FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sjusection105]

That's going to be a big challenge and Esten has talked about efforts to boost student and alumni participation. On the other hand, our current attendance numbers (in the top half of the MIAC which has generally solid attendance relative to D3) aren't too far out of line with other Pioneer League teams and as non-scholarship (for now) it's not going to be expected to be a huge revenue sport for now.

He will earn his pay to fill 20K per game if the MVFC is the destination. Gophers struggle to fill 50K for Big 10 games.

[OzJohnnie]

I just found this article over on the east boards.  Luckily, we haven't had (or are blissfully unaware of) an MIAC school in a similar situation.

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/12/09/wesley-college-seeks-3-2-million-state-amid-financial-stress/2632163001/?fbclid=IwAR1JlvVZOh36oeM6G5tFqZDlUM85lFif1LyVX4p6-tCZkXHmjrSJwm5Nr0A

But as I've long maintained, and still do, these pressures had more to do with the UST situation than athletic performance.  Regardless, the MAC president sitting atop his pile of cash and tut-tutting his way through that article is no different, in principle, to Caruso running up a 97-0 score.  There's more reckoning to come.

[jamtod]

I just found this article over on the east boards.  Luckily, we haven't had (or are blissfully unaware of) an MIAC school in a similar situation.

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/12/09/wesley-college-seeks-3-2-million-state-amid-financial-stress/2632163001/?fbclid=IwAR1JlvVZOh36oeM6G5tFqZDlUM85lFif1LyVX4p6-tCZkXHmjrSJwm5Nr0A

But as I've long maintained, and still do, these pressures had more to do with the UST situation than athletic performance.  Regardless, the MAC president sitting atop his pile of cash and tut-tutting his way through that article is no different, in principle, to Caruso running up a 97-0 score.  There's more reckoning to come.

I think those pressures absolutely factored in. But I also have yet to see any reasonable explanation for how having St Thomas out of the MIAC actually helps those schools with their enrollment and financial pressures.

[jamtod]

That's going to be a big challenge and Esten has talked about efforts to boost student and alumni participation. On the other hand, our current attendance numbers (in the top half of the MIAC which has generally solid attendance relative to D3) aren't too far out of line with other Pioneer League teams and as non-scholarship (for now) it's not going to be expected to be a huge revenue sport for now.

He will earn his pay to fill 20K per game if the MVFC is the destination. Gophers struggle to fill 50K for Big 10 games.

If the MVFC is the destination, it's not going to be for a while. If the D1 thing goes through, UST will seek affiliation with the Pioneer League. Those in the know have suggested that it would be at least 5-6 years there before a scholarship MVFC jump is considered.

A lot of work to be done though.

[MadRedFan]

That's going to be a big challenge and Esten has talked about efforts to boost student and alumni participation. On the other hand, our current attendance numbers (in the top half of the MIAC which has generally solid attendance relative to D3) aren't too far out of line with other Pioneer League teams and as non-scholarship (for now) it's not going to be expected to be a huge revenue sport for now.

He will earn his pay to fill 20K per game if the MVFC is the destination. Gophers struggle to fill 50K for Big 10 games.

Yes, but average MVFC attendance is nowhere near 20K per game.  Conference avg. less than 10K per game, with NDSU near 20K, the other Dakotas, Youngstown St and Illinois St. around 10K, and So. Illinois, Indiana St. and Missouri St. closer to 6K. Western Ill. is having some big budget problems is around 3-4K lately.

And I'm not convinced the MVFC is gonna welcome UST anytime soon, waiver or not.  We'll see.

[jamtod]

And I'm not convinced the MVFC is gonna welcome UST anytime soon, waiver or not.  We'll see.

They won't need to consider it anytime soon as MVFC is not going to be the route.

[miac952]

Average salary 10 years after graduating from Macalester: $54,100.
Average salary 10 years after graduating from St. Thomas: $62,000.
Cost per year (tuition, books, fees, room and board, etc.) at Macalester: $68,627.
Cost per year (tuition, books, fees, room and board, etc.) at St. Thomas: $56,664.

Source?

https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/minnesota/university-of-st-thomas/outcomes/

Primary data source is US DOE reporting

[OzJohnnie]

I think those pressures absolutely factored in. But I also have yet to see any reasonable explanation for how having St Thomas out of the MIAC actually helps those schools with their enrollment and financial pressures.

I've got no actual idea, obviously, but I would guess the thought is that with UST out of the MIAC then they won't be competing (and stealing as some claim) athletes from other MIAC institutions.  UST will start looking for athletes with a different profile than the MIAC student is how the argument goes, I think.  The hints were that UST was competing too aggressively on the field and too unfairly in the recruiting.  Even if that's true and justified, it doesn't fix the problem long term.  You've just shifted the division in the MIAC from one set of poles to another (financial viability.  Endowment, most crudely).

There will still be a reckoning but maybe the can has been kicked down the road ten or fifteen years.  And who knows?  Maybe something will change in the education industry by then.  Maybe the education bubble will burst and this extra time will allow the MIAC schools to come out the other side when other leagues struggle.  I guess.

[jamtod]

Yes, but average MVFC attendance is nowhere near 20K per game.  Conference avg. less than 10K per game, with NDSU near 20K, the other Dakotas, Youngstown St and Illinois St. around 10K, and So. Illinois, Indiana St. and Missouri St. closer to 6K. Western Ill. is having some big budget problems is around 3-4K lately.

Pioneer League average of 2,684 is exactly in line with what UST had in a year that lacked home games against any of the big opponents.
Still won't have much away attendance draw (Drake away crowd might be comparable to Hamline away crowd moving down Snelling? I have no idea).

[DuffMan]

Terrible news for SCSU.  What a crap situation. Hopefully, a few players head a few miles west on I94.

[jamtod]

I think those pressures absolutely factored in. But I also have yet to see any reasonable explanation for how having St Thomas out of the MIAC actually helps those schools with their enrollment and financial pressures.

I've got no actual idea, obviously, but I would guess the thought is that with UST out of the MIAC then they won't be competing (and stealing as some claim) athletes from other MIAC institutions.  UST will start looking for athletes with a different profile than the MIAC student is how the argument goes, I think.  The hints were that UST was competing too aggressively on the field and too unfairly in the recruiting.  Even if that's true and justified, it doesn't fix the problem long term.  You've just shifted the division in the MIAC from one set of poles to another (financial viability.  Endowment, most crudely).

There will still be a reckoning but maybe the can has been kicked down the road ten or fifteen years.  And who knows?  Maybe something will change in the education industry by then.  Maybe the education bubble will burst and this extra time will allow the MIAC schools to come out the other side when other leagues struggle.  I guess.

I get the logic behind UST being gone improving potential athletic outcomes. But the issue at hand has to do with overall enrollment and financial viability, if we are making the argument that athletic parity wasn't actually the primary/only driving factor.

[OzJohnnie]

Terrible news for SCSU.  What a crap situation. Hopefully, a few players head a few miles west on I94.

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that.

[OzJohnnie]

I think those pressures absolutely factored in. But I also have yet to see any reasonable explanation for how having St Thomas out of the MIAC actually helps those schools with their enrollment and financial pressures.

I've got no actual idea, obviously, but I would guess the thought is that with UST out of the MIAC then they won't be competing (and stealing as some claim) athletes from other MIAC institutions.  UST will start looking for athletes with a different profile than the MIAC student is how the argument goes, I think.  The hints were that UST was competing too aggressively on the field and too unfairly in the recruiting.  Even if that's true and justified, it doesn't fix the problem long term.  You've just shifted the division in the MIAC from one set of poles to another (financial viability.  Endowment, most crudely).

There will still be a reckoning but maybe the can has been kicked down the road ten or fifteen years.  And who knows?  Maybe something will change in the education industry by then.  Maybe the education bubble will burst and this extra time will allow the MIAC schools to come out the other side when other leagues struggle.  I guess.

I get the logic behind UST being gone improving potential athletic outcomes. But the issue at hand has to do with overall enrollment and financial viability, if we are making the argument that athletic parity wasn't actually the primary/only driving factor.

You also have to consider aggressive UST recruiting.  The whispering that Caruso, for example, over recruited and then cut players once they were at UST, often "stealing" these players from other schools they were considering.  I think much of the financial viability question is there, at least short term.  I don't think anyone (who is reasonable) thinks addressing that grievance would do anything more than kick the can down the road a little ways.  Hence the shift to the financial viability poles.  It's inevitable.

[Pat Coleman]

Terrible news for SCSU.  What a crap situation. Hopefully, a few players head a few miles west on I94.

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that.

That was the first thing I thought!

[jamtod]

I think those pressures absolutely factored in. But I also have yet to see any reasonable explanation for how having St Thomas out of the MIAC actually helps those schools with their enrollment and financial pressures.

I've got no actual idea, obviously, but I would guess the thought is that with UST out of the MIAC then they won't be competing (and stealing as some claim) athletes from other MIAC institutions.  UST will start looking for athletes with a different profile than the MIAC student is how the argument goes, I think.  The hints were that UST was competing too aggressively on the field and too unfairly in the recruiting.  Even if that's true and justified, it doesn't fix the problem long term.  You've just shifted the division in the MIAC from one set of poles to another (financial viability.  Endowment, most crudely).

There will still be a reckoning but maybe the can has been kicked down the road ten or fifteen years.  And who knows?  Maybe something will change in the education industry by then.  Maybe the education bubble will burst and this extra time will allow the MIAC schools to come out the other side when other leagues struggle.  I guess.

I get the logic behind UST being gone improving potential athletic outcomes. But the issue at hand has to do with overall enrollment and financial viability, if we are making the argument that athletic parity wasn't actually the primary/only driving factor.

You also have to consider aggressive UST recruiting.  The whispering that Caruso, for example, over recruited and then cut players once they were at UST, often "stealing" these players from other schools they were considering.  I think much of the financial viability question is there, at least short term.  I don't think anyone (who is reasonable) thinks addressing that grievance would do anything more than kick the can down the road a little ways.  Hence the shift to the financial viability poles.  It's inevitable.

I still don't understand how that is a core enrollment/financial issue and not an athletic "play nice" problem. Unless you are suggesting UST enrolled these players where otherwise they would have attended a different institution (adding to these other rosters and helping overall enrollment)? And with UST going to FCS in football, they will be more limited to how many players can be on the roster (maybe? I know there are scholarship limits but are there roster limits?)