FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Ryan Stoppable]

I don't have a horse in this race, but a couple snippets of the conference's statement jumped out at me:

The MIAC Presidents' Council cites athletic competitive parity in the conference as a primary concern.

"It's not you, it's us." Wow, this looks...rather pathetic now that they actually came out and said it. There are other conferences that have dominant teams, more.dominant that UST is/was in the MIAC - do you see them kicking those teams out, or trying to rise to the challenge?

To which conferences do you refer, Ryan?

To be honest, I can't think of another D3 league that has an all-sports competition history that's this lopsided in favor of one school. But I'll be honest -- I may be overlooking one.

Pat, can you think of another D3 league that has an all-sports competition history that's more lopsided in favor of one school than this, especially over the last decade and a half?

Note: This is not a comment upon the decision that the MIAC presidents made today, in regard to which I am totally neutral. Like Ryan, I have no horse in this race. Your own business is your own business, MIACers. I'm simply trying to get the facts straight.

Wartburg College has won 17 straight IIAC / ARC All Sports titles. Tied 2 times but more times that not,  Men and women sweep.
http://rollrivers.com/sports/2010/8/11/GEN_AllSportsTrophy.aspx?

Very impressive, and similar to UST's dominance in the MIAC. Again, though, Ryan's post was about other schools being more dominant than UST in the MIAC -- and that's not the case with Wartburg and the IIAC/ARC.

I'm not actually sure which conference(s) I refer to. I wasn't aware how dominant UST had historically been in the MIAC across all sports, and I was also thinking along the lines of individual sports rather than an athletic department as a whole.

[sfury]

Not sure what to tell ya or why you don't believe the poster who occasionally writes here who was actually in these backroom discussions and says, yes, it's about football and Glenn Caruso. But I guess we can keep having these discussions about 7,000 athletes and the future of liberal arts educations.

[hazzben]

It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

I sent a message to Duffman back in February (??) telling him this was brewing, that Anderson was driving it, and that 97-0 was the spark. There are plenty of people tied into Olaf, the administration, and the athletics office who, off the record, have straight up said how pissed Anderson was.

No one loved UST dominating all the sports. But when football was added, it got more visible (just the way the world works, the Strib is much more likely to cover football playoffs than tennis). Add in the way Caruso was winning, and that's definitely what is driving this. Or at least took it to the point where people suddenly cared about the broader dominance.

[DuffMan]

It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

What he said.

Greg, I've find it a little odd that you'd never made a MIAC post prior to this TomToss debacle, yet now you are staking claims as an authority on it.

[DuffMan]

I bet the game is really tame. UST will be showing themselves to whomever their new conference partners will be. And they will want to show themselves as good sports who don't do petty revenge, particularly if they are moving up divisions. My guess is STO don't score but UST win by less than 60.

Part of me agrees with you, but the other part of me says that St. Glenn has never cared what anyone thinks of him, so why start now?

[hazzben]

I bet the game is really tame. UST will be showing themselves to whomever their new conference partners will be. And they will want to show themselves as good sports who don't do petty revenge, particularly if they are moving up divisions. My guess is STO don't score but UST win by less than 60.

Part of me agrees with you, but the other part of me says that St. Glenn has never cared what anyone thinks of him, so why start now?

I hope it's the latter 

[JCUStreaks70]

Just for the sake of adding my two cents (not worth much, I know), I say we use this an opportunity to make a Catholic-Mega-Conference composed of the following...

St. Thomas
St. John's
John Carroll
St. Norbert
Benedictine
Catholic
St. John Fisher
St. Scholastica
St. Vincent
Mt. St. Jospeh
Loras

[faunch]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[miac952]

It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

What he said.

Greg, I've find it a little odd that you'd never made a MIAC post prior to this TomToss debacle, yet now you are staking claims as an authority on it.

This is most definitely tied to football. There are primary sources from the strib and otherwise that worked for MIAC athletic institutions posting on here. I don't really get why those outside the MIAC with little knowledge banging there head against the wall stating otherwise. The irony in all of this is Anderson hired the same UST football coaches that kicked his teeth in. The irony is Anderson had Meidt rolling up 80+ points on teams little more than five years ago.  He also has facilities, coaches, and administrators that rival UST's and the upper echelon of D3 athletic departments. It's personal with him, and he apparently found a captive enough audience with other conference members.

[Gregory Sager]

It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

I sent a message to Duffman back in February (??) telling him this was brewing, that Anderson was driving it, and that 97-0 was the spark. There are plenty of people tied into Olaf, the administration, and the athletics office who, off the record, have straight up said how pissed Anderson was.

No one loved UST dominating all the sports. But when football was added, it got more visible (just the way the world works, the Strib is much more likely to cover football playoffs than tennis). Add in the way Caruso was winning, and that's definitely what is driving this. Or at least took it to the point where people suddenly cared about the broader dominance.

It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

What he said.

Greg, I've find it a little odd that you'd never made a MIAC post prior to this TomToss debacle, yet now you are staking claims as an authority on it.

I'm not staking any claims to authority at all. Just the opposite, in fact. I'm simply trying to piece together all of the information that has been presented, keeping in mind that the people presenting the information from various sides have biases, agendas, and ulterior motives behind what they're saying (and, perhaps more importantly, what they aren't). And, no, I'm not pointing the finger any anybody in particular on this board. I simply don't know enough about any of you -- or about the situation itself -- to do that, even if I wanted to. I'm just talking about basic human nature here.

I've followed all of the football-based comments very carefully. I'm not discounting that there is a strong possibility that there is some truth behind them -- particularly since they do appear to be coming from independent sources rather than from an echo chamber. But at the same time, the presidents appear to be saying something different (although, again, they aren't really spelling out their reasoning in detail). And, yes, I'm aware that college presidents are as capable of spinning a narrative as is anybody else.

In short, I have no basis to make any declarative statements at all regarding this situation, other than:

1) D3 doesn't operate like D1, in that administrations on this level dictate policy to football, rather than the other way around;
2) The MIAC presidents have hinted very strongly, without actually putting a fixed timetable to it, that at some level the crisis predates that 97-0 game;
3) The MIAC presidents are hurting themselves in terms of public relations by not being more forthcoming; and
4) This severance does take place within: a) a larger national context of a collegiate enrollment crisis, particularly among small liberal arts colleges; and b) a local context that involves a shift in comparative size (and possibly enrollment and financial-aid policies) between UST and its erstwhile sister schools in the MIAC. How much these contexts affect the issue remains sheer speculation, again given the absence of any further commentary from the MIAC presidents.

Again, I'm just an outside observer trying to sift through a lot of second-hand info, hearsay, and utter silence.

[emma17]

It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

What he said.

Greg, I've find it a little odd that you'd never made a MIAC post prior to this TomToss debacle, yet now you are staking claims as an authority on it.

If St. Thomas' greatest margin of victory over the last five years in-conference was 40 points, even with all their All-Sports titles, would this conversation be happening?

[Just Bill]

Would the ARC be a good fit for them? Don't know if they have any hockey programs. At least with the WIAC the men's would have the automatic qualifier if St. Thomas went that route.

The ARC doesn't sponsor hockey -- either men or women -- and none of the ARC schools sponsor teams in either one of those two sports.

My read is that hockey -- both genders -- will pose a considerable problem for UST to find a proper fit if it doesn't get an invite to join the WIAC.

My guess is the WIAC would gladly take St. Thomas hockey as an affiliate member for men and women, even if they don't settle there as a full member.

[hazzben]

And, yes, I'm aware that college presidents are as capable of spinning a narrative as is anybody else.

From what I've seen with this PR debacle, you're probably giving several MIAC presidents way too much credit 

[57Johnnie]

I've been a Johnnie for 66 years and am sad to see the MIAC sink to this level.

[jamtod]

It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

What he said.

Greg, I've find it a little odd that you'd never made a MIAC post prior to this TomToss debacle, yet now you are staking claims as an authority on it.

If St. Thomas' greatest margin of victory over the last five years in-conference was 40 points, even with all their All-Sports titles, would this conversation be happening?

Out of curiosity, and I'm not suggesting it is necessary, but who was the last team to make a nationally competitive playoff run (let's say semifinals) without winning a single game by 40 points or more?

We can debate all day (and have for years) the finer points about the unwritten rules of what sportsmanship entails. We can also agree that there is a certain point at which taking your foot off the gas, benching starters after the first quarter, not letting your guys put it all out on the field (regardless of what the competition is giving to you) hurts you, especially if the aim is national competitiveness.