FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[USTBench]

I guess my take on this situation is Patty Viverito has probably had a lot of conversations with Phil Esten since #tomtoss but wants to get a feel of what some other institutions have in mind RE: adding UST.

RE: MVFC

I think the talk of UST having to build a 20,000 seat stadium is absurd. O'Shaughnessy can certainly use a few million in upgrades to the grandstand amd press box/coaches box, plus a few thousand more seats, but a 10,000 seat stadium would be plenty accommodating. I'd look at Stony Brook in NY as an example. They have a fantastic little on-campus stadium that suits them well and provides a great gameday experience for FCS, and they've been able to develop a hell of a FCS program in just the last 4 or 5 years. If $20 million got pumped into facility upgrades for football that would make what we already have pretty top-of-the-line for that level.

There are some work-arounds. Portland State essentially has two stadiums: they either play at Hillsboro stadium, a 7,000 seat municipal football stadium off-campus; or, at the 20,000 seat home of the MLS Portland Timbers.

One cautionary tale is SDSU. They thought they needed an extravagant 19,000 stadium to compete with NDSU, but have only managed to keep it half full save for the NDSU game every two years. Many have opined that 14,000 would have been plenty. USD is in the process of upgrading the Dakotadome to make it football exclusive and when that's all said-and-done they will have a very nice 9,000 seat indoor stadium with field level suites.

My guess is UND, USD, NDSU and SDSU are all on board with UST joining the MVFC as UST is joining the Summit with them and it gives the Dakota schools another school that minimizes travel.  I don't see UNI as having much of an issue with it for similar travel related reasons. Youngstown and Illinois State have voiced frustration with all the travel to the Dakotas while sitting in the heart of Ohio Valley Conference, but a trip to UST isn't quite as daunting. Missouri State, Southern Illinois and Western Illinois are facing some serious budgetary concerns and are totally abysmal on the football field, so I don't think the MVFC is that far-fetched.

Sure, UST will get rolled by the Dakota schools for a few years, but I think they could get to a competitive level by the time their transition probation is over (2026 if they're treated like a D2 school transitioning).

RE: Pioneer League

At first blush it makes the most sense. Large urban private institutions that play non-scholarship football.

But many of these schools have a all flagshipped basketball in some very prestigious conferences, and if UST joins the Summit, flagshipping hoops would mean, at-best, getting a #14 seed in the NCAA tournament someday. Then you have off-campus hockey, non-scholarship football, and essentially, you're kind of nondescript athletically. Like Omaha, but with non-scholarship football to worry about.

I think UST is going to have to make some TOUGH decisions. If I had my druthers some "non-revenue generating" sports would either get cut or move off campus. I think starting up D1 hockey program without an arena is a HUGE undertaking, honestly, especially in the extremely saturated Minnesota college hockey market. Baseball would make the most sense to move off-campus as they'll play very few home games as-it-is, and they take up a HUGE amount of space, but cutting both baseball and softball wouldn't make much sense, because often times northern schools' baseball/softball programs break even or turn a small profit because they get paid to travel around the south in February and March playing SEC/ACC schools.

[DuffMan]

Frank Rossi's take from Quick Hits, in response to "Pick one of the remaining 23 undefeated teams to drop their first game":

Frank's take: No. 4 St. John's St. John's has been somewhat inconsistent on offense, while St. Thomas has been more consistent on both sides of the ball. We'll see if Eau Claire was a fluke or not by the end of this game.

Aside from the Stout game (game #1), I don't think SJU's offense has been very inconsistent.  They've moved the ball against GAC and Bethel--two quality defenses.  St. Thomas's consistency has come against Trinity International, Hamline, Concordia, and Auggie Tech.  I'll give them props on the Cobber win, but the rest of those opponents are awful.

Tomorrow's game will be a real test for both teams.

[USTBench]

Frank Rossi's take from Quick Hits, in response to "Pick one of the remaining 23 undefeated teams to drop their first game":

Frank's take: No. 4 St. John's St. John's has been somewhat inconsistent on offense, while St. Thomas has been more consistent on both sides of the ball. We'll see if Eau Claire was a fluke or not by the end of this game.

Aside from the Stout game (game #1), I don't think SJU's offense has been very inconsistent.  They've moved the ball against GAC and Bethel--two quality defenses.  St. Thomas's consistency has come against Trinity International, Hamline, Concordia, and Auggie Tech.  I'll give them props on the Cobber win, but the rest of those opponents are awful.

Tomorrow's game will be a real test for both teams.

Interested to see how Tommy Dolan handles the moment. Two picks against Augsburg. Two picks against UWEC.

UST had 25 first downs to UWEC's 6 and outgained the Blugolds 511 to 237. UST can be prone to turning the ball over in some big spots and it has costed them some games. 8 turnovers to UW-Oshkosh in the 2016 quarterfinals (and somehow managed to keep it competitive), 7 turnovers to SJU last year, 4 to UWEC recently. Really hoping they can protect the football on Saturday.

[hazzben]

Frank Rossi's take from Quick Hits, in response to "Pick one of the remaining 23 undefeated teams to drop their first game":

Frank's take: No. 4 St. John's St. John's has been somewhat inconsistent on offense, while St. Thomas has been more consistent on both sides of the ball. We'll see if Eau Claire was a fluke or not by the end of this game.

Aside from the Stout game (game #1), I don't think SJU's offense has been very inconsistent.  They've moved the ball against GAC and Bethel--two quality defenses.  St. Thomas's consistency has come against Trinity International, Hamline, Concordia, and Auggie Tech.  I'll give them props on the Cobber win, but the rest of those opponents are awful.

Tomorrow's game will be a real test for both teams.

Take it easy on Frank. Covering East region teams he's not very familiar with what good defenses look like, save Brockport for a hot second. We should excuse him not grasping that SJU's offense would be like a hot knife through butter against the top East teams. 

[repete]

Frank Rossi's take from Quick Hits, in response to "Pick one of the remaining 23 undefeated teams to drop their first game":

Frank's take: No. 4 St. John's St. John's has been somewhat inconsistent on offense, while St. Thomas has been more consistent on both sides of the ball. We'll see if Eau Claire was a fluke or not by the end of this game.

Aside from the Stout game (game #1), I don't think SJU's offense has been very inconsistent.  They've moved the ball against GAC and Bethel--two quality defenses.  St. Thomas's consistency has come against Trinity International, Hamline, Concordia, and Auggie Tech.  I'll give them props on the Cobber win, but the rest of those opponents are awful.

Tomorrow's game will be a real test for both teams.

Take it easy on Frank. Covering East region teams he's not very familiar with what good defenses look like, save Brockport for a hot second. We should excuse him not grasping that SJU's offense would be like a hot knife through butter against the top East teams. 

[DuffMan]

Interested to see how Tommy Dolan handles the moment. Two picks against Augsburg. Two picks against UWEC.

Interested to see:

1) How U$T's gameplan differs this year
2) How SJU's run defense stacks up (they've been solid this year, but they got torched by UST last year despite winning the game)
3) How Dolan performs
4) How SJU's relatively green receivers perform
5) Will Parks play, and is he 100% (you have to believe that he will as a loss will likely assure that U$T does not get a playoff bid)

[formerd3db]

I guess my take on this situation is Patty Viverito has probably had a lot of conversations with Phil Esten since #tomtoss but wants to get a feel of what some other institutions have in mind RE: adding UST.

RE: MVFC

I think the talk of UST having to build a 20,000 seat stadium is absurd. O'Shaughnessy can certainly use a few million in upgrades to the grandstand amd press box/coaches box, plus a few thousand more seats, but a 10,000 seat stadium would be plenty accommodating. I'd look at Stony Brook in NY as an example. They have a fantastic little on-campus stadium that suits them well and provides a great gameday experience for FCS, and they've been able to develop a hell of a FCS program in just the last 4 or 5 years. If $20 million got pumped into facility upgrades for football that would make what we already have pretty top-of-the-line for that level.

There are some work-arounds. Portland State essentially has two stadiums: they either play at Hillsboro stadium, a 7,000 seat municipal football stadium off-campus; or, at the 20,000 seat home of the MLS Portland Timbers.

One cautionary tale is SDSU. They thought they needed an extravagant 19,000 stadium to compete with NDSU, but have only managed to keep it half full save for the NDSU game every two years. Many have opined that 14,000 would have been plenty. USD is in the process of upgrading the Dakotadome to make it football exclusive and when that's all said-and-done they will have a very nice 9,000 seat indoor stadium with field level suites.

My guess is UND, USD, NDSU and SDSU are all on board with UST joining the MVFC as UST is joining the Summit with them and it gives the Dakota schools another school that minimizes travel.  I don't see UNI as having much of an issue with it for similar travel related reasons. Youngstown and Illinois State have voiced frustration with all the travel to the Dakotas while sitting in the heart of Ohio Valley Conference, but a trip to UST isn't quite as daunting. Missouri State, Southern Illinois and Western Illinois are facing some serious budgetary concerns and are totally abysmal on the football field, so I don't think the MVFC is that far-fetched.

Sure, UST will get rolled by the Dakota schools for a few years, but I think they could get to a competitive level by the time their transition probation is over (2026 if they're treated like a D2 school transitioning).

RE: Pioneer League

At first blush it makes the most sense. Large urban private institutions that play non-scholarship football.

But many of these schools have a all flagshipped basketball in some very prestigious conferences, and if UST joins the Summit, flagshipping hoops would mean, at-best, getting a #14 seed in the NCAA tournament someday. Then you have off-campus hockey, non-scholarship football, and essentially, you're kind of nondescript athletically. Like Omaha, but with non-scholarship football to worry about.

I think UST is going to have to make some TOUGH decisions. If I had my druthers some "non-revenue generating" sports would either get cut or move off campus. I think starting up D1 hockey program without an arena is a HUGE undertaking, honestly, especially in the extremely saturated Minnesota college hockey market. Baseball would make the most sense to move off-campus as they'll play very few home games as-it-is, and they take up a HUGE amount of space, but cutting both baseball and softball wouldn't make much sense, because often times northern schools' baseball/softball programs break even or turn a small profit because they get paid to travel around the south in February and March playing SEC/ACC schools.

Excellent synopsis, USTBench.  You make some great points both pro and con for the various options.  But, also, let's face it.  With the exception of schools like NDSU and Northern Iowa, FCS attendance at other schools in general is often about like DII and many of the DIII schools.  So in that regard, I think your suggestions about the stadium are good.  For sure, as this plays out, St. Thomas will have to make some tough decisions, yet, whatever they end up choosing to do (or perhaps having no choice but to go in one direction), I believe they will be just fine, including for football.

[USTBench]

I guess my take on this situation is Patty Viverito has probably had a lot of conversations with Phil Esten since #tomtoss but wants to get a feel of what some other institutions have in mind RE: adding UST.

RE: MVFC

I think the talk of UST having to build a 20,000 seat stadium is absurd. O'Shaughnessy can certainly use a few million in upgrades to the grandstand amd press box/coaches box, plus a few thousand more seats, but a 10,000 seat stadium would be plenty accommodating. I'd look at Stony Brook in NY as an example. They have a fantastic little on-campus stadium that suits them well and provides a great gameday experience for FCS, and they've been able to develop a hell of a FCS program in just the last 4 or 5 years. If $20 million got pumped into facility upgrades for football that would make what we already have pretty top-of-the-line for that level.

There are some work-arounds. Portland State essentially has two stadiums: they either play at Hillsboro stadium, a 7,000 seat municipal football stadium off-campus; or, at the 20,000 seat home of the MLS Portland Timbers.

One cautionary tale is SDSU. They thought they needed an extravagant 19,000 stadium to compete with NDSU, but have only managed to keep it half full save for the NDSU game every two years. Many have opined that 14,000 would have been plenty. USD is in the process of upgrading the Dakotadome to make it football exclusive and when that's all said-and-done they will have a very nice 9,000 seat indoor stadium with field level suites.

My guess is UND, USD, NDSU and SDSU are all on board with UST joining the MVFC as UST is joining the Summit with them and it gives the Dakota schools another school that minimizes travel.  I don't see UNI as having much of an issue with it for similar travel related reasons. Youngstown and Illinois State have voiced frustration with all the travel to the Dakotas while sitting in the heart of Ohio Valley Conference, but a trip to UST isn't quite as daunting. Missouri State, Southern Illinois and Western Illinois are facing some serious budgetary concerns and are totally abysmal on the football field, so I don't think the MVFC is that far-fetched.

Sure, UST will get rolled by the Dakota schools for a few years, but I think they could get to a competitive level by the time their transition probation is over (2026 if they're treated like a D2 school transitioning).

RE: Pioneer League

At first blush it makes the most sense. Large urban private institutions that play non-scholarship football.

But many of these schools have a all flagshipped basketball in some very prestigious conferences, and if UST joins the Summit, flagshipping hoops would mean, at-best, getting a #14 seed in the NCAA tournament someday. Then you have off-campus hockey, non-scholarship football, and essentially, you're kind of nondescript athletically. Like Omaha, but with non-scholarship football to worry about.

I think UST is going to have to make some TOUGH decisions. If I had my druthers some "non-revenue generating" sports would either get cut or move off campus. I think starting up D1 hockey program without an arena is a HUGE undertaking, honestly, especially in the extremely saturated Minnesota college hockey market. Baseball would make the most sense to move off-campus as they'll play very few home games as-it-is, and they take up a HUGE amount of space, but cutting both baseball and softball wouldn't make much sense, because often times northern schools' baseball/softball programs break even or turn a small profit because they get paid to travel around the south in February and March playing SEC/ACC schools.

Excellent synopsis, USTBench.  You make some great points both pro and con for the various options.  But, also, let's face it.  With the exception of schools like NDSU and Northern Iowa, FCS attendance at other schools in general is often about like DII and many of the DIII schools.  So in that regard, I think your suggestions about the stadium are good.  For sure, as this plays out, St. Thomas will have to make some tough decisions, yet, whatever they end up choosing to do (or perhaps having no choice but to go in one direction), I believe they will be just fine, including for football.

RE: FCS attendance

The Top 20 schools averaged over 10,000 for home games, 12 that averaged over 15,000, and 4 that brought in over 20,000. Which is why I don't believe a cavernous stadium like Montana or James Madison is necessary. Tight confines on top of the action can make for a loud and big time atmosphere, which is why I'm a fan of what Stony Brook has done. Even the Gophers have to compete with the options the Twin Cities can provide on a beautiful fall day, however, I still think doubling down on football and really trying to be "St. Paul's college football team" could bring some people out that haven't been affiliated with UST in the past.

I'm pretty nervous about UST being cavalier about D1 college hockey, because I think the market is saturated and it's possible it could backfire. With the Wild and Gophers in their backyard and traditional hockey schools like UMD, SCSU and MSU-Mankato, nearby, it might prove impossible to get people excited for another D1 hockey program in a state that's clamoring for another D1 hoops or football team. That being said, I think the one thing even I have underestimated is how these insanely aggressive moves by UST over the last two decades have actually paid off. Pretty much every consultant UST brought in RE: the law school said not to do it. UST did it anyway, and instead of fledgling, it was William Mitchell and Hamline that suffered. Graduate programs, facility upgrades, engineering, a nursing school, etc. have all proved to be a boon for UST and have elevated it from a regional liberal arts school to more of a nationally recognized university. The next logical step is investing heavy in athletics, it's just a matter of picking the right sports to "flagship."

[OzJohnnie]

I've spent most of the last few days in a tractor with my son helping my cousin harvest soybeans, aiming to fulfill all of the Tommie snob stereotypes.

Probably this one, right?

[jamtod]

I've spent most of the last few days in a tractor with my son helping my cousin harvest soybeans, aiming to fulfill all of the Tommie snob stereotypes.

Probably this one, right?

Nah. A green one, no tracks either. Radio strong enough to pull in AM 830 in the past when I've been there on a Saturday afternoon.
Combine is red though, older one, very much not big-time.

[jamtod]

Back in the cities now, time to carb load in preparation for tomorrow's game.
Listened to the d3football.com podcast, Dave Lee's interview with Caruso (nothing groundbreaking, no real news on Parks/Loeffler status and mostly standard Caruso-speak about preparing for the week), and the VOJ football weekly show (nothing too provocative or spiteful there either, a little disappointing).

[Boys of Fall]

Does anyone know how the grass is at Allianz Field?  I seem to recall hearing the soccer team wasn't happy with it and the sod was replaced a few weeks ago.  If so, it's maybe taken by now, but hate to see a slippery field.

[SagatagSam]

Does anyone know how the grass is at Allianz Field?  I seem to recall hearing the soccer team wasn't happy with it and the sod was replaced a few weeks ago.  If so, it's maybe taken by now, but hate to see a slippery field.

Gary and some of the Johnnie coaches were planning on heading down to St. Paul this morning to check the turf out and get a lay of the land before tomorrow.  At least that was the plan when they recorded Johnnie Football Weekly yesterday.

I hope my nervousness related to the integrity of the grass is misplaced.

[jamtod]

Does anyone know how the grass is at Allianz Field?  I seem to recall hearing the soccer team wasn't happy with it and the sod was replaced a few weeks ago.  If so, it's maybe taken by now, but hate to see a slippery field.

Word is the grass is looking great, quite amazing for the quick turnaround.

[faunch]

24 hours from now it should all be about over.