FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[jstoll19]

The way that SJU13 described it was that one player called for the fair catch, and another actually caught the ball...that probably created some confusion?  I don't know how the application of the rule works in that case...can the person who doesn't catch it make a fair catch signal for someone else?  It sounds like the refs accepted the signal, but should they have?  Perhaps that's why they didn't tack on a penalty?

I know we're going way too far in on one play, but I'm always curious about the nuances of rules like this...
[/quote]
I played over at UNW and can give a little insight into this. If any player calls a fair catch, the play should be ruled dead when someone catches the kick. From my experience is someone other than the returner catching the ball calls the fair catch, the refs will just blow the play dead until the returner stops and just spot it where the ball was caught unless it is clear that they were trying to be deceptive in calling the fair catch.

[bleedpurple]

I've got a question for the rules experts here. In the WW/SJU game, after WW scored to start the 2nd half and kicked off, an SJU player signaled for a fair catch and then after catching the kickoff started running and was tackled about 10 yards later. The refs properly spotted the ball at the point where he caught the ball, but shouldn't that have been a penalty for an invalid fair catch since he tried to advance the ball? The WW coach sure thought there should have been a penalty. Is this something different between the pros and college, or different between a punt and kickoff?  I'm not sure why it wasn't an invalid fair catch penalty.

Here's the rule directly from the 2022 NCAA Football Rule Book. Words in brackets are mine for clarity.

No Advance
ARTICLE 2. No [receiving team] player shall carry a caught or recovered ball more than two steps in any direction after any [receiving team] player gives a valid or invalid fair catch signal (A.R. 6-5-2-I-III).
PENALTY—Dead-ball foul, delay of game. Five yards from the succeeding spot [S7 and S21].

Doesn't sound discretionary, but this probably falls in the land of "prosecutorial discretion" for the officials. Is doing 55 mph in a 54 mph zone technically illegal? Yes. Who going to get ticketed for doing so? Almost nobody.

Ten yards seems to be within the realm of "just let it go," much beyond that could get exponentially more dicey.

I can see if he takes a few steps and stops then they would probably let it go. But the only reason it was only 10 yards is because he got tackled, otherwise he probably would have run it back for a td. I would think if someone had to tackle him that would be reason enough to call a penalty since the purpose of the fair catch is to prevent any tackling.  I would like to hear what the ref told the WW coach as the coach was asking why it wasn't a penalty.

I actually did overhear a part of the conversation. The ref explained to Coach Bullis that because the ball was not caught inside the 25 yard line, the fair catch rule did not apply. I think Coach Bullis's point was that the player who raised his hand was inside the 25.  But the ref said the deciding factor is where the ball is caught. I didn't even know that was a factor. I guess deception is ok outside the 25? I looked it up when I found this this thread and what I found seemed to back the ref's interpretation (but my source wasn't the actual NCAA Handbook).

[OzJohnnie]

Ice Bear asks if anyone has heard anything about the status of Roste? (Sounds like a ****ing movie title, Ice loves it: The Status of Roste)

+k, this rant is ****ing hilarious and Ice would have been pissed just the same if he was watching that ****.

Change the words to The Roste Status and it sounds like the sequel to The Eiger Sanction (a great book by Trevanian, by the way, and a highly recommended read).  Someone get a hold of Clint Eastwood and we'll start filming immediately.

[OzJohnnie]

Interesting tidbit I did not know (the game notes are top notch).  This is the 10th meeting between River Falls and SJU.  SJU lead the series 8-1, their only loss coming in the opening contest back in 1937.  SJU is now 34-14 all time vs WIAC opponents.

EDIT: I also missed this important bit my first pass through the notes.

SCOUTING THE FALCONS

UW-River Falls was picked to finish third in WIAC preseason poll released Aug. 23. The Falcons had three All-Region honorees last fall, one of which returned in 2022 (due to graduation): junior offensive lineman Alex Klecker. He was named to the All-WIAC second team, as well as sophomore cornerback Michael Brown. Brown played all 10 games last season and totaled only 11 tackles (10 solo) with two interceptions and six pass breakups. Three other Falcons were All-WIAC honorable mention: junior defensive lineman Drew Hahn, sophomore cornerback Dylan Brown and junior kicker Cade Henry. Hahn collected 23 tackles (11 solo), including 3.5  for a loss and half a sack, while Brown led the team in pass breakups (10) and solo tackles (34), and was second in total tackles (39). Henry made 52 of his 57 PAT's and four field goals, with a long of 33 yards.

FAST-PACED OFFENSE

UW-River Falls averaged 93.1 offensive plays per game in 2021 and totaled 232 over its final two games: 117 plays for 556 yards in a 28-21 loss to UW-Oshkosh and 115 plays for 653 yards in a 48-27 win over Washington (Mo.). The Falcons started the 2022 season right where they left off, amassing 560 yards on 107 plays last weekend at Elmhurst (Ill.).

it looks like UWRF will be keeping the defense on it's toes with quick play and has an experienced pass defense.  Looks to be a challenging match-up for SJU.

[OzJohnnie]

Oh, and Ben Bartch has officially been named the opening day starting LG for Jacksonville.  That's a heck of an achievement.  And UWW's Quinn Meinerz has been named the starting RG for Denver.

[RoyalsFan]

I actually did overhear a part of the conversation. The ref explained to Coach Bullis that because the ball was not caught inside the 25 yard line, the fair catch rule did not apply. I think Coach Bullis's point was that the player who raised his hand was inside the 25.  But the ref said the deciding factor is where the ball is caught. I didn't even know that was a factor. I guess deception is ok outside the 25? I looked it up when I found this this thread and what I found seemed to back the ref's interpretation (but my source wasn't the actual NCAA Handbook).

What does that mean - the fair catch rule doesn't apply? I think he was confused as a fair catch applies anywhere on the field, not just inside the 25 yard line. I think what he meant was that the rule stating a fair catch on the kickoff comes out to the 25 if a fair catch is called inside the 25 yard line. Just because it was caught outside the 25 yard line doesn't mean a fair catch rule doesn't apply.  The rule is pretty clear as it states any player taking more than 2 steps in any direction after any [receiving team] player gives a valid or invalid fair catch signal is a delay of game penalty. So by that definition, another player called a fair catch but the up back ran about 10 yards (a bit more than 2 steps). Should have been a delay of game penalty.

[DuffMan]

I haven't looked at the official rule book, but I found this explanation:

Explaining college football's fair catch rule
In 2018, the NCAA adopted a new rule: collegiate kickoff returners would be allowed to signal for a "fair catch", or an unmoving catch in which the kick returner cannot be tackled. Once the kick returner raises their hand and signals for a fair catch, gunners and tackles must hold off as the returner waits for the ball, catches it and kneels. In order to qualify as a fair catch, the ball must be caught within the return team's 25-yard line. When caught, the fair catch results in a touchback and the offense begins play on the 25-yard line.

[retagent]

Ice Bear asks if anyone has heard anything about the status of Roste? (Sounds like a ****ing movie title, Ice loves it: The Status of Roste)

+k, this rant is ****ing hilarious and Ice would have been pissed just the same if he was watching that ****.

Change the words to The Roste Status and it sounds like the sequel to The Eiger Sanction (a great book by Trevanian, by the way, and a highly recommended read).  Someone get a hold of Clint Eastwood and we'll start filming immediately.

I read The Eiger Sanction too many years ago. Also remember the movie. Good reference OZ.

[bleedpurple]

I haven't looked at the official rule book, but I found this explanation:

Explaining college football's fair catch rule
In 2018, the NCAA adopted a new rule: collegiate kickoff returners would be allowed to signal for a "fair catch", or an unmoving catch in which the kick returner cannot be tackled. Once the kick returner raises their hand and signals for a fair catch, gunners and tackles must hold off as the returner waits for the ball, catches it and kneels. In order to qualify as a fair catch, the ball must be caught within the return team's 25-yard line. When caught, the fair catch results in a touchback and the offense begins play on the 25-yard line.

That's what I saw as well.  I obviously didn't hear every word, those pesky Johnnie fans were pretty loud on Saturday, but I know the ref mentioned the 25 yard line. I will find out tomorrow from Coach exactly what the ref told him and report back. I'm definitely not saying he got it right, but when I looked it up (impatiently and not looking for the actual NCAA Rulebook, I found what Duffman found and thought maybe it was that to which the ref was referring.

[wartknight]

Pretty sure the fair catch is valid anywhere on the field & placed where fielded; exception being inside the 25 placed @ the 25.

[DuffMan]

Good speculation. 

[bleedpurple]

Pretty sure the fair catch is valid anywhere on the field & placed where fielded; exception being inside the 25 placed @ the 25.

100%.  Does that include the infraction we are talking about?  That's what's odd to me. That the ref had an explanation. If the rule was as simple as I thought it was, seems like the ref would have said, "Just a minute, coach", huddled with the other refs, and then implemented the penalty. instead he gave some explanation that I'm almost sure had to do with the 25 yard line. Hopefully, I can get the info and report back.

[SagatagSam]

Pretty sure the fair catch is valid anywhere on the field & placed where fielded; exception being inside the 25 placed @ the 25.

100%.  Does that include the infraction we are talking about?  That's what's odd to me. That the ref had an explanation. If the rule was as simple as I thought it was, seems like the ref would have said, "Just a minute, coach", huddled with the other refs, and then implemented the penalty. instead he gave some explanation that I'm almost sure had to do with the 25 yard line. Hopefully, I can get the info and report back.

I would say that there is no exception to the no advance rule. It is not provided for in the rules as far as I can tell.

Further, such an exception would not make sense--it's a delay of game in between the 25 yard lines but if there is a fair catch inside the 25s then you can advance the ball and there is no delay of game?

[RoyalsFan]

Pretty sure the fair catch is valid anywhere on the field & placed where fielded; exception being inside the 25 placed @ the 25.

100%.  Does that include the infraction we are talking about?  That's what's odd to me. That the ref had an explanation. If the rule was as simple as I thought it was, seems like the ref would have said, "Just a minute, coach", huddled with the other refs, and then implemented the penalty. instead he gave some explanation that I'm almost sure had to do with the 25 yard line. Hopefully, I can get the info and report back.

I would say that there is no exception to the no advance rule. It is not provided for in the rules as far as I can tell.

Further, such an exception would not make sense--it's a delay of game in between the 25 yard lines but if there is a fair catch inside the 25s then you can advance the ball and there is no delay of game?

Exactly, the refs didn't get something right here. If it is only a fair catch inside the 25 yard line (and only on kickoffs, not punts), then why did they bring the ball back to where he caught it? If a fair catch doesn't apply, then they should have spotted the ball where he was tackled, but they didn't. If it really was a fair catch (just not inside the 25 yard line), then they should have applied the delay of game penalty. Either they should have spotted the ball where the runner was tackled or they should have applied the penalty, but they did neither.

[emma17]

Oh, and Ben Bartch has officially been named the opening day starting LG for Jacksonville.  That's a heck of an achievement.  And UWW's Quinn Meinerz has been named the starting RG for Denver.

Incredibly cool. I try to watch the games these D3 linemen play in- including when Ali Marpet was w Tampa Bay.