FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sju56321]

I was under the impression that prior year's result would be taken into consideration if both teams finished with the same record. So that if SJU and UWW both were undefeated then UWW would be slotted ahead of SJU based on the prior year's game or result if UWW won. Or, if UWW got to the semi finals and SJU only got to the quarterfinals the year before, that result would be used.

[AO]

Does the rest of the MIAC care about the championship game issues enough with regards to playoffs to scrap it?  A few schools might think that leaving it to one game with a team who knows they are in the playoffs might give them the best shot.  It seems that the only 2 schools really concerned about this issue are SJU and Bethel.  I am sure others have a somewhat vested interest, but it is not a primary concern.  Can SJU and Bethel convince the other schools that this championship game is bad for the conference?  The prudent thing would be to let the championship game play out for a few years to see the overall impact.  I don't think it will be as harsh as people imagine when it comes to the tournament.

My guess is there are at least 3 schools that have no desire to eliminate the current format.  I think St. Olaf is probably indifferent due to Lutheran rivalries.

Word I've heard is that the coaches and AD's are not a fan, and not just at Bethel and SJU. Any team that has post-season aspirations would rather see it done another way. GAC, Cobbers, St. Olaf and Augsburg all care about that, even if they aren't close to making it matter right now. Those teams are more likely to make a run at 9-1 than they are at beating SJU most years. So which is the easiest route to the playoffs? The new way where they either have to beat SJU for the division or in the MIAC Champ Game, or the old format where they have a shot at Pool C with a 1 loss season, or a 3 way tie breaker going their way for the Pool A bid, IMO.

I think we are probably in agreement on the 3 that like the current format.

Isn't there a formula where previous seasons are applied to the tournament selection process or is that just a rumor I heard?

"When all criteria are equal among teams with undefeated records in the primary criteria, the NCAA Division III Football Committee can use a team's performance in the previous championship season as a criterion."  Just used to determine hosts and the secret seeds, not helpful in determining pool C bids as obviously no one will be undefeated.

[Texas Ole]

I've heard from several people that Mac hated UST more than any other school.  It was to the point where at one time certain leaders at Mac would not even speak to UST or allow the school to be mentioned.  I've heard the hatred may be less for SJU and Bethel, but it is still very strong.  I don't know where the relationships are today, but it is something to consider.

[carletonknights]

I've heard from several people that Mac hated UST more than any other school.  It was to the point where at one time certain leaders at Mac would not even speak to UST or allow the school to be mentioned.  I've heard the hatred may be less for SJU and Bethel, but it is still very strong.  I don't know where the relationships are today, but it is something to consider.

I'm skeptical. Not on the UST front, I mean that's just natural. I'm skeptical that Mac has any hard feelings whatsoever towards SJU or Bethel. They're different styles of institutions, there isn't huge overlap in the pool of students they're drawing from. If Mac admissions is similar to Carleton, then there is a cap on the number of students they can even admit from Minnesota which I'm speculating makes up the largest chunk of Bethel and SJU students. So why would there be strong hatred at Mac for SJU and Bethel? Why would their supposed hatred be stronger towards those schools than say... St. Olaf?

[SJU13]

I guess I was also looking toward the next couple of years with SJU getting their series in with UWW and how that may impact things.

How would a committee look at a 9-1 BU team who lost to an 8-2 SJU squad (loss to UWW and BU in regular season) in the championship (or 7/3 if they get pipped in another cross divisional game)? Or an 8-2 SJU squad who beats UWW but loses twice to BU? Factor in the strength of each division.

[SagatagSam]

I've heard from several people that Mac hated UST more than any other school.  It was to the point where at one time certain leaders at Mac would not even speak to UST or allow the school to be mentioned.  I've heard the hatred may be less for SJU and Bethel, but it is still very strong.  I don't know where the relationships are today, but it is something to consider.

I thought I heard about this as a justification for MAC leaving the MIAC in football back in 2001 with a substantial amount of the hatred directed at SJU. The final 13 years MAC and SJU played, SJU outscored MAC 682-66. The two teams tied once in 1986 and the last time MAC beat SJU was when LBJ was president (1968). Only 5 times since 1968 did MAC keep the game to within a touchdown.

[Texas Ole]

I've heard from several people that Mac hated UST more than any other school.  It was to the point where at one time certain leaders at Mac would not even speak to UST or allow the school to be mentioned.  I've heard the hatred may be less for SJU and Bethel, but it is still very strong.  I don't know where the relationships are today, but it is something to consider.

I'm skeptical. Not on the UST front, I mean that's just natural. I'm skeptical that Mac has any hard feelings whatsoever towards SJU or Bethel. They're different styles of institutions, there isn't huge overlap in the pool of students they're drawing from. If Mac admissions is similar to Carleton, then there is a cap on the number of students they can even admit from Minnesota which I'm speculating makes up the largest chunk of Bethel and SJU students. So why would there be strong hatred at Mac for SJU and Bethel? Why would their supposed hatred be stronger towards those schools than say... St. Olaf?

They are very different styles of institutions which from my understanding is the issue.  It is more how the schools operate and overall goals of the institutions.  Does the Mac 'Drink blood' cheer get accepted at Bethel?  How about a countdown to 4:20 on the game clock with several people lighting up?  I did hear through the grapevine that one Mac administrator made some accusations regarding competitive advantages and certain schools.

[DuffMan]

I thought I heard about this as a justification for MAC leaving the MIAC in football back in 2001 with a substantial amount of the hatred directed at SJU. The final 13 years MAC and SJU played, SJU outscored MAC 682-66. The two teams tied once in 1986 and the last time MAC beat SJU was when LBJ was president (1968). Only 5 times since 1968 did MAC keep the game to within a touchdown.

I bumped into a few teammates of mine at halftime of the SJU/CSS game, and that final Mac/SJU game in 2001 was brought up.  Mac was soooo overmatched, and the game was at Mac, so we didn't have that many backups.

[carletonknights]

I've heard from several people that Mac hated UST more than any other school.  It was to the point where at one time certain leaders at Mac would not even speak to UST or allow the school to be mentioned.  I've heard the hatred may be less for SJU and Bethel, but it is still very strong.  I don't know where the relationships are today, but it is something to consider.

I'm skeptical. Not on the UST front, I mean that's just natural. I'm skeptical that Mac has any hard feelings whatsoever towards SJU or Bethel. They're different styles of institutions, there isn't huge overlap in the pool of students they're drawing from. If Mac admissions is similar to Carleton, then there is a cap on the number of students they can even admit from Minnesota which I'm speculating makes up the largest chunk of Bethel and SJU students. So why would there be strong hatred at Mac for SJU and Bethel? Why would their supposed hatred be stronger towards those schools than say... St. Olaf?

Does the Mac 'Drink blood' cheer get accepted at Bethel?  How about a countdown to 4:20 on the game clock with several people lighting up? 

Sure, but that would explain why Bethel and SJU don't want their innocent angels hanging out with those degenerate Scots. Why does that mean Mac hates Bethel and SJU? I never saw the 2001 Mac - SJU game, so I don't know what happened. In my mind, there's a difference between consistently blowing teams out and doing what Caruso did (2pt conversions, onside kicks, fake punts, reverses on KR when the game is already in hand). If it was like the latter, I understand a little bad blood but getting consistently blown out in football seems an incredulous reason to hate the entire administration of a neighboring LAC. Let alone a hatred so strong to be passed on to two subsequent college presidents (assuming this does stem from Mac's football exit).

[wm4]

I agree with you that an MIAC championship game is bad for the league. Not sure what the purpose is. For Power 5 D1 schools there is massive revenue and huge conferences where east plays west so its the only time they face each other.

I think part of the intended purpose was to take an additional beatdown out of the schedule for the lower level teams.

In the old MIAC with UST in the league, in the average year there was a significant gap from the top 3 (SJU, UST, BU) to the 4th and 5th place teams, and then a huge gap to the remaining teams, so those lower tier teams were getting crushed in a pretty ugly manner 3x per year by the top 3.  Now with UST gone, the cellar dwellers only have to play SJU or BU, not both, and obviously not all 3.

Channeling my inner Logan Hansen...something I've tracked over the years...average margin of victory in MIAC conference games:

2013:     19.17
2014:     22.39
2015:     27.00
2016:     28.06
2017:     32.31
2018:     34.33
2019:     32.06
2020:     25.77 (still two more rounds to be played)

Given the matchups of the final week, I'd expect those games to be closer, will be interesting to see.

I also went back and grabbed a random year from quite a while ago, just to get another set of data. 

2007:     22.00 average margin of victory

In terms of "monkey stomps", to borrow a popular phrase, here are number of games with margins of victory at >= 50 points

2007:     2
2013:     2
2014:     3
2015:     5
2016:     4
2017:     7
2018:     10
2019:     7
2021:     5 (2 rounds to be played)

[DuffMan]

A Monkey Stomp is a margin >/= 21.  50 is a Double Money Stomp!

The Js pulled off the rare Triple Monkey Stompout this past weekend!

[hazzben]

The intricacies and varieties of Monkey Stomps^TM are a wonder to behold and ponder

[DuffMan]

So true.  We're forever indebted to the Liberty Leaguers that helped school us in the ways of the Monkey Stomp and provided RPI as a sacrifice. 

[jakeMN91]

A Monkey Stomp is a margin >/= 21.  50 is a Double Money Stomp!

The Js pulled off the rare Triple Monkey Stompout this past weekend!

I knew there was an official guide somewhere in this thread. I tracked it down and found out that SJU actually completed a Bench Triple Monkey Stompout since it was done with a backup quarterback. A very rare occurrence.

[Retired Old Rat]

I am the (self appointed) keeper of the Monkey Stomp^tm rules.  They can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hxwpLdvD6eqQPG_tDAIuCS8PlO9P3SJOTM5HPehmcOU/edit?usp=sharing

or https://www.dropbox.com/s/txfy11p4uf0aw7q/Official%20Monkey%20Stomp%20Rules%20-%20Google%20Docs.pdf?dl=0

Some of the references are out of date since our bromance with RPI ended a long time ago.

57johnnie came up with a new one a couple weeks ago that I will have to dig up and add.