FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sjusection105]

The rumblings I've heard are that UNW has wanted a shot at MIAC membership for a long time. But that's actually a bad deal for Bethel. As it stands they are a unique cultural sell to student athletes in the MIAC. They lose that if UNW joins.

But I don't buy the narrative that the MIAC will suddenly become mediocre-ville. Especially if UST goes D2 as I'd expect. They'll be recruiting a different kind of athlete and I'd assume it'll hurt recruiting in the short term. Those jumps aren't easy (see USF) and recruits tend to want to see the dust settle rather than be the guinea pig.

The real winners are GAC & the Cobbers. Two schools who have been right on the cusp but unable to get past UST. Their way to the post season just got easier.

Great points. I'd add SJU to the winners column with the Cobber & Gusties. Currently in many cases in Football,Basketball,Golf, Hockey & Baseball recruits narrow choices to UST & SJU.
It's also interesting to note Concordia,Gustavus & SJU are all schools outside the Twin Cities area.

[Mr.MIAC]

I suppose it depends on how we define mediocre-ville. There are variables outside quality of play that contribute to the MIAC experience, which is likely to become more mediocre

The MIAC will receive far less media attention without UST. The Star Tribune and Pioneer Press concentrate the vast majority of their MIAC reporting on whatever's happening with UST. That will be gone. WCCO broadcasts MIAC games. That will be done. There will be no more Tommie/Johnnie game attracting local and national media attention. Meanwhile, UST will be embarking on a new journey in DII with the likely goal of transitioning to DI as soon as it's feasible. Minnesota has been aching for another DI school, and the way this whole thing has come about is newsworthy, so the media will be paying lots more attention to UST.

The public will perceive the MIAC as more mediocre without UST. The optics of this whole thing is terrible for the MIAC, which (outside SJ2 and Bethel) now looks like a bunch of schools satisfied with mediocrity. Aside from friends and family, who will want to dedicate financial and emotional resources supporting teams that want to be mediocre? Meanwhile, UST looks like a team focused on excellence, one worth supporting, and the move to DII will only broaden its fan base. If UST is successful in DII, it makes the MIAC even less relevant. I see a lot of money flowing into UST to ensure its success in this new endeavor.

Many of the most talented recruits, both general students and student athletes, will be drawn away from the MIAC. Students are attracted to UST because of the academics, campus environment, career opportunities, and community. Student athletes are also attracted to coaches and the culture they've created. None of these things will go away with a move to DII, and higher profile athletics will serve to amplify UST's existing strengths. UST might be targeting different athletes with a move to DII, but many of the best MIAC athletes had DII offers and/or came from DII or DI schools. UST will be offering some of the best things about the MIAC experience, plus an opportunity to be more athletically competitive and receive an athletic scholarship. That's going to draw top talent that would otherwise consider the MIAC. There will be some growing pains that might hinder recruiting, but it's not like UST is some unknown upstart; it's one of the most influential universities in the region.

Will the quality of play in the MIAC become more mediocre without UST? It will. Will it totally go to sh*t? No.

[OzJohnnie]

If there were so much obvious upside for UST outside of the MIAC then why are they and Tommie supporters here arguing so hard to keep them in?

[Mr.MIAC]

If there were so much obvious upside for UST outside of the MIAC then why are they and Tommie supporters here arguing so hard to keep them in?

It's a matter of timing.

[D O.C.]

599 responses to the Trib article. 

[TheChucker]

If there were so much obvious upside for UST outside of the MIAC then why are they and Tommie supporters here arguing so hard to keep them in?

It's a matter of timing.

How so? I think some of the issue is that other schools have expected the Tommies to move up on their own since the 2000s but never have.

[Smitty Oom]

So if they do go D2, what will happen to the secondary sports at UST, such as men's swimming & diving, men's soccer as well as hockey for both genders, as it appears that the NSIC does not support these sports. Also, going to D2 will be quite expensive due to travel, scholarships, etc., will any of those sports, or others such as tennis/golf/etc. get the ax?

I may have missed this as I did not read a couple pages of posts and don't feel catching up to see if this was discussed.

[sjusection105]

So if they do go D2, what will happen to the secondary sports at UST, such as men's swimming & diving, men's soccer as well as hockey for both genders, as it appears that the NSIC does not support these sports. Also, going to D2 will be quite expensive due to travel, scholarships, etc., will any of those sports, or others such as tennis/golf/etc. get the ax?

I may have missed this as I did not read a couple pages of posts and don't feel catching up to see if this was discussed.

Not discussed here yet. To be determined is my guess. I'm not sure if they could still play an independent schedule in ice hockey.

[hazzben]

UST's entire recruiting approach will change dramatically. You get a very limited number of dollars to allocate to athletic scholarships.  Kids that want to play D2 want to say they got an athletic scholarship. UST won't be signing classes of 40-50 players at the D2 level.

D2 programs don't have walk-ons the way D1 does. If a kid is being recruited to play at the scholarship level and then offered a great aid package that doesn't include an athletic scholarship, it says "you aren't a top recruit for us." Those kids go elsewhere. Caruso can't recruit a kid just to keep him from Mankato or St Cloud St.

And if UST wants to keep recruiting the kind of athletes they have been up until now, more power to them. But they are going to struggle in the NSIC, especially in the trenches. To be competitive with NSIC schools and schools like Northwest Missouri State and Grand Valley, they will absolutely have to be recruiting another caliber of athlete. And because of that, there will be more athletes of their current recruiting caliber for other MIAC  schools. Bank on it.

I don't doubt UST is gonna be all in on competing & winning if they jump to D2. But a number of their baked in advantages will disappear as well. I've seen D2 national championship caliber teams up close and been to a few national title games. UST's best team would have been on the wrong end of a double monkey stomp by either team in the game I saw a couple years ago.

Ust will still be UST and the campus experience and culture will remain intact. But don't think for a minute that D2 isn't going to have an affect too. It won't be the MIAC, it won't be the D3 student athlete experience. Plenty of those kids choose D3 and a MIAC school because they didn't want the D 2 environment. I know I did. There's no way UST won't absorb some of that when/if  they jump from D3. Again, I don't want them to be forced out. But D3 and the MIAC and the individual schools are drastically less dependent on UST's presence than your picture paints. 

[OzJohnnie]

On a semi-serious note regarding GoT (and I know a few here follow) there's quite a bit of complaining that the show is declining. Perhaps, but I don't see it. The first five seasons were extremely engrossing character development series where the action moved the characters forward, the story almost secondary (and often quite slow).  Now the action moves the story forward and the character development is set. Either the characters we have can deal with the bad dudes or not, but there is no time remaining for characters to grow. The dead are walking. The heroes have the tools available to them and they'll either live (a couple) or die (almost everyone) by what they have.

So I'm actually not unhappy with that change. It's necessary to bring the sorry to a conclusion.

Gah!  This post didn't age well.  I'm not the only person in the world who forgave a whole lot of bad GoT to see how the larger story finished.  Underlying my forgiveness above was the belief that the fantasy story line was the point of the story.  I learned different.  I doubt another show with so many characters and seperate but intertwined plot lines will ever see the light of day again.  That's a bummer, man.

[repete]

599 responses to the Trib article. 

And, yet some troll (probably from a d2 school) will always post: "People care about MIAC football?"

Did not read all the comments, but I bet that remark -- or something similar -- is among the 599.

[Pat Coleman]

So if they do go D2, what will happen to the secondary sports at UST, such as men's swimming & diving, men's soccer as well as hockey for both genders, as it appears that the NSIC does not support these sports. Also, going to D2 will be quite expensive due to travel, scholarships, etc., will any of those sports, or others such as tennis/golf/etc. get the ax?

I may have missed this as I did not read a couple pages of posts and don't feel catching up to see if this was discussed.

Not discussed here yet. To be determined is my guess. I'm not sure if they could still play an independent schedule in ice hockey.

It is possible they could put a schedule together, but there is no Division II hockey championship whatsoever. Only a handful of D-II schools sponsor hockey, and many of them play hockey in Division I.

[faunch]

Nothing to see here: https://twitter.com/MIACathletics/status/1127991496894971904

[OldAuggie]

Bloomington Jefferson is Big Time Johnnie/Tommie territory:

http://www.startribune.com/petition-to-keep-st-thomas-in-miac-comes-from-rival-st-johns-student/509855702/

[hazzben]

Another potential loser in UST getting the boot are the historic Tommie athletes.

If UST goes D2 (and especially if that precedes a D1 jump), it will diminish the accomplishments of the former d3 athletes. Let's assume they jump to D2 and have moderate success, a football team on par with Minnesota St in recent years. Imagine the conversations: "This is Fritz Waldvogel, he's a former UST all American at WR" ... "Oh, nice! I have a co-worker who was a d2 All American at UMD!" ..."No, Fritz played when they were D3."  thud

Do all the records now have an asterisk by them, denoting that this was a record set when UST was a D3 institution? If not, do people just talk in low tones about how the new stud RB finished 3rd all time in rushing, "but really he's #1 when you take out the D3 numbers."

I've seen it at other schools that have made the jump. It won't happen overnight. But eventually records and conference titles and All Americans from the D3 era will appreciated, but with less fervor than their D2 or D1 counterparts.