FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OzJohnnie]

When what's-her-face at the Pioneer League said, "St Thomas?  Who dat?" she was reflecting the exclusive club mentality which D1 relies on to keep the big bucks rolling in. "We don't let just anybody into this club. Bushwood is exclusive, sir!"

[GoldandBlueBU]

Excellent points, OJ.

I would suspect that it will largely depend also on how much power the Summit league and their commissioner can wield, as they want UST in...so it's not just UST banging at the door, but a higher power also.

[jamtod]

This all seems very rational and well thought out, Oz. Did somebody hack your account?

[art76]

https://www.tommiemedia.com/news/exclusive-st-thomas-could-learn-di-fate-in-january-summit-official-says/?fbclid=IwAR3RQSRcOjPPSKf7VKPbyA4BwLjM4QddB9EsXXEEELS44gOK54DRdwJMIKE

Summit League commish says an answer from the NCAA not expected until at least January.

Or as late as April...interesting.  That would really put UST in a bind I would think if the answer is "no".  I wonder what their contingency plans are...

Unrelated - I think I found what Pat's "unethical" comments are related to Bethel were about.

https://twitter.com/d3photography/status/1185360971876818945

If it's that simple, then it's pretty (actually very) disappointing to me that BU handled things that way.  I'd be curious to hear the story from both sides.

First off, I do not have a twitter account, so this is all I can see from the link supplied by GoldAndBlueBU: "Because you banned us from the grounds for enforcing our photo license policy on you. #caughtredhanded"

This is not a sentence and only muddies the waters for me. Even if I wasn't a BU supporter, it looks like because of policies written down someplace important, and someone did not know of said policy, when asked to comply, they did, but begrudgingly. We all know ignorance of the law is no excuse, as I am sure some lawyers that follow this thread will attest to. That they complied speaks well of them. What's not evident is the manner in which compliance was enforced. Were there arrests? Were cameras and equipment confiscated? Is this simply a misunderstanding that has gotten more attention than needed? I don't know, and to speculate only churns the waters.

I would have thought that sports photographers would contact the appropriate authorities before the contest to get the "press badge" which allowed for said activity. Not doing that beforehand, if that's what happened, and then getting "caughredhanded", doesn't give you much of a defense, regardless of how the policy was enforced. Hmmm, all that from one non-sentence - I'm sure there's more, but this is probably the crux of the conversation.

[GoldandBlueBU]

First off, I do not have a twitter account, so this is all I can see from the link supplied by GoldAndBlueBU: "Because you banned us from the grounds for enforcing our photo license policy on you. #caughtredhanded"

This is not a sentence and only muddies the waters for me. Even if I wasn't a BU supporter, it looks like because of policies written down someplace important, and someone did not know of said policy, when asked to comply, they did, but begrudgingly. We all know ignorance of the law is no excuse, as I am sure some lawyers that follow this thread will attest to. That they complied speaks well of them. What's not evident is the manner in which compliance was enforced. Were there arrests? Were cameras and equipment confiscated? Is this simply a misunderstanding that has gotten more attention than needed? I don't know, and to speculate only churns the waters.

I would have thought that sports photographers would contact the appropriate authorities before the contest to get the "press badge" which allowed for said activity. Not doing that beforehand, if that's what happened, and then getting "caughredhanded", doesn't give you much of a defense, regardless of how the policy was enforced. Hmmm, all that from one non-sentence - I'm sure there's more, but this is probably the crux of the conversation.

Right - like I said, I'd be interested to hear the full story / facts from both sides.  If it is as Pat seems to imply (as I read it), then perhaps BU was using d3photography images for their articles without permission / license purchase?  If BU's response was to stop using the images and use in-house photos instead, but then also ban d3photos from campus simply because they got called out, then that's poor.

I'm guessing Mr. Coleman will chime in, but maybe not.

[OzJohnnie]

This all seems very rational and well thought out, Oz. Did somebody hack your account?

With that sort of attitude they'll never let you use the nice silverware and genuine china.

[MiacMan]

https://www.tommiemedia.com/news/exclusive-st-thomas-could-learn-di-fate-in-january-summit-official-says/?fbclid=IwAR3RQSRcOjPPSKf7VKPbyA4BwLjM4QddB9EsXXEEELS44gOK54DRdwJMIKE

Summit League commish says an answer from the NCAA not expected until at least January.

I suspect UST may be facing two fronts of resistance. First, and most obvious, are schools currently or formerly in transition saying to the NCAA committees, "Wait?  All I need to do is hire a D1 administrator and get some big donors to bankroll us? I had that and you made me take ten years anyways!"  They could have some pretty disgruntled members if St Thomas is able to avoid the time and expense they were forced to undertake.

Second, and perhaps less obvious, are current D1 members who are interested in protecting the exclusivity of the D1 club. Sure, they say it's hard to get into because you need to prepare, etc, but the real reason for the difficult path is to make sure being a D1 school remains an exclusive and valuable $$$ honour. If any Tom, Dick or Harry can get in with a good sob story and a few dollars then D1 is no longer an exclusive club. D3 is for the sporting little people, D2 is for the pretenders and D1 is for the special people. If it's easy to get to D1 then it's no longer special.

I suspect it's less about the actual merits UST presents and more about the consequences if the NCAA says yes.

IMO, drawing from past experiences is that the NCAA is considered to be one of the biggest bullies out there. Plain and simple they own college sports and will do what ever is best for them. They are not worried or concerned with a few member institutions crying about unfair treatment or protecting their exclusiveness. Bottom line, if they want another D1 institution in the Minnesota/Twin Cities market it is going to happen and the NCAA will not be answering to anybody, period.

[OzJohnnie]

https://www.tommiemedia.com/news/exclusive-st-thomas-could-learn-di-fate-in-january-summit-official-says/?fbclid=IwAR3RQSRcOjPPSKf7VKPbyA4BwLjM4QddB9EsXXEEELS44gOK54DRdwJMIKE

Summit League commish says an answer from the NCAA not expected until at least January.

Or as late as April...interesting.  That would really put UST in a bind I would think if the answer is "no".  I wonder what their contingency plans are...

Unrelated - I think I found what Pat's "unethical" comments are related to Bethel were about.

https://twitter.com/d3photography/status/1185360971876818945

If it's that simple, then it's pretty (actually very) disappointing to me that BU handled things that way.  I'd be curious to hear the story from both sides.

First off, I do not have a twitter account, so this is all I can see from the link supplied by GoldAndBlueBU: "Because you banned us from the grounds for enforcing our photo license policy on you. #caughtredhanded"

This is not a sentence and only muddies the waters for me. Even if I wasn't a BU supporter, it looks like because of policies written down someplace important, and someone did not know of said policy, when asked to comply, they did, but begrudgingly. We all know ignorance of the law is no excuse, as I am sure some lawyers that follow this thread will attest to. That they complied speaks well of them. What's not evident is the manner in which compliance was enforced. Were there arrests? Were cameras and equipment confiscated? Is this simply a misunderstanding that has gotten more attention than needed? I don't know, and to speculate only churns the waters.

I would have thought that sports photographers would contact the appropriate authorities before the contest to get the "press badge" which allowed for said activity. Not doing that beforehand, if that's what happened, and then getting "caughredhanded", doesn't give you much of a defense, regardless of how the policy was enforced. Hmmm, all that from one non-sentence - I'm sure there's more, but this is probably the crux of the conversation.

It sounds to me like BU used a d3football photo without permission, certainly without ill intent, in a brochure or something.  Words were exchanged and it ended with something like:

Argument over rights, costs, reasonableness of photo usage...

"We don't need to cover BU, you know!"

"OK, then you can't come here and take photos ever again!"

"Fine!"

"Fine!"

[OzJohnnie]

IMO, drawing from past experiences is that the NCAA is considered to be one of the biggest bullies out there. Plain and simple they own college sports and will do what ever is best for them. They are not worried or concerned with a few member institutions crying about unfair treatment or protecting their exclusiveness. Bottom line, if they want another D1 institution in the Minnesota/Twin Cities market it is going to happen and the NCAA will not be answering to anybody, period.

There's that, too.  The flip-side of the exclusive club argument is that if they want to let the Costanzas into Boca Vista Phase II then they will even if the Seinfelds have a fit.  "We're filling this club the way we want to fill it."  That would certainly be the angle which UST would push and it's the argument underlying the Summit commissioner's support when he talks about UST's size and geo location really filling out the Summit.  The juice this guy and the other Summit schools have will be important, that's for sure.

[OzJohnnie]

IMO, drawing from past experiences is that the NCAA is considered to be one of the biggest bullies out there. Plain and simple they own college sports and will do what ever is best for them. They are not worried or concerned with a few member institutions crying about unfair treatment or protecting their exclusiveness. Bottom line, if they want another D1 institution in the Minnesota/Twin Cities market it is going to happen and the NCAA will not be answering to anybody, period.

There's that, too.  The flip-side of the exclusive club argument is that if they want to let the Costanzas into Boca Vista Phase II then they will even if the Seinfelds have a fit.  "We're filling this club the way we want to fill it."  That would certainly be the angle which UST would push and it's the argument underlying the Summit commissioner's support when he talks about UST's size and geo location really filling out the Summit.  The juice this guy and the other Summit schools have will be important, that's for sure.

If I had the time (I have the inclination but work must happen at some point) I would go through the list of all the NCAA D1 subcommittees and see if any of the members are from Summit schools.  I had a look at the membership of the strategy committtee a few weeks ago and they were most FBS schools which I recognized, but I'm running off a half an image in my head so I can't be sure.  Regardless, UST will be hoping that these committee care about the health and welfare of the Summit conference.

[OzJohnnie]

Question (yes, working avoided for five more minutes):

Is this the year that CON finally gives up on the ancient offense?  It's reached a point of undeniable embarrassment.  It looks like stubbornness for the sake of being stubborn.  The defense is modern and dynamic so they aren't absolutely opposed to growing with the times.  But, damn, they are stubborn on offense.

[DuffMan]

My theory is that if you look in the Concordia record books as to who holds many of those receiving records, you have your answer. 

[MiacMan]

IMO, drawing from past experiences is that the NCAA is considered to be one of the biggest bullies out there. Plain and simple they own college sports and will do what ever is best for them. They are not worried or concerned with a few member institutions crying about unfair treatment or protecting their exclusiveness. Bottom line, if they want another D1 institution in the Minnesota/Twin Cities market it is going to happen and the NCAA will not be answering to anybody, period.

There's that, too.  The flip-side of the exclusive club argument is that if they want to let the Costanzas into Boca Vista Phase II then they will even if the Seinfelds have a fit.  "We're filling this club the way we want to fill it."  That would certainly be the angle which UST would push and it's the argument underlying the Summit commissioner's support when he talks about UST's size and geo location really filling out the Summit.  The juice this guy and the other Summit schools have will be important, that's for sure.

If I had the time (I have the inclination but work must happen at some point) I would go through the list of all the NCAA D1 subcommittees and see if any of the members are from Summit schools.  I had a look at the membership of the strategy committtee a few weeks ago and they were most FBS schools which I recognized, but I'm running off a half an image in my head so I can't be sure.  Regardless, UST will be hoping that these committee care about the health and welfare of the Summit conference.

Ha! I love the Seinfeld reference! +K,  I referenced an episode a week or so ago but nobody caught it. I assumed we didn't have a big following of "the Sein"

[Pat Coleman]

First off, I do not have a twitter account, so this is all I can see from the link supplied by GoldAndBlueBU: "Because you banned us from the grounds for enforcing our photo license policy on you. #caughtredhanded"

This is not a sentence and only muddies the waters for me. Even if I wasn't a BU supporter, it looks like because of policies written down someplace important, and someone did not know of said policy, when asked to comply, they did, but begrudgingly. We all know ignorance of the law is no excuse, as I am sure some lawyers that follow this thread will attest to. That they complied speaks well of them. What's not evident is the manner in which compliance was enforced. Were there arrests? Were cameras and equipment confiscated? Is this simply a misunderstanding that has gotten more attention than needed? I don't know, and to speculate only churns the waters.

I would have thought that sports photographers would contact the appropriate authorities before the contest to get the "press badge" which allowed for said activity. Not doing that beforehand, if that's what happened, and then getting "caughredhanded", doesn't give you much of a defense, regardless of how the policy was enforced. Hmmm, all that from one non-sentence - I'm sure there's more, but this is probably the crux of the conversation.

Right - like I said, I'd be interested to hear the full story / facts from both sides.  If it is as Pat seems to imply (as I read it), then perhaps BU was using d3photography images for their articles without permission / license purchase?  If BU's response was to stop using the images and use in-house photos instead, but then also ban d3photos from campus simply because they got called out, then that's poor.

I'm guessing Mr. Coleman will chime in, but maybe not.

Not using them. Selling them on their own resale site in pretty blatant violation of the express license which is on every email from those guys to schools.

That's as much as I want to say in public, but it happened, an athletic staffer in position to know admitted to it, and the university declined to make good.

[TheChucker]

Question (yes, working avoided for five more minutes):

Is this the year that CON finally gives up on the ancient offense?  It's reached a point of undeniable embarrassment.  It looks like stubbornness for the sake of being stubborn.  The defense is modern and dynamic so they aren't absolutely opposed to growing with the times.  But, damn, they are stubborn on offense.

My texting group of middle-aged Cob football alums has been wondering the same thing. Perplexed is a non-vulgar way to describe the general attitude.