FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Mr.MIAC]

I caught this tidbit on UST's D1 transition Q&A page. Maybe Faunch's little conspiracy theory has some merit.


How does St. Thomas benefit from being in a Division I athletics league?

This decision is about more than athletics – it's about advancing our vision to be a leading Catholic university recognized at the national level. An important outcome of increasing St. Thomas' visibility, for example, is an ability to attract a more geographically diverse cross section of students who are accomplished in and out of the classroom. This additional representation would add value to classroom discussions, campus life, cocurricular activities and virtually every aspect of St. Thomas while providing St. Thomas with the opportunity to extend the reach of our mission and impact. The presence of Division I sports teams will also build on the strong Tommie fan loyalty and provide the campus and alumni with more engaging fan experiences.

[(509)Rat]

Does St. Thomas have the financial support from alumni/booster for D1 football? Even 63 scholarships in FCS isn't cheap. Apologies if the answer is obvious to those in the know...

[jamtod]

I caught this tidbit on UST's D1 transition Q&A page. Maybe Faunch's little conspiracy theory has some merit.


How does St. Thomas benefit from being in a Division I athletics league?

This decision is about more than athletics – it's about advancing our vision to be a leading Catholic university recognized at the national level. An important outcome of increasing St. Thomas' visibility, for example, is an ability to attract a more geographically diverse cross section of students who are accomplished in and out of the classroom. This additional representation would add value to classroom discussions, campus life, cocurricular activities and virtually every aspect of St. Thomas while providing St. Thomas with the opportunity to extend the reach of our mission and impact. The presence of Division I sports teams will also build on the strong Tommie fan loyalty and provide the campus and alumni with more engaging fan experiences.

Meh, I wouldn't read a darn thing into that. Everyone suspected it was in the long range planning and it would be dumb to not take advantage and make the best of it when it's our best current path forward.

[jamtod]

Does St. Thomas have the financial support from alumni/booster for D1 football? Even 63 scholarships in FCS isn't cheap. Apologies if the answer is obvious to those in the know...

Right now? Probably not. Is it doable in the future? With the AD team we are building, absolutely.

We are better positioned financially and institutionally overall than many other FCS schools, just a matter of making the right decisions and adapting to the new reality.

[sjusection105]

I caught this tidbit on UST's D1 transition Q&A page. Maybe Faunch's little conspiracy theory has some merit.


How does St. Thomas benefit from being in a Division I athletics league?

This decision is about more than athletics – it's about advancing our vision to be a leading Catholic university recognized at the national level. An important outcome of increasing St. Thomas' visibility, for example, is an ability to attract a more geographically diverse cross section of students who are accomplished in and out of the classroom. This additional representation would add value to classroom discussions, campus life, cocurricular activities and virtually every aspect of St. Thomas while providing St. Thomas with the opportunity to extend the reach of our mission and impact. The presence of Division I sports teams will also build on the strong Tommie fan loyalty and provide the campus and alumni with more engaging fan experiences.

Am I missing something, like purple clad fans making a long road trip to let's see, Bethel.....nope, no purple on the long 9 mile drive to Bethel. The loyal fan base will certainly make the trip to places like Valparaiso, Indiana.

[hazzben]

Someone mentioned a few pages back (Texas Ole??) that the MIAC is now better off with the announcement. I really don't see how that's the case. UST isn't suddenly going to exist in another geographic location. Hamline and Augsburg are still going to bleed students to UST, whose enrollment and programs (undergrad and grad) are only going to increase. The addition of MAC back into the MIAC for football is just such a loser proposition for the league. We have swapped out a perennial Top tier for a perennial bottom tier team. And it's a tough spot for the better teams in the conference. Swapping MAC for UST doesn't make anyone better come playoff time. If they don't swap, then the top teams are stuck trying to schedule another non-con game, which is already a challenge for some schools.

As for MVFC vs. Pioneer. I think UST is sitting close to the top of the Pioneer by year two, if not year one (you know they are going to be recruiting in a different way from the moment the announcement was made). There's more risk with the immediate MVFC move for sure. But if they could navigate it and hold their own, say in year 2 or 3 (3.5-4.5 seasons from now) the payoff would be enormous. I also think it marks a major dent in the U of MN's walk on program.

[jamtod]

I caught this tidbit on UST's D1 transition Q&A page. Maybe Faunch's little conspiracy theory has some merit.


How does St. Thomas benefit from being in a Division I athletics league?

This decision is about more than athletics – it's about advancing our vision to be a leading Catholic university recognized at the national level. An important outcome of increasing St. Thomas' visibility, for example, is an ability to attract a more geographically diverse cross section of students who are accomplished in and out of the classroom. This additional representation would add value to classroom discussions, campus life, cocurricular activities and virtually every aspect of St. Thomas while providing St. Thomas with the opportunity to extend the reach of our mission and impact. The presence of Division I sports teams will also build on the strong Tommie fan loyalty and provide the campus and alumni with more engaging fan experiences.

Am I missing something, like purple clad fans making a long road trip to let's see, Bethel.....nope, no purple on the long 9 mile drive to Bethel. The loyal fan base will certainly make the trip to places like Valparaiso, Indiana.

I've made the trip a few times. But it was mostly me, one friend, the Caruso family, and some players parents. And MiacMan was there last year but he fits into the latter group now so doesn't count.
Going to be a lot of work for the university and athletic department to build on this

[jamtod]

I vote we go Pioneer League and use that scholarship money to fly/bus the seminarians to all of the away games for fan support

[johnnie_esq]

johnnie_esq:

I can understand what you are saying about arena size for UST ho key being too small currently. However, do you really think they need such a huge arena if they make the jump to DI? Ferris State's arena here in Michigan only seats 2490 and while they do fill it at times, that doesn't always happen. Granted, they are a State university (they compete in DIi in all other sports ad they were grandfathered in for DI hockey by the NCAA)
but the program is supported and I believe that a large portion used for the upgrades if the ice arena was per non-state monies ( need to check their website.) Plus, granted Adrian is DIII, bit they had two alumni donate together $2 million fir their ion campus arena, which while only seating 900, is usually filled for all their hockey programs, not only varsity, but their club collegiate teams, which have won national championships.

So, I understand the challenges that UST would face for hockey alone as you and orhers have outlined if they go to DI in all sports. But do you think there would be a chance to either expand the current facility or build a new one on campus OR is the land-lock problem as mentioned another deterent?

UST's situation is quite a bit different than Ferris St or Adrian.

I'm working on a rink addition here in New Prague currently. To add a solid, decent high school quality second sheet of ice we are looking at $8-10M.  The City of Northfield was exploring a new 2-sheet facility and was seeking $20-22M.    Add in the cost of land near campus in St. Paul and that number would only increase.  And you are dealing with a neighborhood outright hostile to further expansion of the St. Paul campus.

Even in whatever comes of the WCHA (less Alaskas and UAH), you're competing with local facilities that need to be top-of-the line.  Bemidji opened its $35M 4700 seat Sanford Center just 10 years ago; the Verizon Center in Mankato has 5200 seats and was renovated a year ago.  To build a small D1 level rink that would be suitable to draw recruits you'd think $50M minimum.  And if you are going to compete for corporate dollars against the Wild and the U of M in the Twin Cities, you're going to need a lot more than that. 

There is still a lot of room for college hockey to grow in terms of talent, but the revenue situation is far less certain.  State schools like SCSU, UMD, and even Ferris State go all-in on hockey in part because they made the initial investment years ago and losing it now means they are unlikely to ever get it back; at the same time, the hockey market in the Twin Cities has a lot of competition for the dollar- the NHL, NCAA, NAHL, and MSHSL have a ton of opportunities for very good value; getting the market to show up will depend more on the experience.   UST can compete, but it's going to require a lot of capital to do so and there is no certainty of a return. 

Furthermore, keep in mind that college hockey is extremely regional.  Yes, ASU has joined, and there is college hockey in Alabama, but outside of Minnesota, Michigan, and New England, nobody has much of a clue about college hockey schools.  How many of this group even knows where Clarkson is, or that RPI is a traditional hockey power?  A huge investment for a regional sport doesn't seem to be a great fiscal move. 

Keep in mind also that donations are necessary, but the UST administration is unlikely to make decisions that would rely on continued donations to subsidize their athletics programs.  They will want to make sure their revenues will cover their operating costs on an annual basis.  So a capital facilities campaign is great, but we have to treat it as a one-time deal.  So either you will endow the operating costs (which would take $100s of millions) or you are going to make investments that will result in the operating costs being covered.   

So if your operating costs for football are going to increase by $4M for sure by going MVFC and including hockey, how are you going to make that continue annually?  Even if you do make such an investment, will it provide the return UST is looking for in making the jump itself-- namely, to increase its exposure on a national scale?  While NDSU has done so, I would argue that much of its exposure has been the result of its dominance there-- SDSU, which has been pretty good also in football but not won the championships, has not seen the same level of national exposure. 

It would make more sense to go all-in on M/W basketball, make the Big Dance where you get national exposure, and you have solid local talent to round out your roster-- and you can do it for 24 scholarships total (compared to 36 for M/W hockey or baseball/softball).  Football is a necessary evil; but you better really find the revenue to do it right-- for scale, the Dyckhouse in Brooklings SD seats 18,000; can UST draw that many fans every Saturday to fund football on a national-level FCS program?

[miac952]

It will be hard for UST to spread the peanut butter evenly across the 10 sponsored sports for Men and 10 for women. And if you choose scholarship football, you have to add at least one more women's sport or cut a men's sports. At least initially, a strategic emphasis will have to be placed in certain sports that can be successful, build the reputation, and bring in at least a modest revenue offset.

Marquette is an extreme example, but worth noting. They run a LEAN athletic department with 7 male and 7 female sports sponsored. They have chosen to put all of their chips into basketball, and it has paid off handsomely. Marquette's name doesn't come up often with other sports.

As others are noting you probably can't choose to go all in on hockey, basketball and football up front. Even if the Anderson's, Schulze's, etc come knocking with gifts, the annual operating expenses for all of this is extraordinary.

Men's soccer presents opportunities, since its green space in this market. Heck, UST could choose to fire up a Lacrosse program for that reason as well with no D1 Lacrosse in the market. Lots of decisions. A D1 athletic department is run very differently than D3. I feel like hockey will be a part of this, if only because Esten's baby was getting Penn State Hockey to where it is today. The other bringing football back from the brink in the post Sandusky sanctions era.

[jamtod]

More and more convinced that the best way forward is to take St Kate's by force and annex the campus as the University of St Thomas Randolph Ave Athletic Village.
Step 1 of establishing our own nursing program is already underway.

[art76]

St. Olaf has the bye week this week.

With all this talk about St. Thomas, it's kind of ironic that they get the push-over game this week when they travel to Augsburg to take on the Auggies.

Carleton travels to Hamline, where they should be able to post another W.

The third game on this week's schedule is Gustavus traveling up to Concordia for the Cobber's Homecoming Weekend. This game has almost as much intrigue about it as the game of the week. Could be up to 9 inches of snow on the ground for this game.

And the final game in MIAC play this week has #4 St. John's hosting #6 Bethel. The weather looks to be rather miserable, which makes Bethel's "heavy package" look better on paper than the aerial attack of Erdmann and company. Currently they are predicting close to 4 inches of snow on the ground by the end of the game. I expect this to be a close fought game, with the team with the ball last at the end of the game to be in control of their own fates.

[MiacMan]

My gut tells me that one of these sports holds the others fate. Meaning, If football were to go directly to scholarship status, hockey is toast. If football goes Pioneer league, while not guaranteed, it's a good bet it stays and provisions are made as far as facilities and other needs.

[Texas Ole]

UST is better going in to whatever conference limits travel the most and where they can further their goals.  That is an easy decision for them.  I am not sure how much Hamline and Augsburg are competing for students with UST.  Hamline is competing more than Augsburg, but the goals of the institutions are very different.  Hamline and Augsburg have some unique academic programs that work for them.  I don't some of those fit within the UST plan.  I can't see UST benefiting from a weekend college like at Augsburg.  The goal should be to get better and necessarily better.

As regards to cost of sports and facilities I think UST will do just fine.  They may have to make a decision regarding some sports.  It is hard to support an athletic department the size of UST especially for a private school.  The good news is that some of the financial aid for athletes can come from programs targeted to all students.  There are federal and local programs to help fund those costs.  The bigger issue is making sure the operating costs for the programs and the university are covered.  Travel costs are going to rise significantly.  You likely see a few body bag type games for the Tommies that come with a huge payday.

Football likely has options where they can play.  Allianz along with other options exist.  The good news with FCS is there aren't attendance requirements.  I know that may not seem like a big deal, but I have seen a few schools struggle with that issue in Texas.  As a result the current stadium may work.  Hockey will present some challenges.  It seems like towns don't want to fund new facilities.  Northfield was a prime example, and their current ice arena is completely inappropriate for high school and college hockey.   The question is to the direction St. Thomas wants to take hockey.  They could work to keep it on campus by building a new facility, but space is an issue.  Off campus facilities are not ideal, but are always an option.  St. Thomas could move to upgrade a current facility to allow for it to hold college hockey again.  They could also decide to share a current large arena with another team.  I remember going to plenty of Southern Methodist games at Reunion Arena and Texas Stadium back when the old Southwest Conference didn't have a salary cap. 

[faunch]

St. Olaf has the bye week this week.

With all this talk about St. Thomas, it's kind of ironic that they get the push-over game this week when they travel to Augsburg to take on the Auggies.

Carleton travels to Hamline, where they should be able to post another W.

The third game on this week's schedule is Gustavus traveling up to Concordia for the Cobber's Homecoming Weekend. This game has almost as much intrigue about it as the game of the week. Could be up to 9 inches of snow on the ground for this game.

And the final game in MIAC play this week has #4 St. John's hosting #6 Bethel. The weather looks to be rather miserable, which makes Bethel's "heavy package" look better on paper than the aerial attack of Erdmann and company. Currently they are predicting close to 4 inches of snow on the ground by the end of the game. I expect this to be a close fought game, with the team with the ball last at the end of the game to be in control of their own fates.

NWS says a high of 39 with wind gusts up to 35. Gonna be a brutal day!