FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Texas Ole]

I know a vaccine would be great, but the good news is that it appears we have a couple of drugs that could work in fighting this virus.  The more options for antivirals we find over the next few months the better.  We still don't know if this will be a one time viral or a seasonal issue.  Like so many illnesses it is tough to know the full extent of the virus until much later.  Places with large crowds always add a sense of danger.  It doesn't mean they are unsafe, but the risks are greater in those environments.  I think we are moving closer to an understanding that we may never be able to contain this virus and kill it through isolation.  We are stuck with it.  I think we are getting closer to some victories over it.  The big questions with any virus are prevention and care.  I think we need to look at this virus like a severe flu.  There are precautions to take to stop the spread, but it doesn't control us.  We also know what is needed once someone contracts the flu.  This country is going to have to find similar solutions.

I am starting to believe this virus may have been in the US longer than we think.  One of my favorite talk show hosts has had several people call in to say they got the antibody test for the virus, and it was determined they likely had it in 2019.  This past winter I was sick for about 2 weeks, and it was not my normal winter illness.  I believe there is a chance I had the virus.  I think I have stated earlier that we had multiple schools close for the flu in DFW.  There are a few wondering if it was something other than the flu.

[OzJohnnie]

wif:

I understand your dilemma completely. It is a very scary decision for all of you
Our two daughters are in a similar situation; one is an elementary school  teacher, the other works at our alma mater Hope College directly involved with students  The problem with current testing is that it only accounts for that day as you could be negative then and two days later be positive. Until they come up with a test that correlates with possible antibody protection-IF the latter proves to be true, I do not see how we can truly be safe. I also do not realistically see how we can protect players, coaching staffs, the athletic training staffs and, yes, even us team physicians, even if games were to be played in empty stadiums IF there is a football season this fall. At this point, I am just not sure what would be the best option, even while we are all trying to come up with several potential scenarios as to how to proceed this fall. I fear for our daughters, just like you do for yours and your wife. All we can do right now is continue to pray. Hang in there.

Yes, it certainly won't be easy, wif.  I wish you and your family well.  Stay safe.

[faunch]

I know a vaccine would be great, but the good news is that it appears we have a couple of drugs that could work in fighting this virus.  The more options for antivirals we find over the next few months the better.  We still don't know if this will be a one time viral or a seasonal issue.  Like so many illnesses it is tough to know the full extent of the virus until much later.  Places with large crowds always add a sense of danger.  It doesn't mean they are unsafe, but the risks are greater in those environments.  I think we are moving closer to an understanding that we may never be able to contain this virus and kill it through isolation.  We are stuck with it.  I think we are getting closer to some victories over it.  The big questions with any virus are prevention and care.  I think we need to look at this virus like a severe flu.  There are precautions to take to stop the spread, but it doesn't control us.  We also know what is needed once someone contracts the flu.  This country is going to have to find similar solutions.

I am starting to believe this virus may have been in the US longer than we think.  One of my favorite talk show hosts has had several people call in to say they got the antibody test for the virus, and it was determined they likely had it in 2019.  This past winter I was sick for about 2 weeks, and it was not my normal winter illness.  I believe there is a chance I had the virus.  I think I have stated earlier that we had multiple schools close for the flu in DFW.  There are a few wondering if it was something other than the flu.

I shared previously on these pages that at the end of January /early February I was as sick as I've ever been. Thought it was the flu but all my symptoms match up exactly w/ C-19. The night before I got sick I had this nagging cough...something like I'd never had before. I knew I was coming down w/ something. Went to work the next day and everybody told me to go home. Spent the next 3 or 4 days in bed w/ an elephant on my chest and an 800 pound gorilla bear hugging me. For about 2.5 days I just wanted to die...I could not catch my breath...felt like I was suffocating. I'm a teacher and had to put in a sub request two mornings in a row. To this day I have no idea how I was able to enter the information into the computer...I could barely pick up my MacBook and typing was nearly impossible I got a prescription for a flu antiviral and puked it up so horribly I didn't take the medication again. I had a fever and was sweating in the bed so bad I soaked the be and had to change clothes and may have even shat myself...it was horrible. Went back to work the next week but probably should have stayed home for another week. I was so exhausted that I would take a nap in my office during my lunch and prep time. In all it took me 2-3 weeks to recover and I probably was coughing for about a month. My wife did get sick shortly after me but her illness only last 2-3 days.
I hope to God that I had the virus because I don't want to get that sick again anytime soon. I really would like to have an antibody test because if it were to come up positive it would be verification that the virus was in St. Paul in January.
(Apologies for some of the graphic details).

[repete]

Faunch,

Your story sounds very similar to the new neighbor (an Ithaca guy, it turns out). He shared an office in downtown DC with a guy and both  came down in late February with symptoms very similar to yours. He came home and self-isolated (tough with a 2-YO and a wife who was  8 1/2 months pregnant). But the co-worker, whose wife was begging docs to find a test, got one but the results were lost and it took an intervention by the Va. governor's office to get another, which showed him as positive. He spent more than a week on ventilator in a coma, but survived. These are young guys. The wife's delivery ended up going fine and all is good now. The county just topped 400 deaths.

[OzJohnnie]

Spent the next 3 or 4 days in bed w/ an elephant on my chest and an 800 pound gorilla bear hugging me.

That sounds like your typical long weekend recovery to me...

[MUC57]

I know a vaccine would be great, but the good news is that it appears we have a couple of drugs that could work in fighting this virus.  The more options for antivirals we find over the next few months the better.  We still don't know if this will be a one time viral or a seasonal issue.  Like so many illnesses it is tough to know the full extent of the virus until much later.  Places with large crowds always add a sense of danger.  It doesn't mean they are unsafe, but the risks are greater in those environments.  I think we are moving closer to an understanding that we may never be able to contain this virus and kill it through isolation.  We are stuck with it.  I think we are getting closer to some victories over it.  The big questions with any virus are prevention and care.  I think we need to look at this virus like all of  severe flu.  There are precautions to take to stop the spread, but it doesn't control us.  We also know what is needed once someone contracts the flu.  This country is going to have to find similar solutions.

I am starting to believe this virus may have been in the US longer than we think.  One of my favorite talk show hosts has had several people call in to say they got the antibody test for the virus, and it was determined they likely had it in 2019.  This past winter I was sick for about 2 weeks, and it was not my normal winter illness.  I believe there is a chance I had the virus.  I think I have stated earlier that we had multiple schools close for the flu in DFW.  There are a few wondering if it was something other than the flu.

I shared previously on these pages that at the end of January /early February I was as sick as I've ever been. Thought it was the flu but all my symptoms match up exactly w/ C-19. The night before I got sick I had this nagging cough...something like I'd never had before. I knew I was coming down w/ something. Went to work the next day and everybody told me to go home. Spent the next 3 or 4 days in bed w/ an elephant on my chest and an 800 pound gorilla bear hugging me. For about 2.5 days I just wanted to die...I could not catch my breath...felt like I was suffocating. I'm a teacher and had to put in a sub request two mornings in a row. To this day I have no idea how I was able to enter the information into the computer...I could barely pick up my MacBook and typing was nearly impossible I got a prescription for a flu antiviral and puked it up so horribly I didn't take the medication again. I had a fever and was sweating in the bed so bad I soaked the be and had to change clothes and may have even shat myself...it was horrible. Went back to work the next week but probably should have stayed home for another week. I was so exhausted that I would take a nap in my office during my lunch and prep time. In all it took me 2-3 weeks to recover and I probably was coughing for about a month. My wife did get sick shortly after me but her illness only last 2-3 days.
I hope to God that I had the virus because I don't want to get that sick again anytime soon. I really would like to have an antibody test because if it were to come up positive it would be verification that the virus was in St. Paul in January.
(Apologies for some of the graphic details).

faunch

That's some story. Scary.
Glad you and the wife are doing fine. Stay safe! 

[art76]

I shared previously on these pages that at the end of January /early February I was as sick as I've ever been. Thought it was the flu but all my symptoms match up exactly w/ C-19. The night before I got sick I had this nagging cough...something like I'd never had before. I knew I was coming down w/ something. Went to work the next day and everybody told me to go home. Spent the next 3 or 4 days in bed w/ an elephant on my chest and an 800 pound gorilla bear hugging me. For about 2.5 days I just wanted to die...I could not catch my breath...felt like I was suffocating. I'm a teacher and had to put in a sub request two mornings in a row. To this day I have no idea how I was able to enter the information into the computer...I could barely pick up my MacBook and typing was nearly impossible I got a prescription for a flu antiviral and puked it up so horribly I didn't take the medication again. I had a fever and was sweating in the bed so bad I soaked the be and had to change clothes and may have even shat myself...it was horrible. Went back to work the next week but probably should have stayed home for another week. I was so exhausted that I would take a nap in my office during my lunch and prep time. In all it took me 2-3 weeks to recover and I probably was coughing for about a month. My wife did get sick shortly after me but her illness only last 2-3 days.
I hope to God that I had the virus because I don't want to get that sick again anytime soon. I really would like to have an antibody test because if it were to come up positive it would be verification that the virus was in St. Paul in January.
(Apologies for some of the graphic details).

Faunch,

I do remember your mentioning it back then. Because misery loves company, I can relay that my sister and brother-in-law came down with similar symptoms at the end of January/beginning of February. They are quite certain they got it, too. My sister is a radiation tech in the health field and figures she brought it home from a lung x-ray patient - all before social distancing was a thing.

[faunch]

Faunch,

Your story sounds very similar to the new neighbor (an Ithaca guy, it turns out). He shared an office in downtown DC with a guy and both  came down in late February with symptoms very similar to yours. He came home and self-isolated (tough with a 2-YO and a wife who was  8 1/2 months pregnant). But the co-worker, whose wife was begging docs to find a test, got one but the results were lost and it took an intervention by the Va. governor's office to get another, which showed him as positive. He spent more than a week on ventilator in a coma, but survived. These are young guys. The wife's delivery ended up going fine and all is good now. The county just topped 400 deaths.

My sense is there are number of people that believe if we've got enough ventilators we're gonna be ok. Putting a person on one of those machines and sedating them is no easy task. I also wonder what percent of people that were on vents will have long term complications.

I'm also concerned that with the stay in place orders being lifted people are going to thing we're out of the woods. My opinion is that we've got a long way to go and there's no proof that prior exposure provides an immunity. I don't believe much of greater and rural Minnesota, where the population is considerably older, has had exposure to the virus. When some small town has bunch of infections and handful of deaths are people going to change their tune?

[DuffMan]

I really would like to have an antibody test because if it were to come up positive it would be verification that the virus was in St. Paul in January.
(Apologies for some of the graphic details).

You should be able to get one.  My sister got one a week or two ago.

[formerd3db]

Faunch,

Your story sounds very similar to the new neighbor (an Ithaca guy, it turns out). He shared an office in downtown DC with a guy and both  came down in late February with symptoms very similar to yours. He came home and self-isolated (tough with a 2-YO and a wife who was  8 1/2 months pregnant). But the co-worker, whose wife was begging docs to find a test, got one but the results were lost and it took an intervention by the Va. governor's office to get another, which showed him as positive. He spent more than a week on ventilator in a coma, but survived. These are young guys. The wife's delivery ended up going fine and all is good now. The county just topped 400 deaths.

My sense is there are number of people that believe if we've got enough ventilators we're gonna be ok. Putting a person on one of those machines and sedating them is no easy task. I also wonder what percent of people that were on vents will have long term complications.

I'm also concerned that with the stay in place orders being lifted people are going to thing we're out of the woods. My opinion is that we've got a long way to go and there's no proof that prior exposure provides an immunity. I don't believe much of greater and rural Minnesota, where the population is considerably older, has had exposure to the virus. When some small town has bunch of infections and handful of deaths are people going to change their tune?

I, too, now recall you mentioning you were "under the weather" back then.  That old cliche/phrase ("under the weather") is certainly an understatement with regard to your sharing the description of your symptoms and what you went through.  IMO, no need for apologies as to the graphics.  This virus is devastatingly frightening and, IMO, people need to be aware of what the terrible experience can be for many people regardless of the fact that many people who get Covid-19 are asymptomatic.  One of the nation's top orthopedic surgeons who lives in New York City (and who, BTW, heads some of the top orthopedic organizations also in research, education, etc., in addition to maintaining his active, very busy practice) shared his and his wife's own experience in getting Covid-19 in March. They definitely tested positive and he described the exact same symptoms and experience as you did - and it was terrible he stated.  During the week that he came down with the symptoms (this was before all the lockdowns there and elsewhere in the country), he was seeing patients and doing surgery right up until that time, had a nice wedding anniversary dinner on a Thursday evening with his wife, then went to do his normal exercise and weightlifting workout the following morning the symptoms began. It lasted for over 11 days and, although he and his wife were not hospitalized (he almost considered it), they had a terrifying and miserable experience just like yours (he related his lungs feeling like they had cement in them and he couldn't breath, severely aching joints, fever, sweating, fatigue, etc.) They self treated with plain Tylenol and OTC Motrin.  By the Lord's grace, they survived and are doing fine now.  BTW, I am not violating HIPPA regulations here because this surgeon shared and published his experience in one of the public orthopedic journals and magazines about 3-4 weeks ago.     

First and foremost, I am glad you and your wife are fine and survived.   However, I am also glad you shared your experience with us (based on what you shared, I do believe you likely had Covid, yet as you mention, if you are able to get the antibody test that could confirm it).  My cousin was severely sick about that same time, but she definitely had an extremely severe case of the flu (worst she ever had she said and it lasted for about 8-9 days).  Which, BTW, many people do not realize the flu season was significant this year in the country-the worst in 10 years and significant deaths occurred from that as well and this has been, unfortunately, overlooked by both the medical and general public communities. So when we all are considering options as to whether or not fall sports should occur this year, it is extremely scary for everyone, and especially if you are one of the unfortunate people who would get the virus and become symptomatic. Certainly, we cannot 100% protect ourselves or anybody as several other of our colleagues posters here have correctly written about. And while many people might be asymptomatic and/or survive if they ended up having symptoms, you can't go to school or play sports if your dead-obviously, I hope that would never happen. 

There is so much that is in play for this and, of which, we have no answers to at the present time.  As I have mentioned in posts before, I am very apprehensive and am not sure what is the right way to proceed at present.  Thanks for sharing your story and, again, I am glad you and your wife are safe/healthy after your experience.  Everyone here, stay safe and...follow the protocols, please.
   

[stanbob]

Oh, and the UFC started fighting again.

https://sports.yahoo.com/gaethje-dominates-ufcs-return-trump-congratulates-promoters-075855463--spt.html

And baseball will have a mini-preseason in July with an 82 game season starting in June.  It's all coming together.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/497186-baseball-owners-approve-plan-for-early-july-start-to-season-report

Not wanting to create controversy, but NASCAR starts real racing Sunday as well

[hazzben]

So it looks like some states are making the decision to go online, thereby canceling fall sports in 2020 (e.g. California) and others are saying they are confident they'll be on campus (e.g. Wisconsin).

Way to early hypotheticals. Also, this is just me thinking outloud. I'm not advocating for what any state/school should or shouldn't be doing in terms of fall classes, sports, etc.

Scenario 1: Most of the country decides to have classes on campus and fall sports. Some regions/states do not. If there was a post-season, how would it be held if a certain number Pool A conferences didn't play? Do their bids become Pool C? Assumption: There would still be a full field, just filled with extra Pool C. Although we'd see an understandably penny pinched, highly regionalized bracket.

Scenario 2: Or what if in, say the NWC, half the conference decides not to play and a school like Linfield only has a 6 game season with only 3 conference games? Assumption: The league would keep it's bid and be in the field.

Scenario 3: The regular season is played, but due to COVID concerns the post-season is canceled. It's also a way for the NCAA to save money (though they don't admit this is part of their rationale). Strangely, the non-NCAA run FBS still finds a way to have the CFP and there are still bowl games. Assumption: I think this is actually maybe the most likely scenario. At the end of the day, the NCAA needs to save some serious money, and one easy way to do that, with the cover of safety concerns, is to simply cancel all fall post-season events and associated costs.

If it's the third scenario, would teams that have aspirations for a national title have players who opt to gray shirt? Say Mount Union or Wheaton or UMHB. If I'm a senior on one of those teams, I might not want to burn my last year of eligibility on a season where my team can't win a title. 

[BDB]

NASCAR starts real racing Sunday as well

I think they will get the race in but it might get interrupted by thunderstorms a time or two.

At least they won't have to worry about clearing the fans out of the stands.

[Pat Coleman]

So it looks like some states are making the decision to go online, thereby canceling fall sports in 2020 (e.g. California) and others are saying they are confident they'll be on campus (e.g. Wisconsin).

Way to early hypotheticals. Also, this is just me thinking outloud. I'm not advocating for what any state/school should or shouldn't be doing in terms of fall classes, sports, etc.

Scenario 1: Most of the country decides to have classes on campus and fall sports. Some regions/states do not. If there was a post-season, how would it be held if a certain number Pool A conferences didn't play? Do their bids become Pool C? Assumption: There would still be a full field, just filled with extra Pool C. Although we'd see an understandably penny pinched, highly regionalized bracket.

Scenario 2: Or what if in, say the NWC, half the conference decides not to play and a school like Linfield only has a 6 game season with only 3 conference games? Assumption: The league would keep it's bid and be in the field.

Scenario 3: The regular season is played, but due to COVID concerns the post-season is canceled. It's also a way for the NCAA to save money (though they don't admit this is part of their rationale). Strangely, the non-NCAA run FBS still finds a way to have the CFP and there are still bowl games. Assumption: I think this is actually maybe the most likely scenario. At the end of the day, the NCAA needs to save some serious money, and one easy way to do that, with the cover of safety concerns, is to simply cancel all fall post-season events and associated costs.

If it's the third scenario, would teams that have aspirations for a national title have players who opt to gray shirt? Say Mount Union or Wheaton or UMHB. If I'm a senior on one of those teams, I might not want to burn my last year of eligibility on a season where my team can't win a title.

Hazzben -- these are great questions. It's exactly the sort of conundrum that led Indianapolis to shut down the spring 2020 sports season in March, rather than wait for conferences to make decisions. I suspect there will indeed be entire conferences that don't play sports in the fall in Division III, and that news may start to come soon.

[formerd3db]

So it looks like some states are making the decision to go online, thereby canceling fall sports in 2020 (e.g. California) and others are saying they are confident they'll be on campus (e.g. Wisconsin).

Way to early hypotheticals. Also, this is just me thinking outloud. I'm not advocating for what any state/school should or shouldn't be doing in terms of fall classes, sports, etc.

Scenario 1: Most of the country decides to have classes on campus and fall sports. Some regions/states do not. If there was a post-season, how would it be held if a certain number Pool A conferences didn't play? Do their bids become Pool C? Assumption: There would still be a full field, just filled with extra Pool C. Although we'd see an understandably penny pinched, highly regionalized bracket.

Scenario 2: Or what if in, say the NWC, half the conference decides not to play and a school like Linfield only has a 6 game season with only 3 conference games? Assumption: The league would keep it's bid and be in the field.

Scenario 3: The regular season is played, but due to COVID concerns the post-season is canceled. It's also a way for the NCAA to save money (though they don't admit this is part of their rationale). Strangely, the non-NCAA run FBS still finds a way to have the CFP and there are still bowl games. Assumption: I think this is actually maybe the most likely scenario. At the end of the day, the NCAA needs to save some serious money, and one easy way to do that, with the cover of safety concerns, is to simply cancel all fall post-season events and associated costs.

If it's the third scenario, would teams that have aspirations for a national title have players who opt to gray shirt? Say Mount Union or Wheaton or UMHB. If I'm a senior on one of those teams, I might not want to burn my last year of eligibility on a season where my team can't win a title.

Hazzben -- these are great questions. It's exactly the sort of conundrum that led Indianapolis to shut down the spring 2020 sports season in March, rather than wait for conferences to make decisions. I suspect there will indeed be entire conferences that don't play sports in the fall in Division III, and that news may start to come soon.

Pat and hazzben:

Thanks for a great a great discussion, something we've all been playing back and forth in our minds. As you mention Pat, this is a perplexing situation and I believe it will be the scenario you outlined for DIII. With no post-season playoffs, it will simply be like it was prior to the early 1970s when there was no national championship system regardless of how many teams/conferences end up choosing to play.

Our MIAA just had a huge virtual conference with the commissioner, ADs, HCs, Head Athletic Trainers and other administrators. I will try to find out what was decided as far as an initial proposal and let you know.

I agree that a decision will have to be made soon, certainly before the first of July. One last question...Pat, do you think the NCAA would ever mandate no one could play this season at all (I'm referring to DIII and DII only)?