FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hazzben]

Just looked at the Cobbers schedule ... oofta!!

It's not a stretch to think they could be sitting at 2-6 after this brutal stretch run coming up.

Or, the Cobbs could knock off UST on the road & be 3-5.......

Oh for sure. But 3-5 or 2-6, both are gut punches for a good team that's played murderer row.

[hazzben]

Well, if UST leave early then it makes me think two things:

a) So much for the "kicked out against their will and just because of petty jealousy" story line.

There isn't any there here. If you guys (I know, not SJU) kicked them out of the league, why should they stay? The generous timeline is nice but there isn't any incentive to stay if another conference can take them sooner.

AHEM, and Bethel. Thank you very much. But agreed, once we kicked them out, it's in their best interest to find the right solution, and then to execute it as quickly as possible. They owe the MIAC no favors in delaying a year so the AD's can get their schedules together.

...I would guess that there would be plenty of non-conference opponents to fill the 10th game with an 8 team conference.

I know that SJU struggles to find non-con games.  I would venture a guess that Bethel does, too.

Had a convo with one of our coaches during fall camp about this very subject. That's absolutely an issue for Bethel as well. As much as it would suck to add Mac back to the schedule, and it would/will suck (trading UST for MAC, what is happening in the world), having to schedule 3 non-cons would be brutal and more expensive.

I understand that the SID said things in the local media, and that is worthy of note in contrast to the silence of others. But that doesn't mean that when push came to shove, that Bethel's president cast/would have cast a vote in keeping with that.

Well, when I talked to our AD last spring and (counting on my fingers) over a dozen coaches from multiple sports at BU (basketball, football, baseball, track) every single one was against the MIAC's move. Dr. Barnes is a lame duck president, and the vote never made it to the floor. But the entire BU Athletic department (and everyone I've talked to at the school and alumni) were sickened by the situation. If Bethel had voted for the ouster, it would only have been because it was a fait accompli.

[Pat Coleman]

Understood, but one can't equate that with what is done at the presidential level. What presidents do and care about is so far removed from the athletic department leadership, let alone the coaches. A college/university president simply doesn't answer to that constituency at all.

[miac952]

MiacMan summarized what I saw out UST as well. Two RB's with next level skills, a solid WR in Green, and a very talented TE in Slavik. But the line doesn't look as strong as past years and QB play is still lacking. I heard Frankl was the front runner in camp until he got injured. Dolan looked good at times, but was a deer in the headlights on a lot of fairly basic throws and reads. Caruso is also a much better CEO than he is as a playcaller too. Peak offense for UST was Killian calling plays. It's an under appreciated art form and Killian, the former QB, was amazing. The D doesn't look that different to me. Some high motor, high skill kids. Safety positions look a little bleak, but the rest looked solid.

[Texas Ole]

I expect the St. Olaf to start 5-0, and then we will see what happens.  I am not convinced they are ready to give one of the top teams a game.  I watched the second half of the game this week, and they just looked sloppy.  There is a lot of improvement that is needed.  I believe the team is headed in a good direction.  It was clear a change was needed years ago.  I am not willing to say St. Olaf is a middle of the pack or better than the other bottom feeders until they show me they can compete with them.

I will say I won't be upset with .500 football team.  They have won the important games this season.  I am seeing improvement.  There were years where St. Olaf couldn't compete, and this team looks like it is trying to move in a good direction.  It just needs time.

I think St. Olaf is definitely trending in the right direction. Still probably take some lumps on the back half, but they are night and day better than 2-3 years ago.

Agreed!

Last year I was very happy with a 5-5 record.  Stern came to St. Olaf with Meidt and helped with recruiting and the defense.  I was always told he was a great recruiter.  He was quite personable with many of the students.  The problem with the Meidt coached teams was that they could score a ton of points, but when it came to defense they weren't very good even with great players.  When Meidt left Stern and McCarthy were left to lead spring practice, but neither were hired for the head coaching job.  Instead St. Olaf hired a great coach in OJ then handcuffed him in a way that I always felt was out of line.  When they promoted Stern after OJ's departure is when things took a nose dive.  There were teams with the same defense under Meidt without the offense to go with it.  That is a bad combination.  I asked several people around the athletic department about the team during the Stern years.  I never heard one negative about Stern as a person, but there were several comments about the coaching.  I won't pin all of that on Stern, but the head coach gets to take the bulk of the blame.

I hope Killian gets the support he needs.  Everything I have seen has shown he is a good coach, and the Oles are fortunate to have him.  We also all know the problems within the athletic department and greater administration at St. Olaf.  Football isn't the only sport to be effected by some of those issues.  The football team is getting exponentially better, but there is still plenty of room for improvement.  That improvement probably still needs a few years to come to fruition.  It takes time.  As a fan I can be patient if I am seeing improvement, and I see it with the Oles.  Last year 5-5 was a good record.  I will be happy with it again, but I also want to see us compete against better teams.

[AO]

We also all know the problems within the athletic department and greater administration at St. Olaf.  Football isn't the only sport to be effected by some of those issues. 

I must have missed the memo.  I don't recall ever discussing any big problems at Olaf.

Understood, but one can't equate that with what is done at the presidential level. What presidents do and care about is so far removed from the athletic department leadership, let alone the coaches. A college/university president simply doesn't answer to that constituency at all.

I don't think we ever heard for certain that the Johnnies were the only ones telling people they'd rather the conference split up than kick out the Tommies.  It might have been unanimous at the end.  The only thing I'm interested in is knowing which colleges were threatening to leave.

[OzJohnnie]

I don't really expect reasonable responses from you anymore on this matter, but this doesn't follow at all.
That we may be an appealing addition and decide to act quickly for some other conference does nothing to negate whether getting kicked out was or wasn't an injustice.

An injustice?  UST has hired half of Penn State's athletic department before any of this started. Penn State.  One of the most football crazy D1 schools in the country.  UST has five assistant ADs.  To run an MIAC program?  Hardly.  Carleton has one. Gustavus has only two assistant ADs.  Even SJU only has two (if you count Jim Gagliardi and remember the AD himself doubles as the coach of the golf program).

I'll grant you it was an inconvenience when the MIAC pushed St Thomas out on the MIAC's schedule rather than waiting for UST to jump on their own schedule, but I would hardly call it an injustice.  But St Thomas leaving was inevitable.  The only question was who would pick up the phone first.

[jamtod]

Never let facts get in the way of a good anti-UST rant.

[miac952]

I don't really expect reasonable responses from you anymore on this matter, but this doesn't follow at all.
That we may be an appealing addition and decide to act quickly for some other conference does nothing to negate whether getting kicked out was or wasn't an injustice.

An injustice?  UST has hired half of Penn State's athletic department before any of this started. Penn State.  One of the most football crazy D1 schools in the country.  UST has five assistant ADs.  To run an MIAC program?  Hardly.  Carleton has one. Gustavus has only two assistant ADs.  Even SJU only has two (if you count Jim Gagliardi and remember the AD himself doubles as the coach of the golf program).

I'll grant you it was an inconvenience when the MIAC pushed St Thomas out on the MIAC's schedule rather than waiting for UST to jump on their own schedule, but I would hardly call it an injustice.  But St Thomas leaving was inevitable.  The only question was who would pick up the phone first.

They hired 1 at the time this went down Oz...1. And that came at a time where Hockey was opening it's doors to unconventional newer members for D1. Just because Esten was hired doesn't mean UST was on a planned path out of the MIAC. It could have been to transition hockey or for philanthropy. Should we assume the same path for St Olaf since their recent AD hire came from the University of Maryland. By the way, he was largely responsible for Maryland's transition to the B1G. As Jam said, don't let facts get in the way of a cute conspiracy theory.

[OzJohnnie]

So the BC west of the Mississippi and all that was just a fevered dream in the Rev’s scone?  I sometimes suspected as much but I must admit that sometimes I thought there may have been some substance to his insiders’ stories about UST’s ambitions to bugger off this one-horse town of the MIAC and become the BC west of the Mississippi.

There’s nothing wrong with UST having ambitions that don’t include the MIAC, by the way. It could be a real source of pride to know that the school wants to go to new places.  The fact that enough MIAC schools apparently felt that UST was stepping on them to get where it wants to go (and that it was apparently better if UST left now or the MIAC be dissolved) is something that should cause a little introspection in the halls on Summit Ave. It’s not a fatal mistake was obviously, instead a learning opportunity.

[jamtod]

So the BC west of the Mississippi and all that was just a fevered dream in the Rev's scone?  I sometimes suspected as much but I must admit that sometimes I thought there may have been some substance to his insiders' stories about UST's ambitions to bugger off this one-horse town of the MIAC and become the BC west of the Mississippi.

There's nothing wrong with UST having ambitions that don't include the MIAC, by the way. It could be a real source of pride to know that the school wants to go to new places.  The fact that enough MIAC schools apparently felt that UST was stepping on them to get where it wants to go (and that it was apparently better if UST left now or the MIAC be dissolved) is something that should cause a little introspection in the halls on Summit Ave. It's not a fatal mistake was obviously, instead a learning opportunity.

Do you not grasp that aspirations of a 10 year plan variety are not the same as current year actions? Is this really that difficult?
The additional hiring in the athletic department happened almost completely after the non-vote, and now moving up is inevitable and happening quickly. Yes, this will likely work out well in the long term for UST (I think it sucks if we go D1/FCS and logistics for bringing my family to stuff becomes more difficult) but that's a response to the situation

[OzJohnnie]

So the BC west of the Mississippi and all that was just a fevered dream in the Rev's scone?  I sometimes suspected as much but I must admit that sometimes I thought there may have been some substance to his insiders' stories about UST's ambitions to bugger off this one-horse town of the MIAC and become the BC west of the Mississippi.

There's nothing wrong with UST having ambitions that don't include the MIAC, by the way. It could be a real source of pride to know that the school wants to go to new places.  The fact that enough MIAC schools apparently felt that UST was stepping on them to get where it wants to go (and that it was apparently better if UST left now or the MIAC be dissolved) is something that should cause a little introspection in the halls on Summit Ave. It's not a fatal mistake was obviously, instead a learning opportunity.

Do you not grasp that aspirations of a 10 year plan variety are not the same as current year actions? Is this really that difficult?
The additional hiring in the athletic department happened almost completely after the non-vote, and now moving up is inevitable and happening quickly. Yes, this will likely work out well in the long term for UST (I think it sucks if we go D1/FCS and logistics for bringing my family to stuff becomes more difficult) but that's a response to the situation

I fully grasp the difference between a 10-year plan and something happening right now, ahead of that schedule.  I reckon I've been pretty clear that I understand that.

It seems the lack of understanding is with the perspectives of the institutions which lead the 'now' campaign.  They weren't happy, from what scraps we can gather, with the 10-year plan because it came at their expense.  I'm sure every president is very supportive of another institution's ambitions.  But when those ambitions allegedly come at the expense of partner schools (through over-recruiting athletes in a very tight market, targeted aid packages which are uncompetitive and at one point on here described as vindictive from memory, and most publicly in merciless thrashings which have opposition parents complaining to rival administrations about their kids being used as punching bags) then it's time to pull the plug on a relationship that is no longer healthy.

There are two sides to a coin.  One side we're very familiar with, the Tommies as victims.   The other side, I suggest, is not as simple as "losers don't like winners" but instead perhaps a bit more mature and closer to "just as the MIAC no longer supports UST's ambitions, it's also not supporting the 'Coalition of Losers' ambitions".  And just as UST has the agency to leave, so do the others.  And in the end it comes down to votes.  And the vote, I suspect, was something like this scene from Rush, which I highlighted at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjyIrLKgbbA

[MiacMN]

MiacMan summarized what I saw out UST as well. Two RB's with next level skills, a solid WR in Green, and a very talented TE in Slavik. But the line doesn't look as strong as past years and QB play is still lacking. I heard Frankl was the front runner in camp until he got injured. Dolan looked good at times, but was a deer in the headlights on a lot of fairly basic throws and reads. Caruso is also a much better CEO than he is as a playcaller too. Peak offense for UST was Killian calling plays. It's an under appreciated art form and Killian, the former QB, was amazing. The D doesn't look that different to me. Some high motor, high skill kids. Safety positions look a little bleak, but the rest looked solid.

It seems pretty clear that the issue with the Tommie passing game is not any individual quarterback, it is a play callling issue. Looking at the recent performances by St. Thomas quarterbacks in competitive games, there are a few decent games, a lot of bad ones, and one excellent game. I don't believe that these guys aren't talented. This has been a troubling pattern in recent years across a few different QBs.

2019 vs UWEC: 26-60 313 Yards 1 TD 2 INT (Dolan)
2018 vs SJU: 25-53 338 Yards 0 TD 5 INT (Perra)
2018 vs GAC: 10-17 54 Yards 0 TD 2 INT (Perra)
2018 vs GAC: 5-17 61 Yards 1 TD 0 INT (Jones)
2018 vs Bethel: 21-37 238 Yards 2 TD 1 INT (Perra)
2017 vs Stout: 21-41 215 Yards 1 TD 2 INT (Perra)
2017 vs SJU: 12-24 230 Yards 2 TD 1 INT (Perra)
2017 vs UMHB: 13-29 190 Yards 1 TD 1 INT (Perra)
2016 vs SJU: 9-18 114 Yards 0 TD 1 INT (Fenske)
2016 vs C-M: 22-31 373 Yards 2 TD 0 INT (Fenske)
2016 vs UWO: 13-26 158 Yards 2 TD 5 INT (Fenske)

Total: 177-353 2,284 Yards 12 TD 20 INT

[sjusection105]

MiacMan summarized what I saw out UST as well. Two RB's with next level skills, a solid WR in Green, and a very talented TE in Slavik. But the line doesn't look as strong as past years and QB play is still lacking. I heard Frankl was the front runner in camp until he got injured. Dolan looked good at times, but was a deer in the headlights on a lot of fairly basic throws and reads. Caruso is also a much better CEO than he is as a playcaller too. Peak offense for UST was Killian calling plays. It's an under appreciated art form and Killian, the former QB, was amazing. The D doesn't look that different to me. Some high motor, high skill kids. Safety positions look a little bleak, but the rest looked solid.

It seems pretty clear that the issue with the Tommie passing game is not any individual quarterback, it is a play callling issue. Looking at the recent performances by St. Thomas quarterbacks in competitive games, there are a few decent games, a lot of bad ones, and one excellent game. I don't believe that these guys aren't talented. This has been a troubling pattern in recent years across a few different QBs.

2019 vs UWEC: 26-60 313 Yards 1 TD 2 INT (Dolan)
2018 vs SJU: 25-53 338 Yards 0 TD 5 INT (Perra)
2018 vs GAC: 10-17 54 Yards 0 TD 2 INT (Perra)
2018 vs GAC: 5-17 61 Yards 1 TD 0 INT (Jones)
2018 vs Bethel: 21-37 238 Yards 2 TD 1 INT (Perra)
2017 vs Stout: 21-41 215 Yards 1 TD 2 INT (Perra)
2017 vs SJU: 12-24 230 Yards 2 TD 1 INT (Perra)
2017 vs UMHB: 13-29 190 Yards 1 TD 1 INT (Perra)
2016 vs SJU: 9-18 114 Yards 0 TD 1 INT (Fenske)
2016 vs C-M: 22-31 373 Yards 2 TD 0 INT (Fenske)
2016 vs UWO: 13-26 158 Yards 2 TD 5 INT (Fenske)

Total: 177-353 2,284 Yards 12 TD 20 INT

2018 vs SJU: 25-53 338 Yards 0 TD 5 INT (Perra)
That was a heck of a good game 

[stanbob]

Shucks.
I almost feel bad for y'all if we jump after a year.

Nah

Well, if UST leave early then it makes me think two things:

a) So much for the "kicked out against their will and just because of petty jealousy" story line.

I don't really expect reasonable responses from you anymore on this matter, but this doesn't follow at all.
That we may be an appealing addition and decide to act quickly for some other conference does nothing to negate whether getting kicked out was or wasn't an injustice.

you orchestrated your own departure...