FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[57Johnnie]

Gas fireplace for a while in the morning for us - so far.

We are way past the M&M years. 

[bman]

Down here in OBX its quite pleasant...highs of 75 each day...light breeze, nice evening temps...great fishing...
The thought of using a furnace is unsettling...

that is all...carry on...

[miac952]

The biggest hurdle to playing scholarship FCS football will be actually landing an invite from the MVFC. It's a bit of a catch 22 IMO. Lets say UST becomes the top dog in the PFL and is closing the gap with scholarship FCS programs. That looks like a program that could compete in the Valley ... and that's exactly why the teams that make up the Valley (and recruit MN) wouldn't want to see an ascendant UST in the conference.

That is true. The new market presents an opportunity for them however. This is why Augustana was shunned at the 11th hour. If there is $$ to be made by the conference they will be invited in.

I think the bigger challenge would be the upheaval it would cause to the athletic department. You are talking about a major stadium upgrade, dropping at least 1 more mens sport and adding a womens sport. All that to be Title 9 compliant and meet the FCS stadium standards.

I can't seem to understand all the hand wringing about facility upgrades and money. Look at the names on the buildings and the board of trustees. The money will come. Think joint ventures and "naming rights".

Facilities...yes. Rich people like putting their names on things, and lord knows UST has a nice group to work with on that front. Although one blew a load of $$ on the Padres payroll this year and didn't even get to see them play a playoff game 

The bigger issue is Title 9 compliance and re - jiggering the athletic department if football goes to scholarships. I don't think UST will be immune to the problems many smaller D1 athletic departments are facing. Something will have to give when they go all in on football. Georgetown, VIllanova, Holy Cross, Lehigh arent sponsoring the number of sports UST is. And that patriot league is only doing 15 football schollies and many of them have big ticket revenue sports like basketball feeding the $$ trough.

[miac952]

I imagine the optics wouldn't look that great either for a university to be pouring 8, probably 9, figures into their athletics department (football) for vanity.

Schools have been pouring money into athletics vanity projects for years. The American public or those institutions caring about the optics is long since past.

High schools do it in Texas while their standardized testing scores plummet 

[miac952]

I am genuinely interested to see who lands in the 3rd spot in the MIAC at the end of the year. Gustavus and Auggie look to be front runners. It could add huge momentum for recruiting down the road. I liked the Augsburg hire when it happened. It is not easy to accomplish what he did at Osseo. You're spending half your time just trying not to lose kids inter district to Maple Grove.

[hazzben]

I am genuinely interested to see who lands in the 3rd spot in the MIAC at the end of the year. Gustavus and Auggie look to be front runners. It could add huge momentum for recruiting down the road. I liked the Augsburg hire when it happened. It is not easy to accomplish what he did at Osseo. You're spending half your time just trying not to lose kids inter district to Maple Grove.

It'll be an interesting finish. I think 4-4 is probably the most likely MIAC record for Augsburg if they face GAC in the final week though.

[Pat Coleman]

I imagine the optics wouldn't look that great either for a university to be pouring 8, probably 9, figures into their athletics department (football) for vanity.

Schools have been pouring money into athletics vanity projects for years. The American public or those institutions caring about the optics is long since past.

High schools do it in Texas while their standardized testing scores plummet 

Fun fact: Every money that they spend in Texas on athletics in high schools they are also required to match in money for music and the arts.

[Retired Old Rat]

I imagine the optics wouldn't look that great either for a university to be pouring 8, probably 9, figures into their athletics department (football) for vanity.

Schools have been pouring money into athletics vanity projects for years. The American public or those institutions caring about the optics is long since past.

High schools do it in Texas while their standardized testing scores plummet 

Fun fact: Every money that they spend in Texas on athletics in high schools they are also required to match in money for music and the arts.

Does that include facilities?  If so, there must be some really nice band rooms in TX.

[hazzben]

I imagine the optics wouldn't look that great either for a university to be pouring 8, probably 9, figures into their athletics department (football) for vanity.

Schools have been pouring money into athletics vanity projects for years. The American public or those institutions caring about the optics is long since past.

High schools do it in Texas while their standardized testing scores plummet 

Fun fact: Every money that they spend in Texas on athletics in high schools they are also required to match in money for music and the arts.

Does that include facilities?  If so, there must be some really nice band rooms in TX.

I'm guessing there is a difference between money from the district and money from booster clubs.

[faunch]

The biggest hurdle to playing scholarship FCS football will be actually landing an invite from the MVFC. It's a bit of a catch 22 IMO. Lets say UST becomes the top dog in the PFL and is closing the gap with scholarship FCS programs. That looks like a program that could compete in the Valley ... and that's exactly why the teams that make up the Valley (and recruit MN) wouldn't want to see an ascendant UST in the conference.

That is true. The new market presents an opportunity for them however. This is why Augustana was shunned at the 11th hour. If there is $$ to be made by the conference they will be invited in.

I think the bigger challenge would be the upheaval it would cause to the athletic department. You are talking about a major stadium upgrade, dropping at least 1 more mens sport and adding a womens sport. All that to be Title 9 compliant and meet the FCS stadium standards.

I can't seem to understand all the hand wringing about facility upgrades and money. Look at the names on the buildings and the board of trustees. The money will come. Think joint ventures and "naming rights".

It's certainly doable, but it has its challenges and means prioritizing certain things over others and more importantly, making it work with the limited campus footprint (or off campus facilities, absent just buying and bulldozing more of the residential neighborhood)

Living in the shadow of U$T i have heard so many rumors about expansion and stadium/arena plans and frankly i don't see how any of the work.

Rumor #1: Buy and bull doze St Kate to build a volleyball/basketball/hockey arena. That land would be so freaking expensive and then the tear down cost. Let's not forget the neighbors that will absolutely lose their ****.

Rumor #2: Buy Town and Country Golf course for the same purpose as number 1. The biggest pro in this scenario is that it's adjacent to I-94. Once again the price tag would be steep...also I've never been on the course but it's very hilly...lots of earth to move.

Rumor #3: Literally buy up two to four blocks of homes and level them. Keep in mind that most homes start i the half million to $800k range. Also that's a lot of friggin' homes to buy up....residents are going to want top $$$ and the other neighbors won't be terribly happy.

I know I'm a bitter Johnnie but I don't see anywhere that U$T could build...maybe buy and renovate the coliseum at the state fairgrounds or if Hamline goes under but it and renovate the Hutton Arena?

[jamtod]

The biggest hurdle to playing scholarship FCS football will be actually landing an invite from the MVFC. It's a bit of a catch 22 IMO. Lets say UST becomes the top dog in the PFL and is closing the gap with scholarship FCS programs. That looks like a program that could compete in the Valley ... and that's exactly why the teams that make up the Valley (and recruit MN) wouldn't want to see an ascendant UST in the conference.

That is true. The new market presents an opportunity for them however. This is why Augustana was shunned at the 11th hour. If there is $$ to be made by the conference they will be invited in.

I think the bigger challenge would be the upheaval it would cause to the athletic department. You are talking about a major stadium upgrade, dropping at least 1 more mens sport and adding a womens sport. All that to be Title 9 compliant and meet the FCS stadium standards.

I can't seem to understand all the hand wringing about facility upgrades and money. Look at the names on the buildings and the board of trustees. The money will come. Think joint ventures and "naming rights".

It's certainly doable, but it has its challenges and means prioritizing certain things over others and more importantly, making it work with the limited campus footprint (or off campus facilities, absent just buying and bulldozing more of the residential neighborhood)

Living in the shadow of U$T i have heard so many rumors about expansion and stadium/arena plans and frankly i don't see how any of the work.

Rumor #1: Buy and bull doze St Kate to build a volleyball/basketball/hockey arena. That land would be so freaking expensive and then the tear down cost. Let's not forget the neighbors that will absolutely lose their ****.

Rumor #2: Buy Town and Country Golf course for the same purpose as number 1. The biggest pro in this scenario is that it's adjacent to I-94. Once again the price tag would be steep...also I've never been on the course but it's very hilly...lots of earth to move.

Rumor #3: Literally buy up two to four blocks of homes and level them. Keep in mind that most homes start i the half million to $800k range. Also that's a lot of friggin' homes to buy up....residents are going to want top $$$ and the other neighbors won't be terribly happy.

I know I'm a bitter Johnnie but I don't see anywhere that U$T could build...maybe buy and renovate the coliseum at the state fairgrounds or if Hamline goes under but it and renovate the Hutton Arena?

Is #1 actually a thing outside of my joking day dreams about it?

[Pat Coleman]

I imagine the optics wouldn't look that great either for a university to be pouring 8, probably 9, figures into their athletics department (football) for vanity.

Schools have been pouring money into athletics vanity projects for years. The American public or those institutions caring about the optics is long since past.

High schools do it in Texas while their standardized testing scores plummet 

Fun fact: Every money that they spend in Texas on athletics in high schools they are also required to match in money for music and the arts.

Does that include facilities?  If so, there must be some really nice band rooms in TX.

It does and auditoriums and theaters and performance spaces and such.

[jknezek]

I imagine the optics wouldn't look that great either for a university to be pouring 8, probably 9, figures into their athletics department (football) for vanity.

Schools have been pouring money into athletics vanity projects for years. The American public or those institutions caring about the optics is long since past.

High schools do it in Texas while their standardized testing scores plummet 

Fun fact: Every money that they spend in Texas on athletics in high schools they are also required to match in money for music and the arts.

Does that include facilities?  If so, there must be some really nice band rooms in TX.

It does and auditoriums and theaters and performance spaces and such.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those price tags include the roll-along programs. I'm pretty sure the "$72 million stadium" was actually about $30 million (yes, still completely ridiculous), and then the road improvements, auditoriums, school laptop programs and all the rest for the district was the other $42 million. So they couldn't have a $30 million stadium without spending at least $30 million more, so it's called a $72 million stadium but that's not the actual cost of just the stadium. It wasn't $144 million spent all in to get a $72 million stadium.

I believe that's how these things have been done until the last couple years. Lately Texas has started doing line item municipal bond issuance, I think in the last year or two, so things will look a little different for the next one of these mega projects they try and fund. Theoretically the academic parts could be passed and the stadium rejected, but not vice versa. And I'm assuming the vote will be structured as an all or none, even if you can vote on the line items themselves. So if the stadium doesn't pass, the others won't either even if it wins the vote. Politicians can be tricky that way, shockingly.

[OzJohnnie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those price tags include the roll-along programs. I'm pretty sure the "$72 million stadium" was actually about $30 million (yes, still completely ridiculous), and then the road improvements, auditoriums, school laptop programs and all the rest for the district was the other $42 million. So they couldn't have a $30 million stadium without spending at least $30 million more, so it's called a $72 million stadium but that's not the actual cost of just the stadium. It wasn't $144 million spent all in to get a $72 million stadium.

I believe that's how these things have been done until the last couple years. Lately Texas has started doing line item municipal bond issuance, I think in the last year or two, so things will look a little different for the next one of these mega projects they try and fund. Theoretically the academic parts could be passed and the stadium rejected, but not vice versa. And I'm assuming the vote will be structured as an all or none, even if you can vote on the line items themselves. So if the stadium doesn't pass, the others won't either even if it wins the vote. Politicians can be tricky that way, shockingly.

If you're right and they are itemizing funding as you suggest then I would guess it's national discussions like this that pressure them to itemise but it's still the local rate payers who get to vote.  I suspect that without the stadium initiatives that the local rate payers would not be willing to support $40m music halls and whatnot.

Snark aside, you could more accurately say that football is being used to fund a whole range of other programs that have trouble raising those sorts of bucks on their own.  The legislation that required 2:1 funding was put in place for that purpose, after all.  I imagine that before the legislation stadiums still got their cash but music halls were old and dusty.  Now everything is shiny.

Wouldn't it be a perverse result that if the effort to shame local communities for funding nice stadiums that an additional a result is that local communities stop funding a whole swag of non-football activities as well?

[Texas Ole]

I'm guessing there is a difference between money from the district and money from booster clubs.

We have a winner!  I won't post some of the specific incidents, but there are some pretty good ones over the years.

A lot of times schools will include an art facility in with the athletics facility.  Birdville ISD near Fort Worth has the FAAC (Fine Arts/Athletic Complex).  Arts programs are also able to use facilities designed for athletics.  The bands in my district have a scheduled time if needed in the IPFs.  Some are multi-use facilities that host events throughout the year.  There was an infamous art exhibit at a district basketball arena a few years ago.  Also several bands and other arts groups in the DFW area have trucks and trailers moving closer to having dedicated 18-wheelers.  The last high school football game I attended I am pretty sure the band did not play a note, but there were plenty of props running around the field.