FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[art76]

The Hawks played a good game against defending Premiers Richmond (after getting thrashed last week by Geelong).  Highlights are back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyC_BuOE51I

Getting the first score, and then falling behind 33 to 1, is not how you win a game - oof.

[AO]

There is a bit of explanation about what is happening during the four years in terms of policies and audits they undergo to make sure all the new requirements of DI are being put into place, but this was the most interesting bit:
Basically, the only restrictions on UST will be post-season competition and DI distribution gravy, which they don't get now anyways.  So they can play full Summit schedules day one after their pre-classification year is finished, which the NCAA will grant a waiver on anyways.

So, UST will be neither D3 or D1 officially  until the 2025-2026 school year? They will be playing independent schedules of Summit League/Pioneer League schools with no chance of conference or NCAA titles? What, if anything, does that do to recruiting?

They'll immediately start playing the normal Summit/Pioneer regular season schedules, they just won't be eligible for the the postseason for 4 years.  That first D1 recruiting class that won't ever be eligible for a championship unless they redshirt is maybe a little more challenging, but it's also going to be exciting to be a part of that first year so I think they'll do fine.

[sjusection105]

They'll immediately start playing the normal Summit/Pioneer regular season schedules, they just won't be eligible for the the postseason for 4 years.  That first D1 recruiting class that won't ever be eligible for a championship unless they redshirt is maybe a little more challenging, but it's also going to be exciting to be a part of that first year so I think they'll do fine.

Is this a similar path/story that NDSU & SDSU went through?

[formerd3db]

AO:

Has there been any further information as to the Pioneer League being willing to take in St. Thomas and/or the latter approaching the league? 

[AO]

AO:

Has there been any further information as to the Pioneer League being willing to take in St. Thomas and/or the latter approaching the league? 

nothing official yet 

They'll immediately start playing the normal Summit/Pioneer regular season schedules, they just won't be eligible for the the postseason for 4 years.  That first D1 recruiting class that won't ever be eligible for a championship unless they redshirt is maybe a little more challenging, but it's also going to be exciting to be a part of that first year so I think they'll do fine.

Is this a similar path/story that NDSU & SDSU went through?

Same path.  The Bison certainly had some great teams during those first 4 years.  They went 20-2 during their last 2 ineligible years in 06-07.  Then they had to reload a bit before making the playoffs for the first time in 2010.

[miac952]

A question I've been pondering now that the path is less murky. What does UST do with promising freshman, or any potential D1 talents on their rosters this year? Because all the sudden they are entering a Division where redshirts are honored.

For the transition time it will be a tough sell to recruits, but the reality is UST wasn't going to be qualifying for post season tournaments in the first few years anyways. It might hurt the supremely skilled individual swimmer or track athlete that qualifies, but team sports won't be winning conference tournaments right away.

Augustana is really hosed in all of this. It sounds like SDSU and USD were adamant against another D1 school in their footprint that they had to compete with for donors, sponsors, and fans. On a smaller scale that is what makes St Scholastica a nice fit for the MIAC. It's a new market per se.

[ChicagoTommie]

It's sad to see the Tommies leave the MIAC  it will be strange...Do they have a board like ours? it would be interesting to jump on and listen to what the fans think.
It's just starting to hit me...It's hard to believe that our upcoming schedule will be the last time that we will play against our opponents in the MIAC. Well hello Pioneer League or Missouri
UST football going Division 1! looks like we will be in the Pioneer Football League for football...Crazy Division 3 straight to Division 1!!!!!... GO TOMMIES....JOHNNIES STILL SUCK!!!!!!

[GoldandBlueBU]

A question I've been pondering now that the path is less murky. What does UST do with promising freshman, or any potential D1 talents on their rosters this year? Because all the sudden they are entering a Division where redshirts are honored.

For the transition time it will be a tough sell to recruits, but the reality is UST wasn't going to be qualifying for post season tournaments in the first few years anyways. It might hurt the supremely skilled individual swimmer or track athlete that qualifies, but team sports won't be winning conference tournaments right away.

Augustana is really hosed in all of this. It sounds like SDSU and USD were adamant against another D1 school in their footprint that they had to compete with for donors, sponsors, and fans. On a smaller scale that is what makes St Scholastica a nice fit for the MIAC. It's a new market per se.

I was thinking the same about recruiting for UST...what caliber of athletes will they get for the next couple of years when they aren't D1, and aren't offering athletic scholarships, but will likely have the opportunity to be pounded by true D1 athletes on a regular basis?  Once they're within a couple of years, I think they'll be able to sell the transition plan, but they're going to be in no-man's land for a bit in terms of appealing to athletes.

Longer term, I'm excited to see what they can do in basketball...I think there's some real opportunity to scoop up players from the metro who maybe aren't high level D1, but can play D1, and don't want to go to the Dakotas.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, congratulations to St. Thomas.

The one aspect of the NCAA press release that I had to laugh at was the last provision that stipulated they (St. Thomas and any DIII institution that would enter the transition process to DI in the future) would have to write and demonstrate policies that showed commitment to academic integrity, diversity and student well being! Is the NCAA committee that stupid? You've got to be kidding me! DIII schools already have that, so who are those NCAA committee/policy members trying to fool?! 🙄🙂

It's a pro forma hoop through which St. Thomas must jump so as to feed the NCAA's D1 propaganda machine. While it is an inadvertent snub to D3 in general (and to St. Thomas and the MIAC to some degree as well), I don't think that that's the intention behind this requirement, and I don't think it's how it will be received by the readers of the press release. The general public, and America's sports fandom in particular, knows very little about D3, aside from the fact that D3 consists of small schools that for the most part have little or no name recognition. Therefore, I question whether most Americans have an opinion formed about the "commitment to academic integrity, diversity, and student well-being" of D3 schools in comparison to D1 schools. If anything, they may assume that D3 schools are less corrupt, because rule-breaking and ignoring, covering up, or even fomenting lawless behavior for the sake of winning games and making money have tarnished the image of so many D1 schools over the past several decades ... which brings us to the propaganda aspect of that press release.

[formerd3db]

Yes, congratulations to St. Thomas.

The one aspect of the NCAA press release that I had to laugh at was the last provision that stipulated they (St. Thomas and any DIII institution that would enter the transition process to DI in the future) would have to write and demonstrate policies that showed commitment to academic integrity, diversity and student well being! Is the NCAA committee that stupid? You've got to be kidding me! DIII schools already have that, so who are those NCAA committee/policy members trying to fool?! 🙄🙂

It's a pro forma hoop through which St. Thomas must jump so as to feed the NCAA's D1 propaganda machine. While it is an inadvertent snub to D3 in general (and to St. Thomas and the MIAC to some degree as well), I don't think that that's the intention behind this requirement, and I don't think it's how it will be received by the readers of the press release. The general public, and America's sports fandom in particular, knows very little about D3, aside from the fact that D3 consists of small schools that for the most part have little or no name recognition. Therefore, I question whether most Americans have an opinion formed about the "commitment to academic integrity, diversity, and student well-being" of D3 schools in comparison to D1 schools. If anything, they may assume that D3 schools are less corrupt, because rule-breaking and ignoring, covering up, or even fomenting lawless behavior for the sake of winning games and making money have tarnished the image of so many D1 schools over the past several decades ... which brings us to the propaganda aspect of that press release.

Makes sense and highly likely, Gregory.  As a DIII'er though, I still take that portion of the statement as a "slap in the face" whether it was inadvertent or not, propaganda or not!  But that's just me.  Some people will also view that portion of the statement as one of those CYAs.   Anyway, thanks for your input/assessment of the reasoning for that. 

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

Yes, congratulations to St. Thomas.

The one aspect of the NCAA press release that I had to laugh at was the last provision that stipulated they (St. Thomas and any DIII institution that would enter the transition process to DI in the future) would have to write and demonstrate policies that showed commitment to academic integrity, diversity and student well being! Is the NCAA committee that stupid? You've got to be kidding me! DIII schools already have that, so who are those NCAA committee/policy members trying to fool?! 🙄🙂

It's a pro forma hoop through which St. Thomas must jump so as to feed the NCAA's D1 propaganda machine. While it is an inadvertent snub to D3 in general (and to St. Thomas and the MIAC to some degree as well), I don't think that that's the intention behind this requirement, and I don't think it's how it will be received by the readers of the press release. The general public, and America's sports fandom in particular, knows very little about D3, aside from the fact that D3 consists of small schools that for the most part have little or no name recognition. Therefore, I question whether most Americans have an opinion formed about the "commitment to academic integrity, diversity, and student well-being" of D3 schools in comparison to D1 schools. If anything, they may assume that D3 schools are less corrupt, because rule-breaking and ignoring, covering up, or even fomenting lawless behavior for the sake of winning games and making money have tarnished the image of so many D1 schools over the past several decades ... which brings us to the propaganda aspect of that press release.

As I see it, the NCAA's decision last night was basically saying "we approve the move BUT we need to save face. We need to look like we're in charge an not being pushed around by member schools." Nothing in their list of "steps" is new or not already either done by UST or in process. If anything, the  "commitment to academic integrity, diversity, and student well-being"  at UST & D3 schools is probably higher than at D2 or D1.

I will miss D3 but am excited about  the future for UST!

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

Recruiting for UST will be a challenge in the first few years of the transition. For all sports but football, there are plenty of JuCo guys looking for a scholarship for year 3 and 4 of eligibility that will consider UST, whereas now they do not look at a D3 option. This is in addition to the usual pool of high school grads. JuCo players will be recruited for football as well, and with a D1 brand and a much larger recruiting budget, the recruiting scope will be expanded nationally, not just primarily the Upper Midwest.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Recruiting for UST will be a challenge in the first few years of the transition. For all sports but football, there are plenty of JuCo guys looking for a scholarship for year 3 and 4 of eligibility that will consider UST, whereas now they do not look at a D3 option. This is in addition to the usual pool of high school grads. JuCo players will be recruited for football as well, and with a D1 brand and a much larger recruiting budget, the recruiting scope will be expanded nationally, not just primarily the Upper Midwest.

I don't doubt that UST will recruit well long term...just wondering if it will be exceptionally bad for the next couple of years because of the time to be spent in purgatory, or if the school itself will be enough of a draw that they still get good athletes who are willing to forego championship / playoff opportunities that were the norm for the UST experience in the MIAC.

[OzJohnnie]

The Hawks played a good game against defending Premiers Richmond (after getting thrashed last week by Geelong).  Highlights are back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyC_BuOE51I

Getting the first score, and then falling behind 33 to 1, is not how you win a game - oof.

Yeah, a three-month break with complete isolation for over two months of that has pretty much ruined the season. We're back to pre-season intra-club scratch game fitness. It will be another two or three rounds until players develop the extreme cardio fitness they need to run out a game. Plus running patterns and plays have hardly been practiced for three months. So we won't have great quality until the second half of the season.  But at least it's football!

Richmond run a high-energy manic style of football and I think they really suffer an empty stadium. Without the feral Tiger Army there screaming like crazed highlanders, I think the Tiger players have a hard time sustaining the energy needed for their swarming brand of footy.  The Hawks, on the other hand, has lay very structured footy (which you can really see on the distant wide angle shots or at the ground) so a game under these conditions is little different than practice, only with hard tackling.  Hawks and the teams that play more structured ball will have a better go in the empty stadiums, I feel.

[formerd3db]

Recruiting for UST will be a challenge in the first few years of the transition. For all sports but football, there are plenty of JuCo guys looking for a scholarship for year 3 and 4 of eligibility that will consider UST, whereas now they do not look at a D3 option. This is in addition to the usual pool of high school grads. JuCo players will be recruited for football as well, and with a D1 brand and a much larger recruiting budget, the recruiting scope will be expanded nationally, not just primarily the Upper Midwest.

I don't doubt that UST will recruit well long term...just wondering if it will be exceptionally bad for the next couple of years because of the time to be spent in purgatory, or if the school itself will be enough of a draw that they still get good athletes who are willing to forego championship / playoff opportunities that were the norm for the UST experience in the MIAC.

Well, there were a lot of players at Penn State who did that knowing they would forgo the same, although a difference here is that St. Thomas football players will not be on athletic scholarship in the Pioneer League if that is the route.  How much would financial aid via academic and other sources (community scholarships, special endowed scholarships, from churches, etc.) play into that for football recruiting do you think?