FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Mr.MIAC]

Let's say UST attracts some major donors to fund its athletic endeavors, gets the NCAA to waive the DII requirement, and makes a move to DI (FCS) in two years. Minnesota now has two DI football programs, the media coverage is huge, and plenty of Minnesotans are happy.

Would a DI UST draw fans away from the Gophers? If UST is successful in DI, would that diminish public interest in the Gophers?

Would it draw fans away from the MIAC? If SJ2 returns to form and dominates the MIAC, will they garner much attention outside the current fanbase?

I was around here quite a bit about a decade as ScoutTeamTommie - time has removed all memory of that login or email, so here I am!

To me, the UST -> Division I has always been and will always be fantasy for one reason alone, that reason being the athletic facilities. Even if they were somehow able to turn O'Shaughnessy Stadium into a 20,000+ seat facility, they would still have to go through massive renovations on  literally every single sports facility on campus to get them to a DI level. Even if the money was there, the land just isn't. I'm personally hoping for UST to join the WIAC so we can at least keep Tommie-Johnnie going.

What about Allianz Field? There's plenty of space on and around UST's Minneapolis campus.

[ScoutTeamTommie2]

Let's say UST attracts some major donors to fund its athletic endeavors, gets the NCAA to waive the DII requirement, and makes a move to DI (FCS) in two years. Minnesota now has two DI football programs, the media coverage is huge, and plenty of Minnesotans are happy.

Would a DI UST draw fans away from the Gophers? If UST is successful in DI, would that diminish public interest in the Gophers?

Would it draw fans away from the MIAC? If SJ2 returns to form and dominates the MIAC, will they garner much attention outside the current fanbase?

I was around here quite a bit about a decade as ScoutTeamTommie - time has removed all memory of that login or email, so here I am!

To me, the UST -> Division I has always been and will always be fantasy for one reason alone, that reason being the athletic facilities. Even if they were somehow able to turn O'Shaughnessy Stadium into a 20,000+ seat facility, they would still have to go through massive renovations on  literally every single sports facility on campus to get them to a DI level. Even if the money was there, the land just isn't. I'm personally hoping for UST to join the WIAC so we can at least keep Tommie-Johnnie going.

What about Allianz Field? There's plenty of space on and around UST's Minneapolis campus.

Allianz Field would definitely be an interesting option. But at 20,000 seats it's probably about the bare minimum they would need to satisfy a DI program.

As for the Minneapolis campus... it's in the heart of downtown. I'm not sure I could think of a place with less room to expand.

[miac952]

It will be an undertaking but there are plenty of creative ways to meet the D1 facility requirements if that is the route taken. If football is non-scholarship, then the faculty requirements really don't change much.

There are a lot of land locked, smaller, DI, urban private universities that make it work. San Diego, Seton Hall, Creighton, SLU, Tulane, etc.

The one end of the basketball arena near the ticket office of the AARC was designed for expansion in mind. The wall can be opened up with additional seating. You add chairbacks to more seats and create entrances from the top down on the main side. For Baseball and Softball they could look at a land deal on the Ford Plant site set for development with Ryan Companies ( Pat is on UST Board with multiple kids that have gone through). They could make a deal with Allianz Stadium (McGuire on UST Board). If you ship track & field offsite it's a matter of adding modest seating for football on each end and updating the grandstand They could also wait for the inevitable financial crisis that will shrivel St Kate's down to nothing and gobble up part of that campus. Lots of $$ involved $60 -$120 million for facilities and scholarship support, but they have the right backers. And DI will bring more notoriety to fundraising. Augustana is making it work. UST can.

[Mr.MIAC]

Let's say UST attracts some major donors to fund its athletic endeavors, gets the NCAA to waive the DII requirement, and makes a move to DI (FCS) in two years. Minnesota now has two DI football programs, the media coverage is huge, and plenty of Minnesotans are happy.

Would a DI UST draw fans away from the Gophers? If UST is successful in DI, would that diminish public interest in the Gophers?

Would it draw fans away from the MIAC? If SJ2 returns to form and dominates the MIAC, will they garner much attention outside the current fanbase?

I was around here quite a bit about a decade as ScoutTeamTommie - time has removed all memory of that login or email, so here I am!

To me, the UST -> Division I has always been and will always be fantasy for one reason alone, that reason being the athletic facilities. Even if they were somehow able to turn O'Shaughnessy Stadium into a 20,000+ seat facility, they would still have to go through massive renovations on  literally every single sports facility on campus to get them to a DI level. Even if the money was there, the land just isn't. I'm personally hoping for UST to join the WIAC so we can at least keep Tommie-Johnnie going.

What about Allianz Field? There's plenty of space on and around UST's Minneapolis campus.

Allianz Field would definitely be an interesting option. But at 20,000 seats it's probably about the bare minimum they would need to satisfy a DI program.

As for the Minneapolis campus... it's in the heart of downtown. I'm not sure I could think of a place with less room to expand.

There's open space on UST's Minneapolis campus, which is surrounded by parking lots. I'm sure some of these parcels could be acquired. Plus UST owns other vacant property downtown.

[jamtod]

It will be an undertaking but there are plenty of creative ways to meet the D1 facility requirements if that is the route taken. If football is non-scholarship, then the faculty requirements really don't change much.

There are a lot of land locked, smaller, DI, urban private universities that make it work. San Diego, Seton Hall, Creighton, SLU, Tulane, etc.

I can't speak much to the other schools, but Creighton doesn't have football (or hockey either?). They have a soccer program but that doesn't require significant seating (co-worker played soccer there his freshman year and said attendance was around 4k so quite a bit more than I thought).

[Walter Eagle]

Let's say UST attracts some major donors to fund its athletic endeavors, gets the NCAA to waive the DII requirement, and makes a move to DI (FCS) in two years. Minnesota now has two DI football programs, the media coverage is huge, and plenty of Minnesotans are happy.

Would a DI UST draw fans away from the Gophers? If UST is successful in DI, would that diminish public interest in the Gophers?

Would it draw fans away from the MIAC? If SJ2 returns to form and dominates the MIAC, will they garner much attention outside the current fanbase?

I was around here quite a bit about a decade as ScoutTeamTommie - time has removed all memory of that login or email, so here I am!

To me, the UST -> Division I has always been and will always be fantasy for one reason alone, that reason being the athletic facilities. Even if they were somehow able to turn O'Shaughnessy Stadium into a 20,000+ seat facility, they would still have to go through massive renovations on  literally every single sports facility on campus to get them to a DI level. Even if the money was there, the land just isn't. I'm personally hoping for UST to join the WIAC so we can at least keep Tommie-Johnnie going.

What about Allianz Field? There's plenty of space on and around UST's Minneapolis campus.

Allianz Field would definitely be an interesting option. But at 20,000 seats it's probably about the bare minimum they would need to satisfy a DI program.

As for the Minneapolis campus... it's in the heart of downtown. I'm not sure I could think of a place with less room to expand.

There's open space on UST's Minneapolis campus, which is surrounded by parking lots. I'm sure some of these parcels could be acquired. Plus UST owns other vacant property downtown.

Anyone know the financial situation for Town and Country Club golf course on Marshall and Cretin?  There is all the land you would need for a major campus expansion.

[TheChucker]

Let's say UST attracts some major donors to fund its athletic endeavors, gets the NCAA to waive the DII requirement, and makes a move to DI (FCS) in two years. Minnesota now has two DI football programs, the media coverage is huge, and plenty of Minnesotans are happy.

Would a DI UST draw fans away from the Gophers? If UST is successful in DI, would that diminish public interest in the Gophers?

Would it draw fans away from the MIAC? If SJ2 returns to form and dominates the MIAC, will they garner much attention outside the current fanbase?

I was around here quite a bit about a decade as ScoutTeamTommie - time has removed all memory of that login or email, so here I am!

To me, the UST -> Division I has always been and will always be fantasy for one reason alone, that reason being the athletic facilities. Even if they were somehow able to turn O'Shaughnessy Stadium into a 20,000+ seat facility, they would still have to go through massive renovations on  literally every single sports facility on campus to get them to a DI level. Even if the money was there, the land just isn't. I'm personally hoping for UST to join the WIAC so we can at least keep Tommie-Johnnie going.

What about Allianz Field? There's plenty of space on and around UST's Minneapolis campus.

Allianz Field would definitely be an interesting option. But at 20,000 seats it's probably about the bare minimum they would need to satisfy a DI program.

As for the Minneapolis campus... it's in the heart of downtown. I'm not sure I could think of a place with less room to expand.

Just an FYI... average FCS attendance is 8,220. So 20,000 seats might actually be a bit much. Two schools averaged a blip over 20,000: Montana and James Madison.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2017.pdf

[jamtod]

Former UST All American lineman Curtis James (one of those reviled "D1 castoffs" that we've heard so much about) has issued his St Thomas Athletic Manifesto
https://twitter.com/HuntTheBigBear/status/1131774132532776960

[Gregory Sager]

Lost in the SVP SportCenter piece was the brilliant mispronunciation of St Olaf as the dopey snowman from Frozen. Likely unintentional, but quite funny nevertheless.

I was more stunned when he called them the "Oals" when listing off the nicknames.  Maybe he thought it was like adding an s to the Ole in "Ole Miss".

wait, it's not? Is it pronounced Oh-lees? or Ollies like Ollie North? How do you pronounce St. Olaf?

Help out this visiting Noo Yawka please.

OH-Leez
I suppose Sven and Ole jokes don't often make it East of Chicago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPlfmiO1rY

I was born and raised in upstate New York, and I heard enough Sven and Ole jokes there to last me a lifetime.

Then again, I was raised in a denomination that was founded by Swedish immigrants.

[WashedUp]

Let's say UST attracts some major donors to fund its athletic endeavors, gets the NCAA to waive the DII requirement, and makes a move to DI (FCS) in two years. Minnesota now has two DI football programs, the media coverage is huge, and plenty of Minnesotans are happy.

Would a DI UST draw fans away from the Gophers? If UST is successful in DI, would that diminish public interest in the Gophers?

Would it draw fans away from the MIAC? If SJ2 returns to form and dominates the MIAC, will they garner much attention outside the current fanbase?

I was around here quite a bit about a decade as ScoutTeamTommie - time has removed all memory of that login or email, so here I am!

To me, the UST -> Division I has always been and will always be fantasy for one reason alone, that reason being the athletic facilities. Even if they were somehow able to turn O'Shaughnessy Stadium into a 20,000+ seat facility, they would still have to go through massive renovations on  literally every single sports facility on campus to get them to a DI level. Even if the money was there, the land just isn't. I'm personally hoping for UST to join the WIAC so we can at least keep Tommie-Johnnie going.

What about Allianz Field? There's plenty of space on and around UST's Minneapolis campus.

Allianz Field would definitely be an interesting option. But at 20,000 seats it's probably about the bare minimum they would need to satisfy a DI program.

As for the Minneapolis campus... it's in the heart of downtown. I'm not sure I could think of a place with less room to expand.

20,000 would put you in the upper portion of FCS in terms of stadium size and at the very top of the Pioneer league, which is the conference that seems to be getting the most mention if the move to D1 is actually the route they go.  6,000-8,000 seats looks like it would be plenty for that level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_FCS_football_stadiums

[TheChucker]

Former UST All American lineman Curtis James (one of those reviled "D1 castoffs" that we've heard so much about) has issued his St Thomas Athletic Manifesto
https://twitter.com/HuntTheBigBear/status/1131774132532776960

Good read. Thanks for the link. I love the backstory. I have a quibble with this repeating theme I keep seeing... quote: "Even if after all this data and information you still feel that the University of St Thomas is outgrowing the MIAC, then you also must understand that any decision to leave should be their own." 

St. Thomas made it clear repeatedly over the years that it was happy with the current situation and was NOT going to leave on their own. Meanwhile, other schools made it clear they would leave the conference and realign versus stay with St. Thomas. So one way or the other, St. Thomas would be leaving the conference as we know it.

Now, what would have been really interesting is if UST called the other schools bluff and forced a vote. The schools that REALLY wanted change would have been forced to make other plans. But no, we get the current cluster $#@%.

[jamtod]

Former UST All American lineman Curtis James (one of those reviled "D1 castoffs" that we've heard so much about) has issued his St Thomas Athletic Manifesto
https://twitter.com/HuntTheBigBear/status/1131774132532776960

Good read. Thanks for the link. I love the backstory. I have a quibble with this repeating theme I keep seeing... quote: "Even if after all this data and information you still feel that the University of St Thomas is outgrowing the MIAC, then you also must understand that any decision to leave should be their own." 

St. Thomas made it clear repeatedly over the years that it was happy with the current situation and was NOT going to leave on their own. Meanwhile, other schools made it clear they would leave the conference and realign versus stay with St. Thomas. So one way or the other, St. Thomas would be leaving the conference as we know it.

Now, what would have been really interesting is if UST called the other schools bluff and forced a vote. The schools that REALLY wanted change would have been forced to make other plans. But no, we get the current cluster $#@%.

Yeah, I partially agree. There were elements of his manifesto that I don't really buy into. I kind of roll my eyes whenever the "participation trophy millennials" stuff gets brought up (especially because the university presidents involved are boomers).

And it's a stretch to suggest that we should absolutely 100% have had the opportunity to leave on our own. I do take issue with those who suggest that it was obviously the best decision to leave or the assumption we should have gone D1 or that this is clearly what is best for us.

[Gregory Sager]

It will be an undertaking but there are plenty of creative ways to meet the D1 facility requirements if that is the route taken. If football is non-scholarship, then the faculty requirements really don't change much.

There are a lot of land locked, smaller, DI, urban private universities that make it work. San Diego, Seton Hall, Creighton, SLU, Tulane, etc.

I can't speak much to the other schools, but Creighton doesn't have football (or hockey either?). They have a soccer program but that doesn't require significant seating (co-worker played soccer there his freshman year and said attendance was around 4k so quite a bit more than I thought).

Creighton's never averaged more than 3k for men's soccer, and the average almost always falls in the 2,000-to-2,700 range. And Creighton has a pretty good program for the D1 level.

Creighton's soccer stadium seats 7,500.

[Mr.MIAC]

Now this is an informative article:

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2019/05/st-thomas-is-too-good-for-the-miac-says-the-miac-so-where-do-the-tommies-go-from-here/

[TheChucker]

Now this is an informative article:

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2019/05/st-thomas-is-too-good-for-the-miac-says-the-miac-so-where-do-the-tommies-go-from-here/

Kudos to Pat Borzi the author. That article is probably the most informative and objective I've seen on the subject (almost all have had a high level of snark one way or another).

The most interesting to me "A MIAC source familiar with the Presidents' Council discussions told MinnPost seven institutions planned to leave the conference if St. Thomas remained: St. Olaf, Hamline, Augsburg, Carleton, Macalester, St. Mary's and St. Catherine's. Two more, Gustavus Adolphus and Concordia, considered joining them."