FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OzJohnnie]

I think the addition of certain programs definitely created tension.  Augsburg has their Weekend program and other non-traditional programs and UST created a similar program.  Hamline and William Mitchell had to combine law schools after UST created one.  Several schools have had their MBA programs overshadowed by UST.  These schools with smaller endowments often relied on these programs to fund the operating budget.  The WEC/Adult program at Augsburg probably saved the school.  When UST aggressively went after these programs it threatened the schools existence.  That doesn't sit well with Presidents.

What also gets ignored is that UST is unique in the size and scope of its graduate programs.  The MIAC does not allow graduate students to participate in athletics.  That is not a common NCAA practice.  Most conferences allow graduate student participation.  I think St. Thomas' stance on this issue was a major sticking point.  Imagine an star player for 3 years at one MIAC school leaving it to join UST as a graduate student.  That can't sit well with almost all of the schools.

It should be pointed out that, contrary to your post, UST (well, CST back then) has been operating a nights-and-weekends undergrad program since at least the early-1970s, which I am pretty sure predates Augsburg's weekend program. Back then  it was called The New College and was one of the first of its kind in the area.

To assert that Hamline & Wm Mitchell combined solely due to UST's entering into the law school competition is as absurd as to say St Teresa's  closed because UST began admitting women (something with which I'm surprised you didn't try to vilify UST - after all, those hateful Tommie upset the apple cart by allowing females to enroll in 1977). Hamline/Mitchell were poorly promoted and poorly run in the years leading up to their merger and that more than UST's presence in the marketplace was why they both nearly went under.

UST could have chosen to stagnant and remain a quaint, cute little school of 1500-1800 men only, but over the past 45-50 years the administrations of the school have felt they would better serve the educational needs and wants of the Upper Midwest by growing and evolving from a niche school into a larger, more varied university. Doing so also ensured that the school would be able to not only survive but thrive.

Where is your anger and angst over St Kate's allowing guys in its grad programs? Why aren't you upset that SMU opened a branch campus in the Twin Cities?  Whee is your holier-than-thou wrath at Bethel, St.Kate's, Saint Mary's and Augsburg for expanding their graduate program and reclassifying as universities rather than remaining niche colleges?

No one has tried harder than Olaf to replicate UST's athletic successes across the spectrum than St Olaf. No one has flailed and failed as badly as the Oles.  Dropping millions of $ on facilities, importing a slew of former D1 coaches & administrators has garnered a very good run in cross country but mediocrity an all other sports and has seen the once proud Ole baseball program...well, self destruct.

Call me the Devil for agreeing with you but I do.  Kicking UST out of an athletic conference does nothing to address institutional competition outside of that athletic conference.  UST will compete for different athletes and the banks of the MIAC target pond for student-athletes will become a little less crowded with all the benefits in terms of better returns from athletics that may have.

But UST is going to grow and either those students will come from more Minnesota parents getting jiggidy or will come from outstate or will come from the academic pool everyone else is competing for.  Perhaps the student-athlete competition cleared up a little, but the straight student competition, particularly in the Twin Cities, turned up to 11 (where it was going to be regardless).

[SagatagSam]

To assert that Hamline & Wm Mitchell combined solely due to UST's entering into the law school competition is as absurd as to say St Teresa's  closed because UST began admitting women (something with which I'm surprised you didn't try to vilify UST - after all, those hateful Tommie upset the apple cart by allowing females to enroll in 1977). Hamline/Mitchell were poorly promoted and poorly run in the years leading up to their merger and that more than UST's presence in the marketplace was why they both nearly went under.

This is one where Summit and Texas Ole are both right and both wrong. UST resurrecting its law school certainly had an effect on the law school market in Minnesota. It added another regional law school in 2001 to a place that was already oversaturated with law schools. Then came the perfect storm of the law school bubble bursting. Nationwide law school enrollment had peaked in 2010, when 52,404 1Ls enrolled. Since then nationwide enrollment has plummeted to to 38,202 new 1Ls in 2020. William Mitchell was going to need to find a larger university partner to shield it from the violent shifts in the law school market. UST had the cash to weather the storm by itself just fine. I still think William Mitchell and Hamline merge even if UST doesn't re-start the law school in 2001. Now, maybe instead of happening in 2015 it takes a few more years and happens in 2018 or 2019--maybe even longer. But, I think it happens regardless. Most states the size of Minnesota have 2 law schools, and even then there are legal education commentators that will say that's too many.

[Texas Ole]

I have nothing against UST.  I think USTs expansion is great for several MIAC schools that are able to focus solely on undergrad.  That is a benefit to schools like St. Olaf!  The problem for some schools is that it competes with them.  You can get bitter or get better.  Over the past 15 years there was a lot of smoke around UST's dominance and growth as it fit within the MIAC and D3 model.  Sometimes you outgrow your situation.  You can have a really nice pair of shoes, but when you outgrow them you don't cut off your toes.  You go buy new shoes!

I will also be the first to say that St. Olaf has created a mess across the board when it comes athletics in recent years.  We have great facilities, but if you remember the old facilities many of them were condemned.  The Northfield Ice Arena was so dated that visiting teams could not do broadcasts from it.  The only access available to them was a phone jack.  St. Olaf had planned to build an ice arena in the 80s or 90s, but those plans were scrapped and hockey nearly dropped.  Skoglund was a multi-use facility that wasn't good for anything.  As part of the 60m dash runners ran out of the building.  The jumping pit had a wall on the end and side.  When Tostrud was built the plan was build an ice arena in Skoglund or a separate building almost immediately.  It took a few years for that happen.  I am not a huge fan of the new arena layout (prefer stands on a single side for smaller venues), but it is nice to have an organ in it.  That is very St. Olaf.  Please don't get me started about how Um Ya Ya is rarely sung at sporting events when we score or happen to win.  Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!

I will also say that I have been disappointed in decisions with coaching changes at St. Olaf.  My concern is that we are trying to run the athletic department like it is a D1 program always chasing that next great coach.  I loved many of the old coaches.  I still talk with some of them.  I considered some of them mentors and others friends.  You have to remember several of them were alums.  I worry at times if the new coaches have that same passion for the school.

What works for one school won't always work for another school!  Coach Gagliardi's book of nos would not fly in Texas.  I don't think the mega high school football would fly for one bit in most of Minnesota.  Every school is different, and each one needs to find the path that best suits it.  I don't think I've mentioned some of the reasons why the Midwest Conference was appealing to St. Olaf that I have heard.  The biggest argument was that those schools tended to similar minded academic institutions.  Also the associations with them would allow for greater opportunities for academic partnerships.  As a result the thought is we fit in the conference better.  The problem is that St. Olaf is significantly larger than most  of those schools.

I want what is best for St. Olaf.  I will assume everyone wants what is best for their school.  I try not to say anything negative about a person or a school.  I really try to be positive. 

[57Johnnie]

Game Day

GO JOHNNIES!   

[art76]

I just realized that the Hamline at Macalester game starts at 7:00 pm this evening. I'll have to keep an eye on that one...

[jakeMN91]

The St. Cloud Times had an article yesterday about Backes and the upcoming CSS matchup. They confirmed that Syverson broke his fibula and had surgery on it on Tuesday.

Subscription required: https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/2021/10/29/saint-johns-college-football-quarterback-chris-backes-aaron-syverson-against-st-scholastica/6160738001/

[faunch]

I just realized that the Hamline at Macalester game starts at 7:00 pm this evening. I'll have to keep an eye on that one...

Today has to be tough day to find officials...college and high school games all over the place.

[Boys of Fall]

I don't necessarily see it happening, but if the Auggie's can get their passing game going the next couple of weeks the Johnnies could be down at Edor Nelson field championship weekend.

[corn horn]

I don't necessarily see it happening, but if the Auggie's can get their passing game going the next couple of weeks the Johnnies could be down at Edor Nelson field championship weekend.

I think it's fair to say the Auggies have their passing game going...not sure how much more passing game you could ask for. Today's game makes me nervous. Cobber D has had lapses against big passes this season. The history of these teams' meetings, which is ridiculously lopsided in favor of Concordia, needs to be completely ignored by the Cobbers today. They have not been 100% and the offense Augsburg puts on the field targets what has been the Cobbs Achilles heel so far.

[Texas Ole]

I don't necessarily see it happening, but if the Auggie's can get their passing game going the next couple of weeks the Johnnies could be down at Edor Nelson field championship weekend.

I am thinking the game would be moved off campus though the Augsburg schedule has the field available that weekend.  I remember Augsburg moving games at the end of the season off campus to accommodate the dome installation.  Also with the size of the stadium there probably wouldn't be enough seats. 

[Wdavis5]

Can any of you johnnies tell the camera man ZOOM out.

[faunch]

Can any of you johnnies tell the camera man ZOOM out.

I've sent emails...apparently they've not got the message.

[Wdavis5]

Can any of you johnnies tell the camera man ZOOM out.

I've sent emails...apparently they've not got the message.

I think one of my boys got hurt but couldnt see what happened. #6

[57Johnnie]

Can any of you johnnies tell the camera man ZOOM out.

I've sent emails...apparently they've not got the message.

I think one of my boys got hurt but couldnt see what happened. #6

Go to MIAC in game updates board. That is where everybody is.

[carletonknights]

24-9 Gustavus. That was a very bizarre ending, I don't think I've ever seen that before and the announcer wasn't very helpful in explaining it. Oh well, still would've needed to finish the drive then recover the onsides and score again.

The entire offense was out of sync. The Gustavus defense deserves a lot of credit. They were the best defense Carleton has played so far and it felt like Singleton was under constant pressure. However, there were still plenty of missed opportunities. Having a first & goal from the one and ending up kicking a 35 yard field goal, really hurt. Plenty of drops, ball carriers slipping, whiffed blocks, and poor throws to go around that should leave the players feeling like they missed out on a chance for a big win today.

The Carleton defense was good, holding the Gusties to 16 points through 3 quarters despite getting very little help from their O. They did have one sack but I can only recall a handful of plays where they generated much of a pass rush, which was a little concerning.

Last time they played Gustavus (2019) they lost 55-28. Although I'm disappointed right now, if I take a step back I'm very pleased with the progress Journell has made in closing the gap in his first three seasons.