FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[SagatagSam]

Yeah, those Tommie/Johnnie games at neutral sites were terrible.

Cherry pick much?

Johnnie-Tommie was the greatest D3 rivalry in the country. It managed to rise to levels beyond many of our wildest expectations, levels which many D1 athletic directors would kill for. Most D1 programs scarcely get a mention on ESPN College GameDay. Yet, the GameDay guys picked the game every year from about 2015 onward.

I'm not saying I am forever opposed to neutral sites. I'm just saying let the dust settle for a while.

And yet, athletic directors/coaches from both teams have apparently decided to throw it all away and never play again.

Saint John's can't control the delusions of grandeur of the folks on the corner of Cretin and Summit.

[jamtod]

Last bit on neutral site MIAC Championship from me--

I think we could watch some objective metrics over the first 5-8 years and see how the game performs, regardless of the schools that play for the championship. I think we need to see at least 8,000 to 10,000 consistently before moving the game, and that's no easy feat for mid-November.

I not certain you'd get much of an attendance bump from the metro if you're hosting that game at outdoor TCO or outdoor Allianz.

And, I think we can forget U.S. Bank Stadium as a possibility because MSHSL owns the facility for the Prep Bowl during that part of November.

There are two (at least) aims from a "neutral" site game:
Allow for a bigger venue (or in some cases, close to a rich recruiting area eg Notre Dame's shamrock series) or
Provide a true neutral environment for something like a championship game.

Regardless of attendance expectations, I think the second part would be the goal here.

I'll also note, especially with the hindsight that it was the final one, watching the Johnnie fans all around me celebrating at the end of the Allianz game did suck. That image will be burned into my brain forever and ever. Maybe better than seeing the same thing at O'Shag for the final time though.

[OzJohnnie]

I'll also note, especially with the hindsight that it was the final one, watching the Johnnie fans all around me celebrating at the end of the Allianz game did suck. That image will be burned into my brain forever and ever. Maybe better than seeing the same thing at O'Shag for the final time though.

Well, you never know where the winds will blow, especially as the ramifications of a professionalised NCAA work themselves out over the next 10 years.  One day when we're 57s ourselves we may be watching the Johnnies beating the Tommies again to a rapturous chorus of red and white (and pastel blue...).

[Johns Knees]

Last bit on neutral site MIAC Championship from me--

I think we could watch some objective metrics over the first 5-8 years and see how the game performs, regardless of the schools that play for the championship. I think we need to see at least 8,000 to 10,000 in attendance consistently before moving the game, and that's no easy feat for mid-November.

I'm not certain you'd get much of an attendance bump from the metro if you're hosting that game at outdoor TCO or outdoor Allianz.

And, I think we can forget U.S. Bank Stadium as a possibility because MSHSL owns the facility for the Prep Bowl during that part of November.

So you're saying you need 8 to 10k at a school site for the title game before moving it to a neutral site?

I may not be following your argument here, but that seems like a lot for a Nov game outdoors, especially if it's in Moorhead. Even moreso if SJU isn't involved.

So you're saying if it's less than that, they shouldn't move it? So your argument is that low attendance is the reason to keep it at school sites?

Like someone else said, for me it's more about being a neutral site because an auto bid is on the line and they're basically randomly assigning home field. If they had some tiebreakers - like head to head - to determine home field, I'd take that. SJU could travel to Bethel this year. So that earlier win means very little.

My secondary argument is you'd likely draw more at a neutral site. I think students would still show up and there's a ton of alums in the Twin Cities even if they don't show. Heck, you may get more students since a lot of them are from the Twin Cities.

Or, rotate neutral sites. SCSU could host

[SagatagSam]

So you're saying you need 8 to 10k at a school site for the title game before moving it to a neutral site?

Ok, Cathy Newman, there is a financial viability component to this whole thing. The reason Johnnie-Tommie could go to places like Target Field and Allianz Field is because it was going to sell tickets—lots of them. The conference can't be going in the red on this. My guesstimate—and believe me, it's very much a guesstimate—is that it's going to take consistent crowds in excess of 8k to put the operation solidly in the black. That way, in the event of an off year where Saint Scholastica is playing Carleton (nothing personal, guys) for the conference championship and no one shows up the conference isn't pulling cash out of a general operating fund to cover expenses.

[SagatagSam]

One day when we're 57s ourselves we may be watching the Johnnies beating the Tommies again to a rapturous chorus of red and white (and pastel blue...).

I think we need to come to a consensus on what the official color of blue the Johnnies wear. So far I've heard:

Baby blue
Light blue
Powder blue
Pastel blue
Sky blue
Marian blue

Could we call it Johnnie Blue? Maybe that would conflict too much with Johnnie Red. My next vote would be for Marian blue, because that was the official color of blue until the late 50s.

[mac77]

One day when we're 57s ourselves we may be watching the Johnnies beating the Tommies again to a rapturous chorus of red and white (and pastel blue...).

I think we need to come to a consensus on what the official color of blue the Johnnies wear. So far I've heard:

Baby blue
Light blue
Powder blue
Pastel blue
Sky blue
Marian blue

Could we call it Johnnie Blue? Maybe that would conflict too much with Johnnie Red. My next vote would be for Marian blue, because that was the official color of blue until the late 50s.

AD Alpers likes "Johnnie Blue".  Marian Blue would be the traditional pick.
I prefer "Sagatagan Blue"!!!
Please stop with "Baby", "Powder", "Light", "Pastel"... all are much too weak!!!!

[hazzben]

My secondary argument is you'd likely draw more at a neutral site. I think students would still show up and there's a ton of alums in the Twin Cities even if they don't show. Heck, you may get more students since a lot of them are from the Twin Cities.

I disagree that neutral site will draw more. The outliers are Tommie/Johnnie games, these were marketed for years ahead of time, and involved a historic rivalry. They were alumni events where very casual fans showed up to hang with classmates, etc.

The MIAC Championship game will be nothing approximating that environment or interest level. I don't doubt that 7k+ fans is possible. But I think if you move it off campus, attendance will suffer. Indoors at the Bank would help attendance, but now you have less than 20% capacity. That kills the vibe. We had some strong crowds for MIAC Dome games, and it felt like no one was there, because the venue swallowed up the good turn out.

[jamtod]

My secondary argument is you'd likely draw more at a neutral site. I think students would still show up and there's a ton of alums in the Twin Cities even if they don't show. Heck, you may get more students since a lot of them are from the Twin Cities.

I disagree that neutral site will draw more. The outliers are Tommie/Johnnie games, these were marketed for years ahead of time, and involved a historic rivalry. They were alumni events where very casual fans showed up to hang with classmates, etc.

Agree 100%. The Tommie Johnnie games at other venues made sense because the demand already far outpaced the ability of campus to handle it (stadium capacity, parking, etc). That plus the novelty (in some cases, even Bethel grads and their kids attended! Unfathomable!) is a different scenario than a proposed neutral site championship game.

That said, St John's got to host Bethel for the regular season matchup. If St John's loses because they have to play AT Bethel for the championship game, I'm not going to feel too bad for them. It's higher stakes with the auto-bid on the line, but I don't think there's any chance an otherwise undefeated St John's with a win over Bethel doesn't get in as Pool C.

[SagatagSam]

One day when we're 57s ourselves we may be watching the Johnnies beating the Tommies again to a rapturous chorus of red and white (and pastel blue...).

I think we need to come to a consensus on what the official color of blue the Johnnies wear. So far I've heard:

Baby blue
Light blue
Powder blue
Pastel blue
Sky blue
Marian blue

Could we call it Johnnie Blue? Maybe that would conflict too much with Johnnie Red. My next vote would be for Marian blue, because that was the official color of blue until the late 50s.

AD Alpers likes "Johnnie Blue".  Marian Blue would be the traditional pick.
I prefer "Sagatagan Blue"!!!
Please stop with "Baby", "Powder", "Light", "Pastel"... all are much too weak!!!!

oooOOOOOoooh! I like it! And this is coming from somebody who thought that I would never budge from being a champion for Marian Blue (just because there is tradition behind it).

Somebody call AD Alpers, Ryan Klinkner, and the whole gang and let 'em know that Sagatagan Blue is the new name!

[DuffMan]

I'm excited to get my throwback, Sagatagan Blue, replica jersey. 

[SagatagSam]

I'm excited to get my throwback, Sagatagan Blue, replica jersey. 

Throw in a plug for BIG Athletics on that one. I want one, but I don't need one. Therefore, I will have to admire Duff's from afar.

[DuffMan]

I want one, but I don't need one.

I don't need one, but the want overpowered me. 

[SagatagSam]

All we need to do is get VOJ, Brian Backes, Charlie Carr, and Mike Carr to start calling it Sagatagan Blue on the broadcasts to seal the deal.

[hazzben]

(in some cases, even Bethel grads and their kids attended! Unfathomable!)

Shhhhhh, that was supposed to be our little secret