FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[jamtod]

Now this is an informative article:

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2019/05/st-thomas-is-too-good-for-the-miac-says-the-miac-so-where-do-the-tommies-go-from-here/

A MIAC source familiar with the Presidents' Council discussions told MinnPost seven institutions planned to leave the conference if St. Thomas remained: St. Olaf, Hamline, Augsburg, Carleton, Macalester, St. Mary's and St. Catherine's. Two more, Gustavus Adolphus and Concordia, considered joining them. All but St. Mary's and all-female St. Catherine's play football.

Where were Hamline, Augsburg, St. Mary's, and St Kate's (or Gustavus and Concordia) going to go? The UMAC can't take them all. I have a really hard time believing they would have had a viable chance to go somewhere but I would have liked to see them try. And it's difficult to square that with Augsburg's Pribbenow's comments which basically suggested somebody was holding a gun to his head. If this went south, a few of these schools had a place to go. The rest went along for the ride but would likely have been homeless (or stuck in a diminished MIAC).

[Mr.MIAC]

Now this is an informative article:

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2019/05/st-thomas-is-too-good-for-the-miac-says-the-miac-so-where-do-the-tommies-go-from-here/

Kudos to Pat Borzi the author. That article is probably the most informative and objective I've seen on the subject (almost all have had a high level of snark one way or another).

The most interesting to me "A MIAC source familiar with the Presidents' Council discussions told MinnPost seven institutions planned to leave the conference if St. Thomas remained: St. Olaf, Hamline, Augsburg, Carleton, Macalester, St. Mary's and St. Catherine's. Two more, Gustavus Adolphus and Concordia, considered joining them."

Here's another interesting tidbit:

Competition for male students is especially keen among private liberal arts colleges. Only undergrads are eligible in the MIAC, but too many presidents felt UST's athletic success and graduate school offerings — the law school and a soon-to-open nursing program, among others — gave the Tommies an edge in attracting men, whether athletes or not. That gap, they feared, would only grow wider. That meant fewer students for the others, and less revenue. Don't be surprised if a MIAC school closes or merges with another in the next ten years; that's where things are trending.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Lost in the SVP SportCenter piece was the brilliant mispronunciation of St Olaf as the dopey snowman from Frozen. Likely unintentional, but quite funny nevertheless.

I was more stunned when he called them the "Oals" when listing off the nicknames.  Maybe he thought it was like adding an s to the Ole in "Ole Miss".

wait, it's not? Is it pronounced Oh-lees? or Ollies like Ollie North? How do you pronounce St. Olaf?

Help out this visiting Noo Yawka please.

OH-Leez
I suppose Sven and Ole jokes don't often make it East of Chicago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPlfmiO1rY

I was born and raised in upstate New York, and I heard enough Sven and Ole jokes there to last me a lifetime.

Then again, I was raised in a denomination that was founded by Swedish immigrants.

Sven and Ole jokes went national (international?) with Garrison Keillor's old Prairie Home Companion show.  Huge numbers of people would be familiar with Sven and Ole.

[miac952]

Borzi is a gem of a writer in our backyard. His byline hits The NY Times every now and then. Looks like he is the first to get the President's shill, McKane, to say a word, even though it wasn't much.

As for Pribbenow, I suspect he was playing the political game with his donor and shifting the blame to someone else. His donor probably saw through that and released the email for that reason. I know one Augsburg coach that is disgusted with his President. With donors and coaches fed up Pribbenow might be running on borrowed time.

[jamtod]

As for Pribbenow, I suspect he was playing the political game with his donor and shifting the blame to someone else. His donor probably saw through that and released the email for that reason. I know one Augsburg coach that is disgusted with his President. With donors and coaches fed up Pribbenow might be running on borrowed time.

A fair point. I guess I should know better than to try to take these schister's at their word

[ron doney]

Objectively I see a long list of valid reasons UST's time in the MIAC was up. That is clear, and pieces of posts here over the last year capture that.

It left the league with two options; one, make a case to UST to help all boats rise with the tide or two, part ways. I think the strategic and long term leadership would have chose the first - but then again, those type of people don't settle for a job at St. Olaf.

So they chose the part ways route. And the national narrative of everyone gets a trophy has exploded around them - rightfully so. BECAUSE they've chose to remain silent and not take ACCOUNTABILITY for their decision.

That to me is the most interesting and telling angle on this whole thing. As I've said at the top, there are plenty of valid reasons for this evolution. So stand up, make the case, and own the decision. People may not agree with it - but, they'll respect it.

Ironically UST's rise has been built on a culture of accountability. Especially on the football team, where Caruso champions a push yourself until you make a mistake mantra, but you are accountable not to make that same mistake twice.  It's a culture that serves the graduates of St. Thomas in the real world (as SVP highlighted on SportsCenter).

The MIAC leadership and member presidents lack the accountability fitting with their positions. And that's a fault that should worry all invested in the future of that league. It will rot its existence from the inside out.

[Texas Ole]

So much to respond to today.  First of all if St. Thomas goes D1 it won't be that noticeable for the U unless they start beating them regularly and find themselves in a good conference.  TCU and SMU are about the same size as St. Thomas.  They don't share a major metropolitan area with UT or A&M, but if you compare numbers of fans in the area it doesn't even come close.  I can usually find more people going to Austin, Norman, and College Station than I can going to either one of those games.  There are high schools in DFW that outdraw SMU.  I don't think the U will even notice the competition.  The advantage is that it does give the U a good midweek baseball game if the Tommies elevate their baseball program to D1.

Facilities are going to be St. Thomas' biggest issue especially since they are landlocked.  Building a separate athletic campus is an option that some schools have utilized, but it deters from the experience.  Moving one or two sports off campus would help.  There is also the possibility of dropping sports which is less than ideal.  My guess is if St. Thomas goes the D1 route which I think best helps them grow as a school it will take a major investment with possibly every sport getting a facility upgrade.  If SJU wanted to follow St. Thomas I think they would have a much easier job due to their location.  The one key point is they don't need to build facilities like the Gophers.  They would need facilities that are comparable to other schools their size within the conference.

Where most of this probably is hardest to understand is that a group of adults just made a decision that will have a major effect on a group of teenagers.  I think several student-athletes at UST rightfully asked about their future.  They committed to a school where they could compete with many of the away games nearby.  In 3 years will their sport still exist at St. Thomas?  What will their academic and athletic experience look like their senior year?  Imagine if UST goes up a division some of these kids may not have spot on the roster.  That is a tough pill to swallow, and I feel for them.  I think many athletes at other schools are asking similar questions, but not to the extent of St. Thomas.

All of this being said there is a reason why there is a transition process.  I think UST knew this day could be coming.  There had been several articles in the Star Tribune over the years suggesting that might be time for St. Thomas to move out of the MIAC.  Logistically there just aren't many good solutions.  St. Thomas has 2 years to find a home.  That is a long time, but it will be fast.  WIAC is the easy move.  NSIC probably makes the most sense logistically.  I with UST the best of luck.  It was fun beating them when it happened.

[miac952]

What I would be most curious to see is what it would like if you surveyed the athletes of these schools. Based on the twittersphere it appears many Oles, Cobbers, etc are at odds with their school leaders decision. That could be slanted of course. I suspect a number of athletes, alumni, and coaches have a very different view from their President. And, if it's a majority are you truly serving your stakeholders as a leader?

[Texas Ole]

Now this is an informative article:

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2019/05/st-thomas-is-too-good-for-the-miac-says-the-miac-so-where-do-the-tommies-go-from-here/

A MIAC source familiar with the Presidents' Council discussions told MinnPost seven institutions planned to leave the conference if St. Thomas remained: St. Olaf, Hamline, Augsburg, Carleton, Macalester, St. Mary's and St. Catherine's. Two more, Gustavus Adolphus and Concordia, considered joining them. All but St. Mary's and all-female St. Catherine's play football.

Where were Hamline, Augsburg, St. Mary's, and St Kate's (or Gustavus and Concordia) going to go? The UMAC can't take them all. I have a really hard time believing they would have had a viable chance to go somewhere but I would have liked to see them try. And it's difficult to square that with Augsburg's Pribbenow's comments which basically suggested somebody was holding a gun to his head. If this went south, a few of these schools had a place to go. The rest went along for the ride but would likely have been homeless (or stuck in a diminished MIAC).

Are we talking about a new conference then?  With the new St. Olaf hockey arena I am a little baffled what would have happened with hockey.  I think the Midwest Conference was the preferred destination, and I would guess hockey would move to the NCHA.  Either way losing 4 football or hockey schools does a to of damage.  The only school to possibly add would have been St. Scholastica.

Objectively I see a long list of valid reasons UST's time in the MIAC was up. That is clear, and pieces of posts here over the last year capture that.

It left the league with two options; one, make a case to UST to help all boats rise with the tide or two, part ways. I think the strategic and long term leadership would have chose the first - but then again, those type of people don't settle for a job at St. Olaf.

So they chose the part ways route. And the national narrative of everyone gets a trophy has exploded around them - rightfully so. BECAUSE they've chose to remain silent and not take ACCOUNTABILITY for their decision.

That to me is the most interesting and telling angle on this whole thing. As I've said at the top, there are plenty of valid reasons for this evolution. So stand up, make the case, and own the decision. People may not agree with it - but, they'll respect it.

Ironically UST's rise has been built on a culture of accountability. Especially on the football team, where Caruso champions a push yourself until you make a mistake mantra, but you are accountable not to make that same mistake twice.  It's a culture that serves the graduates of St. Thomas in the real world (as SVP highlighted on SportsCenter).

The MIAC leadership and member presidents lack the accountability fitting with their positions. And that's a fault that should worry all invested in the future of that league. It will rot its existence from the inside out.

St. Olaf has taken a strong position on its academics.  Programs that take more than 4 years are usually axed pretty quickly.  It has cost us some teacher prep programs.  There are other programs where it is 3 at St. Olaf and then final two years you transfer to a different school similar to the Furman QB that attended Clemson.  I know this policy has put other programs on the chopping block.

[SJUrube]

I think several student-athletes at UST rightfully asked about their future.  They committed to a school where they could compete with many of the away games nearby.  In 3 years will their sport still exist at St. Thomas?  What will their academic and athletic experience look like their senior year?  Imagine if UST goes up a division some of these kids may not have spot on the roster.  That is a tough pill to swallow, and I feel for them.

Maybe those curious students can ask a follow up question that everyone covering this story has seemingly not answered which is what did UST try and do to stay in the MIAC?

In their own press release, which many outlets have included in their coverage, it stated "St. Thomas expended tremendous effort to remain in the MIAC and stabilize the conference," St. Thomas president Julie Sullivan said in a statement." There was a similar quote in the Borzi piece. So did he not ask the question or did he not get an answer? If it's the former that's bad journalism, if it's the latter that would be relevant piece of information to include.

[Mr.MIAC]

I just figured out why Anderson is so wary of a rising UST. He's seen this happen at a similar institution--Boston College--which awarded him a PhD back in the 1970s. At the time, Boston College was a regional university laying the groundwork for national prominence. Interesting...

Link: https://wp.stolaf.edu/president/bio/

[jamtod]

Now this is an informative article:

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2019/05/st-thomas-is-too-good-for-the-miac-says-the-miac-so-where-do-the-tommies-go-from-here/

A MIAC source familiar with the Presidents' Council discussions told MinnPost seven institutions planned to leave the conference if St. Thomas remained: St. Olaf, Hamline, Augsburg, Carleton, Macalester, St. Mary's and St. Catherine's. Two more, Gustavus Adolphus and Concordia, considered joining them. All but St. Mary's and all-female St. Catherine's play football.

Where were Hamline, Augsburg, St. Mary's, and St Kate's (or Gustavus and Concordia) going to go? The UMAC can't take them all. I have a really hard time believing they would have had a viable chance to go somewhere but I would have liked to see them try. And it's difficult to square that with Augsburg's Pribbenow's comments which basically suggested somebody was holding a gun to his head. If this went south, a few of these schools had a place to go. The rest went along for the ride but would likely have been homeless (or stuck in a diminished MIAC).

Are we talking about a new conference then?  With the new St. Olaf hockey arena I am a little baffled what would have happened with hockey.  I think the Midwest Conference was the preferred destination, and I would guess hockey would move to the NCHA.  Either way losing 4 football or hockey schools does a to of damage.  The only school to possibly add would have been St. Scholastica.

Probably. A new conference without St Thomas, maybe they'd call it the NEWMIAC.

[miac952]

Where most of this probably is hardest to understand is that a group of adults just made a decision that will have a major effect on a group of teenagers.  I think several student-athletes at UST rightfully asked about their future.  They committed to a school where they could compete with many of the away games nearby.  In 3 years will their sport still exist at St. Thomas?  What will their academic and athletic experience look like their senior year?  Imagine if UST goes up a division some of these kids may not have spot on the roster.  That is a tough pill to swallow, and I feel for them.  I think many athletes at other schools are asking similar questions, but not to the extent of St. Thomas.

+k TexasOle.

This is what resonates with me most. And not just the UST student athletes (though they have the most to lose), but others too. I am sure if you polled Bethel Football or Augsburg hoops they would say the experience of knocking off UST this past year was special. Its all part of the athletic experience.

It's unfortunate that these are the headlines this week instead of UST's softball team or SJU's 4x100 or the countless other stories of student athletes throughout the conference.

[miac952]

I think several student-athletes at UST rightfully asked about their future.  They committed to a school where they could compete with many of the away games nearby.  In 3 years will their sport still exist at St. Thomas?  What will their academic and athletic experience look like their senior year?  Imagine if UST goes up a division some of these kids may not have spot on the roster.  That is a tough pill to swallow, and I feel for them.

Maybe those curious students can ask a follow up question that everyone covering this story has seemingly not answered which is what did UST try and do to stay in the MIAC?

In their own press release, which many outlets have included in their coverage, it stated "St. Thomas expended tremendous effort to remain in the MIAC and stabilize the conference," St. Thomas president Julie Sullivan said in a statement." There was a similar quote in the Borzi piece. So did he not ask the question or did he not get an answer? If it's the former that's bad journalism, if it's the latter that would be relevant piece of information to include.

Ahh. The old "bad journalism" take coming from the peanut gallery. Did the Strib editor finalize that restraining order with you yet for accosting his columnists?

[Texas Ole]

I think several student-athletes at UST rightfully asked about their future.  They committed to a school where they could compete with many of the away games nearby.  In 3 years will their sport still exist at St. Thomas?  What will their academic and athletic experience look like their senior year?  Imagine if UST goes up a division some of these kids may not have spot on the roster.  That is a tough pill to swallow, and I feel for them.

Maybe those curious students can ask a follow up question that everyone covering this story has seemingly not answered which is what did UST try and do to stay in the MIAC?

In their own press release, which many outlets have included in their coverage, it stated "St. Thomas expended tremendous effort to remain in the MIAC and stabilize the conference," St. Thomas president Julie Sullivan said in a statement." There was a similar quote in the Borzi piece. So did he not ask the question or did he not get an answer? If it's the former that's bad journalism, if it's the latter that would be relevant piece of information to include.

Bad journalism seems to be the trend.  Today when discussing the story on one of the sports stations in Dallas they mentioned Glenn Caruso was a backup QB for the Dallas Cowboys.