FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Ralph Turner]

This decision has essentially doomed UST to a decade plus long purgatory that SJU will soon be cast into. Adversity can make strange bedfellows, but I think if SJU/CSB was smart, they'd start talking about making a transition with UST, so at least both (all) schools have something to look forward to for the next decade and change.

I am guessing SJU has at least begun discussions about this process particularly with UST.  I don't know if SJU will look to make the jump, but they have to be interested.  Adding two schools can be easier.

Travel partners...

[bluenote]

Just had to check in with my good buddy Johnnie Red and the other guy named ... wow he didn't ring a bell Is SJU going to dominate?   

[57Johnnie]

75 years ago ..............
Lest we forget!

[HScoach]

75 years ago ..............
Lest we forget!

Amen!

[DuffMan]

75 years ago ..............
Lest we forget!

Good reminder, 57!  Our MIAC woes and bickering pale in comparison to the things that really matter.

[hazzben]

75 years ago ..............
Lest we forget!

Good perspective for us all!

[OldAuggie]

The letter General Eisenhower sent to airmen, soldiers and sailors prior to D-Day.

I found it on Twitter this morning.

[hazzben]

The MIAC shouldn't be viewed as a monolith. If it were one, UST wouldn't have gotten the boot. The MIAC didn't have options; each member school had a different set of options, which were assessed in relation to unique circumstances and interests. Let's take a school like St. Olaf--you know, the one who started this whole thing after losing 97-0 to UST in football a few years back. If St. Olaf felt it couldn't keep up with UST, it could have: 1) made a real attempt to improve; 2) dissolved its NCAA athletic programs in favor of club sports; 3) kept its more competitive NCAA athletic programs and made the rest club sports; 4) kept all of its NCAA athletic programs and moved to a less competitive conference; 5) kept all of its NCAA athletic programs and become independent; or 6) conspired to in effect hold some MIAC schools hostage and force UST's ouster. Which of these options smacks of cowardice?

This was my point about the false dichotomy. I realize the presidents have presented it as either kick out UST or dissolve the league. But from where I sit, that's because these were the only two options the group led/spearheaded by Olaf wanted to put on the table.

The amount Olaf has spent on athletics infrastructure in the last 20 years, compared to say Bethel, is staggering. It's been said before, Olaf tried the UST method, both in terms of facilities, where it gets AD's, and even its coaches. They just didn't pull it off and have now shifted gears. Or at least want us to think they have. My money says they don't fire their former UST assistant HC or demo the new hockey palace that's the envy of the league 

To Rev's point above, Bethel had options as well. Attempt massive fundraising campaigns, spend like crazy (cue someone talking about our grass field), resign itself to mediocrity, leave for a lesser conference, support tossing out UST ... or recognize their unique culture and leverage that to overcome their challenges. People forget that 40 years ago Bethel football and the entire athletic department was the laughing stock of the MIAC. When d3football.com first started, there were a good number of posters who couldn't stand Bethel. I've always felt part of this was due to blue blood programs and their fans who couldn't wrap their minds around Bethel beating their teams in football. Over time Bethel re-wrote the narrative. I'm proud to have been a part of that, and to have watched the leadership at play with coaches and an athletic department who had the courage to think outside of the box and the perseverance to see it through.

I'll also point out, their rise in competitiveness wasn't at the expense of academics. Their athletes are some of their best students and leaders. Which is why they are so consistently getting men and women named to the Good Works teams, NCAA Post Grad scholarships, Academic All Americans, etc. That wasn't accidental. It was men like Steve Johnson having the vision for a program that actually set the bar for leadership on campus. You don't have to choose between academics and athletics, even elite academics (JHU, Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, NESCAC, etc. haven't).

PS. I never imagined agreeing with Rev and his ilk on so much 

PPS. Discerning tone is nearly impossible in online forums. I hope no poster on here feels like I'm taking this back and forth personally. I appreciate good debate, where we still recognize the other person's right to an opinion, and that at the end of the day there's no reason to get nasty or get our underwear in a bunch.

[DuffMan]

People forget that 40 years ago Bethel football and the entire athletic department was the laughing stock of the MIAC.

It still is. 

When d3football.com first started, there were a good number of posters who couldn't stand Bethel.

Don't worry.  I still can't stand Bethel, but U$T being good has taken some of the pressure off of Bethel. 

[USTBench]

This decision has essentially doomed UST to a decade plus long purgatory that SJU will soon be cast into. Adversity can make strange bedfellows, but I think if SJU/CSB was smart, they'd start talking about making a transition with UST, so at least both (all) schools have something to look forward to for the next decade and change.

Bench, you seem to be pretty savvy concerning the different conferences in the area. I posited in an earlier post that perhaps the top 4 teams in the MIAC "simply" take their ball and form an entirely new Division 3 conference? From where you sit, is there any chance something like this could be done?

Personally, I don't see UST being able to convince enough schools to make a new conference a viable solution, at least at the Division III level.

However, if I was tasked with making such a conference a reality, here are the schools I would target, factoring in academic profile, endowment, what sports they currently sponsor, their ability to compete and geography:

UST (obviously)
SJU/CSB
Bethel
Gustavus
CSS
UNW
Concordia
University of Jamestown
University of Mary

Currently the University of Mary plays Division II and in the NSIC, but this was done out of necessity when the old NAIA DAC 10 split up into a thousand different directions. Minot State fits the Division II and NSIC profile much better than Mary, but it's been a very tough adjustment for both of them (Mary went 1-10 in football last year).

The DAC 10 members that continue to play in the NAIA are often geographically isolated, forced to play schools twice in a year, and schedule games against teams so far above or below their competition level it borders on absurd. For instance, Mayville State plays Trinity Bible one week this year, then travels to Merrimack College in Massachusetts the next week, a school that will be starting its transition into Division 1. Jamestown has it far better than Mayville State in terms of this arrangement, but I still believe the University of Jamestown would jump at the chance to play in a viable Division III conference with two schools nearby.

I would seek to arrange a consistent Thursday/Saturday travel schedule (for hoops, volleyball, wrestling, etc), where one school gets a bye week per season. Then you've got travel partners for games in Jamestown and Bismarck (Bismarck is a 7 hour drive from Duluth or St. Peter, and a 6 hour drive from Minneapolis/St. Paul). Concordia stands to gain the most from a conference like this as they are often the only school in the MIAC with a burdensome travel schedule and this would at least give them a few teams a bit more locally to play, as they would be smack dab in the middle of the 1-94/Highway 10 corridor.

The other nice thing is Mary and Jamestown both sponsor ACHA Division 1 (high level club) hockey so sponsoring Division III hockey would be an easy transition. I think Mary wouldn't mind unloading their athletic scholarships and Jamestown wouldn't mind shaving some time off their travel schedule and raising their profile a bit.

Of course, this is a pretty pie-in-the-sky hope. The same concerns remain: UST's endowment dwarfs that of the 4 new schools I suggested, their location gives them a significant recruiting advantage, and UST's ambitions while still undefined, are probably loftier than the conference I suggested.

[Capn34]

This decision has essentially doomed UST to a decade plus long purgatory that SJU will soon be cast into. Adversity can make strange bedfellows, but I think if SJU/CSB was smart, they'd start talking about making a transition with UST, so at least both (all) schools have something to look forward to for the next decade and change.

Bench, you seem to be pretty savvy concerning the different conferences in the area. I posited in an earlier post that perhaps the top 4 teams in the MIAC "simply" take their ball and form an entirely new Division 3 conference? From where you sit, is there any chance something like this could be done?

Personally, I don't see UST being able to convince enough schools to make a new conference a viable solution, at least at the Division III level.

However, if I was tasked with making such a conference a reality, here are the schools I would target, factoring in academic profile, endowment, what sports they currently sponsor, their ability to compete and geography:

UST (obviously)
SJU/CSB
Bethel
Gustavus
CSS
UNW
Concordia
University of Jamestown
University of Mary

Currently the University of Mary plays Division II and in the NSIC, but this was done out of necessity when the old NAIA DAC 10 split up into a thousand different directions. Minot State fits the Division II and NSIC profile much better than Mary, but it's been a very tough adjustment for both of them (Mary went 1-10 in football last year).

The DAC 10 members that continue to play in the NAIA are often geographically isolated, forced to play schools twice in a year, and schedule games against teams so far above or below their competition level it borders on absurd. For instance, Mayville State plays Trinity Bible one week this year, then travels to Merrimack College in Massachusetts the next week, a school that will be starting its transition into Division 1. Jamestown has it far better than Mayville State in terms of this arrangement, but I still believe the University of Jamestown would jump at the chance to play in a viable Division III conference with two schools nearby.

I would seek to arrange a consistent Thursday/Saturday travel schedule (for hoops, volleyball, wrestling, etc), where one school gets a bye week per season. Then you've got travel partners for games in Jamestown and Bismarck (Bismarck is a 7 hour drive from Duluth or St. Peter, and a 6 hour drive from Minneapolis/St. Paul). Concordia stands to gain the most from a conference like this as they are often the only school in the MIAC with a burdensome travel schedule and this would at least give them a few teams a bit more locally to play, as they would be smack dab in the middle of the 1-94/Highway 10 corridor.

The other nice thing is Mary and Jamestown both sponsor ACHA Division 1 (high level club) hockey so sponsoring Division III hockey would be an easy transition. I think Mary wouldn't mind unloading their athletic scholarships and Jamestown wouldn't mind shaving some time off their travel schedule and raising their profile a bit.

Of course, this is a pretty pie-in-the-sky hope. The same concerns remain: UST's endowment dwarfs that of the 4 new schools I suggested, their location gives them a significant recruiting advantage, and UST's ambitions while still undefined, are probably loftier than the conference I suggested.

I have a feeling if you get this alignment that you have a shot of bringing in Augsburg and possibly Hamline.  Augsburg would like it because their in Hockey and Basketball they can compete easily with the schools listed, and Mary and Jamestown have wrestling programs.  Hamline may be enticed because of Hockey and location.  Would love to see STO's hockey team be put on an island with no conference.

[art76]

People forget that 40 years ago Bethel football and the entire athletic department was the laughing stock of the MIAC.

Hey, watch it bub - I resemble that.  (82 grad)

[formerd3db]

PPS. Discerning tone is nearly impossible in online forums. I hope no poster on here feels like I'm taking this back and forth personally. I appreciate good debate, where we still recognize the other person's right to an opinion, and that at the end of the day there's no reason to get nasty or get our underwear in a bunch.

Agree with you. Well said, hazzben.

[art76]

This decision has essentially doomed UST to a decade plus long purgatory that SJU will soon be cast into. Adversity can make strange bedfellows, but I think if SJU/CSB was smart, they'd start talking about making a transition with UST, so at least both (all) schools have something to look forward to for the next decade and change.

Bench, you seem to be pretty savvy concerning the different conferences in the area. I posited in an earlier post that perhaps the top 4 teams in the MIAC "simply" take their ball and form an entirely new Division 3 conference? From where you sit, is there any chance something like this could be done?

Personally, I don't see UST being able to convince enough schools to make a new conference a viable solution, at least at the Division III level.

However, if I was tasked with making such a conference a reality, here are the schools I would target, factoring in academic profile, endowment, what sports they currently sponsor, their ability to compete and geography:

UST (obviously)
SJU/CSB
Bethel
Gustavus
CSS
UNW
Concordia
University of Jamestown
University of Mary

Currently the University of Mary plays Division II and in the NSIC, but this was done out of necessity when the old NAIA DAC 10 split up into a thousand different directions. Minot State fits the Division II and NSIC profile much better than Mary, but it's been a very tough adjustment for both of them (Mary went 1-10 in football last year).

The DAC 10 members that continue to play in the NAIA are often geographically isolated, forced to play schools twice in a year, and schedule games against teams so far above or below their competition level it borders on absurd. For instance, Mayville State plays Trinity Bible one week this year, then travels to Merrimack College in Massachusetts the next week, a school that will be starting its transition into Division 1. Jamestown has it far better than Mayville State in terms of this arrangement, but I still believe the University of Jamestown would jump at the chance to play in a viable Division III conference with two schools nearby.

I would seek to arrange a consistent Thursday/Saturday travel schedule (for hoops, volleyball, wrestling, etc), where one school gets a bye week per season. Then you've got travel partners for games in Jamestown and Bismarck (Bismarck is a 7 hour drive from Duluth or St. Peter, and a 6 hour drive from Minneapolis/St. Paul). Concordia stands to gain the most from a conference like this as they are often the only school in the MIAC with a burdensome travel schedule and this would at least give them a few teams a bit more locally to play, as they would be smack dab in the middle of the 1-94/Highway 10 corridor.

The other nice thing is Mary and Jamestown both sponsor ACHA Division 1 (high level club) hockey so sponsoring Division III hockey would be an easy transition. I think Mary wouldn't mind unloading their athletic scholarships and Jamestown wouldn't mind shaving some time off their travel schedule and raising their profile a bit.

Of course, this is a pretty pie-in-the-sky hope. The same concerns remain: UST's endowment dwarfs that of the 4 new schools I suggested, their location gives them a significant recruiting advantage, and UST's ambitions while still undefined, are probably loftier than the conference I suggested.

Thanx for the input Bench! +K

Discounting those of us on this board, would anyone else in the "real world" be willing to take this on? My career is in the wrong field entirely, and wouldn't even know who's ear to bend to have them consider this. So, I ask everyone on this board again, who could/would be a person with enough clout to make something like this happen? Does anyone know a friend of a friend to send out some "feelers"?

I still am of the opinion that there is going to be some hard feelings played out on the field over the next couple of years, and probably longer, even after the Tommies leave the MIAC as things stand now. I'm thinking there are a lot of folks who would get behind "something new", provided it is done well.

[hazzben]

People forget that 40 years ago Bethel football and the entire athletic department was the laughing stock of the MIAC.

Hey, watch it bub - I resemble that.  (82 grad)

Ha! I just like to think of you as the Jimmy Miller era.