yet which way the vote will go. I like Texas Ole"s point about hockey as a factor because the MWC is not a hockey conference and STO just opened their state of the art hockey arena which cost $10M.

President Anderson has to be counting on UST leaving or he is planning to join the NCHA  (the travel would make this a bad idea) for hockey and the MWC for every other sport. 

Augsburg has major momentum with the hockey program recently, winning the Ed Saugestad Cup 4 years in a row (the MIAC Championship) and competing on a national level, finishing in the top ten each of those 4 years. Augsburg has an on campus ice arena that was recently updated so I don't see Augsburg President Pribbenow voting to leave the MIAC. I think Pribbenow will vote to keep the MIAC intact thus earning the status of COW. I am sure he would like to keep the rivalry with UST on the ice as it has grown in to a real rivalry, this year the action was fierce and some excellent hockey was on display. I don't see Augsburg letting that go.

Paul Pribbenow? 

[OldAuggie]

With the potential deciding vote, Augsburg will either be among the COL, (Coalition Of Losers) or COW (Coalition Of Winners) but we don't know yet which way the vote will go. I like Texas Ole"s point about hockey as a factor because the MWC is not a hockey conference and STO just opened their state of the art hockey arena which cost $10M.

President Anderson has to be counting on UST leaving or he is planning to join the NCHA  (the travel would make this a bad idea) for hockey and the MWC for every other sport. 

Augsburg has major momentum with the hockey program recently, winning the Ed Saugestad Cup 4 years in a row (the MIAC Championship) and competing on a national level, finishing in the top ten each of those 4 years. Augsburg has an on campus ice arena that was recently updated so I don't see Augsburg President Pribbenow voting to leave the MIAC. I think Pribbenow will vote to keep the MIAC intact thus earning the status of COW. I am sure he would like to keep the rivalry with UST on the ice as it has grown in to a real rivalry, this year the action was fierce and some excellent hockey was on display. I don't see Augsburg letting that go.

Paul Pribbenow?

Yes.

[USTBench]

one just to see a good ole bloodletting.

Can you imagine?  The officiating crew will need to come heavy.  We won't have seen a game like this one since... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWAQ8rTBLUk

And can you imagine Caruso recruiting for it?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhpvvobULYA

The game won't even be played. Caruso, will pull the bus into Manitou Stadium, get on the hood, and deliver the following address:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPY5P0TaC4k

UST will then absorb St. Olaf's compound and oil.

[wally_wabash]

With the potential deciding vote, Augsburg will either be among the COL, (Coalition Of Losers) or COW (Coalition Of Winners) but we don't know yet which way the vote will go. I like Texas Ole"s point about hockey as a factor because the MWC is not a hockey conference and STO just opened their state of the art hockey arena which cost $10M.

President Anderson has to be counting on UST leaving or he is planning to join the NCHA  (the travel would make this a bad idea) for hockey and the MWC for every other sport. 

Augsburg has major momentum with the hockey program recently, winning the Ed Saugestad Cup 4 years in a row (the MIAC Championship) and competing on a national level, finishing in the top ten each of those 4 years. Augsburg has an on campus ice arena that was recently updated so I don't see Augsburg President Pribbenow voting to leave the MIAC. I think Pribbenow will vote to keep the MIAC intact thus earning the status of COW. I am sure he would like to keep the rivalry with UST on the ice as it has grown in to a real rivalry, this year the action was fierce and some excellent hockey was on display. I don't see Augsburg letting that go.

Paul Pribbenow?

Yes.

Very cool.  He did a lot of really good things at Wabash in the mid to late 90s.  I won't pretend to know how he stands on this MIAC situation, but you all certainly have great leadership at the top. 

[Gregory Sager]

I think there is something bigger brewing.  It is my understanding President Anderson has long wanted to rejoin the Midwest Conference.  Travel and costs were the major concerns and keeping the Oles in the MIAC.

Moving to the MWC makes zero sense. Two days ago I posted on this board the travel times from Northfield to the MWC campuses. Some of those trips simply can't be handled as anything other than overnights. Forget cost for a moment -- I can't imagine the St. Olaf faculty not being up in arms over the thought of Oles student-athletes missing so much class time. Half the point of being a D3 school is to avoid that kind of travel nonsense while school is in session. Not only does travel time undermine the argument for joining that league (academic cachet) by disrupting classwork, it also moves away from the best reason of all to maintain athletics ties with MIAC schools (proximity).

Presidents typically don't make decisions this big on a unilateral basis, especially if large sections of the school's constituency oppose it. And I can't picture large sections of St. Olaf's constitutency not opposing it.

Also there is a large group of Oles that view Luther as our main rival so if they are possibly joining the Midwest as someone commented that would intrigue some at Olaf.

I'm the one who brought up Luther. And you've misremembered what I said about that issue. Luther isn't "possibly joining the Midwest" at all. The MWC actively reached out to Luther (and to Coe) and was spurned.

Hearing that Augsburg may cast the deciding votes might give some insight to the issue.  What if this is more about graduate students playing sports?  I believe the MIAC is one of 2 conferences to not allow graduate or non-traditional students to participate in intercollegiate athletics.  UST has a large graduate program.  There are others who have seen there graduate programs grow.  Augsburg is one of those.  I know the graduate student eligibility has been an issue in the past, and I think St. Olaf along with a few others have stated they would leave immediately if that passed.  I think that might be one of the main issues with this vote.

Now, this makes sense. It's a pertinent issue to the MIAC crisis that I'm surprised nobody has brought up before.

If it weren't for travel costs and other risks I think St. Olaf would have left the MIAC a few years ago.  One of the reason for the new ice arena was travel.  There wasn't enough ice time in Northfield so the players (no team bus) were having to drive to other area arenas for practices.  The liability was getting too high.  St. Olaf wants to keep as many of teams on campus as much as possible especially for practices.  It makes it easier when putting together class schedules along with alleviating other issues.

... and yet you think that the head honcho at St. Olaf wants to move the school to a league where almost all of the other members are four, five, six, even seven hours distant.

[AO]

If the Oles brought 3 or 4 MIAC schools with them to their new conference, suddenly the travel isn't so bad.

Perhaps more teams should just consider doing what Macalester did and find new homes for their uncompetitive programs while remaining in the MIAC for most sports.

[Pat Coleman]

If the Oles brought 3 or 4 MIAC schools with them to their new conference, suddenly the travel isn't so bad.

Perhaps more teams should just consider doing what Macalester did and find new homes for their uncompetitive programs while remaining in the MIAC for most sports.

They would have to change the bylaws to allow for that. After Macalester left for football and did not return, the MIAC's rules on that were changed.

[AO]

If the Oles brought 3 or 4 MIAC schools with them to their new conference, suddenly the travel isn't so bad.

Perhaps more teams should just consider doing what Macalester did and find new homes for their uncompetitive programs while remaining in the MIAC for most sports.

They would have to change the bylaws to allow for that. After Macalester left for football and did not return, the MIAC's rules on that were changed.

The bylaws seem pretty malleable at the moment....

[GoldandBlueBU]

If the Oles brought 3 or 4 MIAC schools with them to their new conference, suddenly the travel isn't so bad.

Perhaps more teams should just consider doing what Macalester did and find new homes for their uncompetitive programs while remaining in the MIAC for most sports.

They would have to change the bylaws to allow for that. After Macalester left for football and did not return, the MIAC's rules on that were changed.

The bylaws seem pretty malleable at the moment....

[jamtod]

If the Oles brought 3 or 4 MIAC schools with them to their new conference, suddenly the travel isn't so bad.

I think this is a key. Somebody was emphasizing that each school would be deciding on it's own, for what is best for the individual school and not as a coalition. But these decisions are not made in a vacuum. There has to be communication and collaboration between the different factions as they consider their options - hopefully that's something UST and SJU could work together on if a major change happens. But the other schools are going to want to make sure they know what options they will have and who they could bring to another conference if that's what it comes to.

[USTBench]

If the Oles brought 3 or 4 MIAC schools with them to their new conference, suddenly the travel isn't so bad.

Perhaps more teams should just consider doing what Macalester did and find new homes for their uncompetitive programs while remaining in the MIAC for most sports.

They would have to change the bylaws to allow for that. After Macalester left for football and did not return, the MIAC's rules on that were changed.

Well, there is already a vote to change/amend the bylaws as it is.

I don't know if it is ONLY football spearheading these decisions, but it seems silly to disband an entire conference over lopsided outcomes in one sport. Yes, UST wins more than their fair share of conference titles in all sports, but football is a different animal, because it involves the physical imposition of someone's will over another human being.

St. Olaf, Carleton, Hamline and to a lesser extent, Augsburg, represent what the MIAC essentially was. We can blame UST for expediting the process to what 5/9 of the current MIAC landscape IS, perhaps ruthlessly, but SJU, Bethel, Concordia and Gustavus have made a decision to plow forward in an attempt to meet the gauntlet that has been thrown down, and all have either met the challenge or come EXTREMELY close a number of times.

I will concede that UST is not without criticism or blame in this, but they are hardly unbeatable if you are willing to commit the resources to beat them. St. Olaf is essentially putting pressure on SJU, Bethel, Concordia and Gustavus to regress, which is selfish and asinine. I don't see SJU and Bethel taking their foot off the gas, and I think Horan would rather die than shrink to the challenge of slaying his white whale.

Honestly, I think certain schools that sponsor football need to really start considering if it is wise to continue doing so, or if they perhaps belong in a different conference. As more and more information comes out about head injuries and high schools struggle to maintain their numbers of kids playing, some schools are just going to have to figure out alternatives to attracting male enrollment. I know this is might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the MIAC should consider discontinuing its sponsorship of football, remain status-quo for all other sports, and schools should spend the next two years finding conference landing spots or deciding whether or not to continue sponsoring football.

[wm4]

The fact is, my alma mater is no longer a peer institution to St. Olaf, Carleton or St. John's. These colleges have stayed much more committed to their liberal arts mission than St. Thomas. Defeating St. Olaf in football 97-0 isn't a good look, but at the end of the day, we just aren't in the same category anymore.

Stable athletic conferences are built on common identities. The Big Ten, for example, is an association of northern, research universities that legitimately see each other as peers. The Ivy League is a collection of elite, private universities that place emphasis on undergraduate education. This is in contrast to the MIAC, which consists of liberal arts colleges and St. Thomas

[/quote]

While that may have been how the B1G 10 was formed, from an athletics perspective that's not how it's held together now.  Rutgers and Maryland were not brought into the fold because of their research.  They were brought in because of tv markets, eyeballs and revenue streams.  Point being, conferences form, shift and evolve for several reasons.  The MIAC of today is not the MIAC of 75 years ago.  The notion of common identities change.  UST has made tremendous strides w/ its athletics and football in particular, while others have not.  If it's time to part ways, so be it.