FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[DuffMan]

That'll never happen, though, as it goes against the D3 access for all philosophy.

[OzJohnnie]

That'll never happen, though, as it goes against the D3 access for all philosophy.

Yes, but...  D3 is reaching a point of competitiveness in football that cannot be reconciled with access for all.  If the NCAA devolves to arbitrarily awarding participation medals for post-season access then they will create an unsustainable situation.  The fact is that a national championship forces a competitiveness that is incompatible with the philosophy of "everyone gets a try".  The NCAA will be forced to reconcile that incompatibility. They will not be free to ignore it - just as the MIAC was not free to ignore it when they created the division structure in response to some teams being committed to national competitiveness and some teams not.

[d-train]

That'll never happen, though, as it goes against the D3 access for all philosophy.

Could you just give me a min or two to believe it's possible? 

[d-train]

Those .500 conference champs in March Madness are a ton of fun. But with the number of slots, everyone in the top 30 gets in as well. 4 at-large bids are not enough for D3 football. 

[DuffMan]

Could you just give me a min or two to believe it's possible? 

I blame Pat as I've listened to him explain this on his podcast a few too many times. 

[Texas Ole]

It's blame Northfield season!  I get some of the frustration, but as many have said you can't put it in the hands of a committee. If the MIAC were to drop football what would that do to SJU or Bethel?  Real question to ask yourselves. I know it's hard, and probably not as fun as people would like. Make sure you're honest. Would SJU have survived without Gagliardi?  Where is Bethel without Johnson?  What is St. Olaf without music?  Certain programs can drive schools more than we like to admit. That's scary for some schools more than others.

I'd heard over the years that St. Olaf was considering a move to the Midwest Conference. This was led by President Anderson. When he was a student at St. Olaf that was the conference. Olaf leaving was not going to be solely for athletic reasons. I would not be surprised if Carleton was also exploring that option. Mac had a foot out the door. One other football and hockey school leaves and the conference has some issues keeping its AQ statuses. Now what's the point of the conference?

What gets forgotten is that St. Olaf and Concordia had some great years in football a decade ago. I also will always believe the Tommies had an eye on leaving for D1. This just became an easy excuse. I believe only 3 schools had to vote to keep UST in the MIAC, and that didn't happen. Between graduate students and other issues the divide may have been larger than most want to believe. Outside of the rivalry I'm not sure UST was good for SJU.

Now for the issue with the playoffs. There are a few problems with the playoff as I see it. First for the number of schools it's too small. Unfortunately to win the championship it's I believe 15 games. That's a long season. Do we cut the schedule to 9 or 8 games and expand the playoff?  I think that's a bad idea, but I'd listen to it. I do think the AQ status for conferences with less than 8 schools needs to be eliminated. I get geographically that hurts some schools. If 6 team conferences get an AQ why doesn't the MIAC just form 2 6 team conferences?  I don't need transparency from a committee. I may not like or understand their decisions, but they do deserve some freedom to make the decisions they feel are right.  Last year as a TCU fan it was hard watching the Big 12 title game knowing we no longer controlled the decision. Luckily TCU got in the playoff, but don't leave it to a committee. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, but sometimes those 12 get it wrong.

Good luck to Bethel!  Sorry SJU as I know it hurts. One change I'd like to see in the division format is eliminating the mandatory championship matchups. Keep the two top seeds playing, but try to eliminate some of the repeat matchups where possible. That might mean taking into account playoff implications, but also give schools a chance to play a rival they missed in the regular season. I'd also like to see the urban schools have to travel a little more. They shouldn't get to play half their games within walking distance.

[GoldandBlueBU]

I believe only 3 schools had to vote to keep UST in the MIAC, and that didn't happen.

If I'm remembering the scenario correctly - I think that statement is more than a little mis-leading. 

I believe the coalition of losers basically forced the hand of the rest of the MIAC - if they didn't all vote to boot UST, then enough coalition of losers members were going to jump ship, and the MIAC would fall apart, so the hands of the rest of the MIAC presidents was sort of forced.

I do think that UST had aspirations beyond the MIAC/D3 regardless - so it may have just accelerated what was already going to happen.

[hazzben]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

I believe the coalition of losers basically forced the hand of the rest of the MIAC - if they didn't all vote to boot UST, then enough coalition of losers members were going to jump ship, and the MIAC would fall apart, so the hands of the rest of the MIAC presidents was sort of forced.

Always good to dust that one off, lest we forget. 

[DuffMan]

I do think that UST had aspirations beyond the MIAC/D3 regardless - so it may have just accelerated what was already going to happen.

100%

[DuffMan]

The way that St. Olaf pimps their recruits on social media, one would think they had actual aspirations for success. 

[WashedUp]

21 wins over three seasons might not be a lot for SJU or Bethel fans, but this is the first time in history Carleton has reached that mark.  I'm hopeful we can take the next step under Coach Journell and take one off of one of the top 3 teams in the conference.

In less great Carleton news, the women's basketball team has apparently canceled the entire season as they don't have enough players to field a team:

https://athletics.carleton.edu/news/2023/11/15/carleton-cancels-2023-24-womens-basketball-season.aspx

[DuffMan]

I'm hopeful we can take the next step under Coach Journell and take one off of one of the top 3 teams in the conference.

That'd be cool as long as it's not SJU.

[AO]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester. 

[DuffMan]

...and added CSS.

[hazzben]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.