FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Texas Ole]

I'm thinking D2 and the Northern Sun.

I'd be surprised if the ARC wanted to add UST ... and life as an indie is miserable in D3. Just ask our friends up at Finlandia about that.

You might be right. I think that if they were to go that route, it would only be a stop-gap measure. I can't see UST building long-term rivalries with any of those schools. Outside athletics they don't have much in common with UST.

A landing spot for a few years as there will be an opening:
The irony is their FB coach was at St. Olaf prior to taking the job at Augustana.
http://www.northernsun.org/news/2018/12/13/general-augustana-university-announces-a-goal-of-transitioning-to-division-i.aspx

Every school who has let OJ go has regretted it.  He is a great coach and a better person.  From the moment I met him at St. Olaf I knew the school was in a better position.  That belief only grew by the year.

[Mr.MIAC]

I get a kick out of the most recent Star Tribune article's comments section. Most commenters seem supportive of UST, but those who aren't tend to talk about enrollments and academic requirements. They say that UST is too large and doesn't focus on recruiting for academic excellence. UST supporters quickly counter by talking about how enrollment numbers don't matter at the college level because coaches aren't recruiting from the student body, and then cite all sorts of things meant to show UST's academic prowess, most notably employment rates and starting salaries after college.

Everyone seems to be missing the point. STO et al. don't have a problem with UST's enrollment just because it provides a larger pool of potential recruits.  They have a problem because the larger enrollment allows UST to match and/or supersede them athletically AND academically, which is its current trajectory.

Let's compare STO and UST. There's currently a two-point difference between the median ACTs at STO and UST. STO has roughly 3K undergraduates; 1.5K achieved a 29 or better on the ACT. UST has roughly 6K undergraduates; roughly 1.5K achieved a 29 or better on the ACT. In other words, these two schools have the same number of academically potent students on campus.

That being said, UST's larger enrollment affords it the opportunity to recruit students gifted in other ways (athletics) without greatly impacting its overall academic selectivity. STO's smaller enrollment offers far less leeway, and I don't see it being able and/or wanting to expand student numbers anytime soon. Places like STO with smaller enrollments can't accept many athletes with lower ACT scores without significantly diminishing their overall selectivity. Because of the larger enrollment, places like UST can recruit a sufficient number of less academically potent athletes and still remain highly selective.

There's nothing wrong with the way UST is positioned; nor is there a problem with it recruiting stellar athletes with less that optimal academic credentials. Doing so doesn't mean that it's less academic either. All the Ivy League schools do the same thing, as their athletes tend to have far lower academic qualifications than the other students on campus. STO et al. have a problem with UST because they don't have the same advantages.

[OzJohnnie]

The aug president said there would be no MIAC if UST stays. So, you're choosing between UST or a couple new small conferences with no AQ and only half a schedule. Which do you choose?

I don't take that statement as a fait accompli, I suppose.

Ok, then. Pretend it was a fit accompli and then answer the question. Sfury?

[sjusection105]

Pat, have you considered the loss of revenue you face as your most prolific message board in your digital empire suddenly will lose some of main topics and contend creating subjects?

[sfury]

The aug president said there would be no MIAC if UST stays. So, you're choosing between UST or a couple new small conferences with no AQ and only half a schedule. Which do you choose?

I don't take that statement as a fait accompli, I suppose.

Ok, then. Pretend it was a fit accompli and then answer the question. Sfury?

Again, in a self-created crisis like this (it's not like the U.S. Senate is holding hearings and demanding the MIAC do something to fix the Tommies' dominance in the Durenberger standings), I don't think it's even worth answering that question. It's like if a family member came into my house all mad at my dominance in family pingpong in the basement and said they were going to burn the place down unless I retired from the game. "Oh, so you'd rather lose your home than stop playing pingpong?" Well, I mean, I don't think those have to be the only two options. Can we stop and figure out a different solution?

And if those are the only two choices -- Tommies or MIAC -- and it's such a slam dunk now, shouldn't we be storming the gates at SJU to demand the school prez vote to oust the Tommies? Or is he choosing St. Thomas over the MIAC? Should we all be writing Hemesath emails asking whether he's choosing the purple folks in St. Paul over his love of the conference? Answer the question, Mr. President!

But since this is the internet and I'm not a school president and no one's going to withhold donations because of my answer, I would vote to keep the Tommies in, whether I was a bottom feeder or enjoyed life at the top with St. Thomas. Other schools are threatening to leave? All right, let them figure out their situation and we'll figure out how to move forward in the MIAC.

And in five years, when the conference is doing the same thing to the Johnnies, I'm going to vote the same way.

(To go back to another point: The Augsburg president said it. Yes, he did. In an email that we only know about because it was leaked by the person who received it. Is it asking so much for these folks to publicly explain all of this, point by point? If it's such a great case, if it's so blindingly obvious that this is the only solution to save the MIAC, why not just state those facts? Send Adlai Stevenson out there with a bunch of placards and satellite photos and stats about enrollment and budgets and roster sizes and two-point conversions and show everyone why this is the only way forward.)

[Pat Coleman]

Pat, have you considered the loss of revenue you face as your most prolific message board in your digital empire suddenly will lose some of main topics and contend creating subjects?

D3boards.com -- the entire site -- is about 6% of the annual D3sports.com revenue. You guys ain't makin' us rich or anything. 

[Mr.MIAC]

Pat, have you considered the loss of revenue you face as your most prolific message board in your digital empire suddenly will lose some of main topics and contend creating subjects?

D3boards.com -- the entire site -- is about 6% of the annual D3sports.com revenue. You guys ain't makin' us rich or anything. 

I might have missed it, but I haven't seen a D3football.com article about what's going on in the MIAC. It seems newsworthy, no?

[hazzben]

I'd love to see the bluff get called on "ust or else." But that's not the safe option.

Lose St Olaf, Mac, and Carlton. Pick up CSS & UNW. No net loss for FB and you've swapped Duluth for Northfield. The former is colder and an hour further away, shrug.

My gut says those three would jump ship and realize life/travel in the MWC is untenable.

The rumblings I've heard are that UNW has wanted a shot at MIAC membership for a long time. But that's actually a bad deal for Bethel. As it stands they are a unique cultural sell to student athletes in the MIAC. They lose that if UNW joins.

The media are howling about how diminished the MIAC and their media coverage will be without UST. Again, shrug. If SJU or Bethel or another school make a run in the playoffs, it'll get covered. I'm bummed UST is likely gone. But I don't buy the narrative that the MIAC will suddenly become mediocre-ville. Especially if UST goes D2 as I'd expect. They'll be recruiting a different kind of athlete and I'd assume it'll hurt recruiting in the short term. Those jumps aren't easy (see USF) and recruits tend to want to see the dust settle rather than be the guinea pig.

The real winners are GAC & the Cobbers. Two schools who have been right on the cusp but unable to get past UST. Their way to the post season just got easier.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat, have you considered the loss of revenue you face as your most prolific message board in your digital empire suddenly will lose some of main topics and contend creating subjects?

D3boards.com -- the entire site -- is about 6% of the annual D3sports.com revenue. You guys ain't makin' us rich or anything. 

I might have missed it, but I haven't seen a D3football.com article about what's going on in the MIAC. It seems newsworthy, no?

As we said on Twitter, the Strib is killing it. We couldn't do better.

[sfury]

For me the on-field/court stuff doesn't get me excited one way or the other. It's about the principle and precedent of the whole thing. The presidents weren't transparent. At all. In public or behind the scenes. And the precedent is awful for SJU, because when the conference comes after the Johnnies it's not going to matter if SJU somehow wins 77-0 games in a classier way than the Tommies. ("See, we kicked 11 extra points, and that's better than going for 2 when it was 75-0 with 38 seconds left.") It's going to be about the inherent advantages that exist at the school that make it easier to build athletic powers.

Of course, different schools in the conference have always had unfair advantages, going back forever. Remember one of Gagliardi's go-to stories was about SJU administration asking him if he could win without scholarships, back when the schools were NAIA. I would love to hear John's thoughts on all this whole situation, bleeped out if they ran in a family paper.

[Robert Zimmerman]

Johnnies win the MIAC automatic bid over GAC in baseball (4-3 in game one, suicide squeeze to go ahead in the 9th, 4-1 in game 2).  Johnnies win the MIAC automatic bids in football, basketball, and baseball this year.

[sfury]

Johnnies win the MIAC automatic bid over GAC in baseball (4-3 in game one, suicide squeeze to go ahead in the 9th, 4-1 in game 2).  Johnnies win the MIAC automatic bids in football, basketball, and baseball this year.

Oh, Mr. Bunt, how you must have enjoyed that.

(Background: In high school, Robert Zimmerman, ours, not the singer though maybe him too, took pride -- a lot of pride -- in his ability to lay down a solid bunt, a skill that even got recognized with a quote from our coach in the local paper.)

[OzJohnnie]

Johnnies win the MIAC automatic bid over GAC in baseball (4-3 in game one, suicide squeeze to go ahead in the 9th, 4-1 in game 2).  Johnnies win the MIAC automatic bids in football, basketball, and baseball this year.

The suicide squeeze is my favourite play in baseball. Perfect way to win the qualifier.

[Capn34]

Talked with my old roomate who works for SJU to get his take and what he is hearing the schools take is on this situation.  He stated that SJU is for the strongest MIAC possible and the strongest MIAC includes Saint Thomas.  Other schools should probably realize that the best thing for the conference is for it to be the strongest it can be athletically and academically. 

[AO]

The rumblings I've heard are that UNW has wanted a shot at MIAC membership for a long time. But that's actually a bad deal for Bethel. As it stands they are a unique cultural sell to student athletes in the MIAC. They lose that if UNW joins.

Is this like a Vegas Golden Knights franchise draft situation where we can make a deal for 2 of your better players in every sport if we promise not to take one of your recruits?   

I love reading all the unique ideas attempting to keep the Tommies in the league but it sounds to me like this fight has been over for some time.