FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

https://twitter.com/d3football/status/1118973132625317888

[gbpuckfan]

As an interested observer with no dog in the fight ... I get where the other schools are coming from... But, geez, invest in your programs and get better. Maybe the schools are too different to co-exist, I guess I don't know enough to say, but just seems wrong. My worthless $.02.

That said, could this be an example of why there was the discussion about Division 4 a few years ago? Big sports spenders (say, WIAC) vs. others who offer it but aren't ever going to be at that level (i.e. Lawrence).

[OzJohnnie]

https://twitter.com/d3football/status/1118973132625317888

Sounds like a loss to me.  Nine schools didn't line up. Maybe 8, though, so the issue is very raw.  They will continue to talk but UST didn't get the dagger this time.

The lobby effort, on both sides, will continue.

But the path of choosing mediocrity is doomed.  It's only a temporary salve.  The existential threat of a dramatically challenging educational landscape will persist, regardless of whether the MIAC implodes now or not.

[jamtod]

As an interested observer with no dog in the fight ... I get where the other schools are coming from... But, geez, invest in your programs and get better. Maybe the schools are too different to co-exist, I guess I don't know enough to say, but just seems wrong. My worthless $.02.

That said, could this be an example of why there was the discussion about Division 4 a few years ago? Big sports spenders (say, WIAC) vs. others who offer it but aren't ever going to be at that level (i.e. Lawrence).

Just curious. Which aspect of where the other schools are coming from do you "get"?

The public reasoning is enrollment, that UST is too big. But undergrad enrollment hasn't really grown significantly. Grad programs have grown but grad students aren't eligible for MIAC competition, so why does that matter?

[OzJohnnie]

SJU/CSB/UST/BU and any other institutions in the stay camp can really take some leadership (if it is correct that the stab in the dark has been avoided) and consider how to guide the MIAC into a dominant conference, rather than an association that has some dominant programs.  Coaching collaboration, conference oriented promotion and recruiting.

Think of the MIAC as a sporting body not unlike the NFL commission (only with more competence and less righteousness, please) who work to lift all boats.  Move the MIAC beyond a regulatory body and on to a promotional body.

Something like that.  Take this opportunity to offer a competing MIAC vision to STO's vision of decline, decay and head-burying.  Instead offer a vision of collaboration and promotion that offers the smaller institutions some value beyond an easy to schedule season and regular ass-kickings.

[Inkblot]

NAIA has the same AQ + at-large system to fill their 16 team field but there is definitely more parity.  They're also not seeding it perfectly since each school is paying for their own travel, rather than getting money from March Madness to fly across the country for free.

A conference/division champion has to be in the top 20 of the NAIA coaches' poll to receive an auto bid, which is a pretty big difference.

[AO]

https://twitter.com/d3football/status/1118973132625317888

Sounds like a loss to me.  Nine schools didn't line up. Maybe 8, though, so the issue is very raw.  They will continue to talk but UST didn't get the dagger this time.

The lobby effort, on both sides, will continue.

But the path of choosing mediocrity is doomed.  It's only a temporary salve.  The existential threat of a dramatically challenging educational landscape will persist, regardless of whether the MIAC implodes now or not.

The plan was always to have the discussion today and take the vote in May.  I believe Reusse's sources are just listening to the responses from each president to guess how they're voting.

As an interested observer with no dog in the fight ... I get where the other schools are coming from... But, geez, invest in your programs and get better. Maybe the schools are too different to co-exist, I guess I don't know enough to say, but just seems wrong. My worthless $.02.

That said, could this be an example of why there was the discussion about Division 4 a few years ago? Big sports spenders (say, WIAC) vs. others who offer it but aren't ever going to be at that level (i.e. Lawrence).

I really don't think it would matter how much Hamline and Macalester spent on locker room upgrades, they're still not going to compete with the Tommies for many recruits.  It's always more fun to win with guys who weren't as highly recruited.

[OzJohnnie]

The plan was always to have the discussion today and take the vote in May.  I believe Reusse's sources are just listening to the responses from each president to guess how they're voting.

I know the May vote was the procedure.  I'm merely saying that the MIAC's statements sounds like no "kick the dogs out" vote has been scheduled, instead the issue will continue to be discussed.

The Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC) Presidents' Council met on Thursday, April 18 for a discussion on philosophy, competition, and membership. The presidents of all 13 MIAC institutions attended and agreed to continue discussions at future meetings. No action was taken and no further details will be provided at this time.

"meetings", plural.  If a vote had been scheduled then I would expect that the statement would have said the issue will be concluded at the annual May presidents meeting which is for voting on things like this.

Instead, I expect the meeting was something along the lines of acknowledging there is a competition issue in the MIAC and that people are unhappy about it.  But they are really, really unhappy about how this has made the MIAC look like a bunch of kids fighting over the rules of a recess football game on the playground.

So they will continue to talk, this time like adults, and come to a reasoned conclusion rather than tossing their toys of of the cot as happened this time.

(or at least that's how it looks to me)

[gbpuckfan]

As an interested observer with no dog in the fight ... I get where the other schools are coming from... But, geez, invest in your programs and get better. Maybe the schools are too different to co-exist, I guess I don't know enough to say, but just seems wrong. My worthless $.02.

That said, could this be an example of why there was the discussion about Division 4 a few years ago? Big sports spenders (say, WIAC) vs. others who offer it but aren't ever going to be at that level (i.e. Lawrence).

Just curious. Which aspect of where the other schools are coming from do you "get"?

The public reasoning is enrollment, that UST is too big. But undergrad enrollment hasn't really grown significantly. Grad programs have grown but grad students aren't eligible for MIAC competition, so why does that matter?

Conferences are generally groups of similarly minded institutions, right? If they believe UST is has outgrown them - or changed to be different - maybe it makes sense. And maybe that's a red herring for "we're getting tired of losing." Which makes as much sense.

And, while, no the grad students don't compete, a larger institution can mean more resources, more alumni donations, etc. And, maybe Student X thinks "I have a better chance of getting into UST for grad school if I go there for undergrad," so it could be a recruiting advantage - or at least the perception thereof.

Again, I'm not close enough to know all of the details... those are my impressions...

[jamtod]

The plan was always to have the discussion today and take the vote in May.  I believe Reusse's sources are just listening to the responses from each president to guess how they're voting.

I know the May vote was the procedure.  I'm merely saying that the MIAC's statements sounds like no "kick the dogs out" vote has been scheduled, instead the issue will continue to be discussed.

The Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC) Presidents' Council met on Thursday, April 18 for a discussion on philosophy, competition, and membership. The presidents of all 13 MIAC institutions attended and agreed to continue discussions at future meetings. No action was taken and no further details will be provided at this time.

"meetings", plural.  If a vote had been scheduled then I would expect that the statement would have said the issue will be concluded at the annual May presidents meeting which is for voting on things like this.

Instead, I expect the meeting was something along the lines of acknowledging there is a competition issue in the MIAC and that people are unhappy about it.  But they are really, really unhappy about how this has made the MIAC look like a bunch of kids fighting over the rules of a recess football game on the playground.

So they will continue to talk, this time like adults, and come to a reasoned conclusion rather than tossing their toys of of the cot as happened this time.

(or at least that's how it looks to me)

Or perhaps the bylaw vote will happen in May and indications are that the bylaws will change to kick UST out, but discussions will continue to discuss the philosophy, competition, and membership of the conference at future meetings. It may even take an additional meeting after the bylaws change to say "Oh, look at this, UST is in violation of our new enrollment cap, motion to boot them? 2nd? The ayes have it."

[jamtod]

As an interested observer with no dog in the fight ... I get where the other schools are coming from... But, geez, invest in your programs and get better. Maybe the schools are too different to co-exist, I guess I don't know enough to say, but just seems wrong. My worthless $.02.

That said, could this be an example of why there was the discussion about Division 4 a few years ago? Big sports spenders (say, WIAC) vs. others who offer it but aren't ever going to be at that level (i.e. Lawrence).

Just curious. Which aspect of where the other schools are coming from do you "get"?

The public reasoning is enrollment, that UST is too big. But undergrad enrollment hasn't really grown significantly. Grad programs have grown but grad students aren't eligible for MIAC competition, so why does that matter?

Conferences are generally groups of similarly minded institutions, right? If they believe UST is has outgrown them - or changed to be different - maybe it makes sense. And maybe that's a red herring for "we're getting tired of losing." Which makes as much sense.

And, while, no the grad students don't compete, a larger institution can mean more resources, more alumni donations, etc. And, maybe Student X thinks "I have a better chance of getting into UST for grad school if I go there for undergrad," so it could be a recruiting advantage - or at least the perception thereof.

Again, I'm not close enough to know all of the details... those are my impressions...

I think that could be an accurate and reasoned portrayal of things, so I appreciate you clarifying (I didn't intend to be confrontational, so I hope didn't come across that way... I try to save that for the Johns). So much of the public whining has been tangential to those concerns. I'm still not convinced that UST is different enough from the other institutions to justify that as a cause for #TomToss, but the school has certainly taken on a long-term plan and made efforts for future positioning, particularly with the expansion of grad programs and athletics.

[Mr.MIAC]

I wonder how they arrived at 4000.

https://www.tommiemedia.com/news/st-thomas-stays-in-miac-after-presidents-take-no-action/

[OzJohnnie]

Or perhaps the bylaw vote will happen in May and indications are that the bylaws will change to kick UST out, but discussions will continue to discuss the philosophy, competition, and membership of the conference at future meetings. It may even take an additional meeting after the bylaws change to say "Oh, look at this, UST is in violation of our new enrollment cap, motion to boot them? 2nd? The ayes have it."

We'll know soon enough.  If the bylaw vote has been put on the May agenda then there's noway that stays quiet.  The agenda must be published a month out (which is now) and it will definitely leak.

Reusse, who has been following this to the minute on twitter, hasn't posted yet following the meeting's conclusion.  Perhaps he's trying to find out what that statement really means.  Maybe it's good stuff and he's saving the reveal for an article in the paper rather than for free on twitter.

[OzJohnnie]

I wonder how they arrived at 4000.

https://www.tommiemedia.com/news/st-thomas-stays-in-miac-after-presidents-take-no-action/

From that release it sounds like the vote met with defeat as they didn't vote.  No bylaw was changed and all continues.

The MIAC President’s Council met as scheduled Thursday to consider bylaw changes that could lead to St. Thomas’ expulsion, but no vote was taken.

In a written statement, MIAC Commissioner Dan McKane said discussions between the 13 institutions would continue at future meetings.

Prior to today’s meeting, multiple sources indicated the 13 school presidents would likely consider placing an enrollment cap of 4,000 undergraduate students on MIAC members.

St. Thomas has 6,336 undergraduates.

Perhaps Reusse's thumbs down for Kate's and Mary was them voting no.  So that was SJU/CSB/UST/BU/Kate/Mary.  Six no votes.  7 yes votes.  UST stays and the bylaws go unchanged.

Minnesota is the new Ireland.  (Plus an entirely enlightened BU)

[57Johnnie]

This old JOHNNIE does not believe Tomtoss will be approved.
SJU will spearhead the opposition.

Correct at least temporarily!