FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Pat (or anyone in the know):  how often does the makeup of the national committee change?

Of the six people on the panel, generally two are new in any given year.

[AO]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.

Yeah I'm really thinking about the hypothetical coalition, not Bethel, that would have left the MIAC for leagues they would be more competitive in.

In other UMAC vs MIAC news, Bethel hasn't been too competitive with that team down Snelling in volleyball or hoops for a couple years now. 

[GoldandBlueBU]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.

Yeah I'm really thinking about the hypothetical coalition, not Bethel, that would have left the MIAC for leagues they would be more competitive in.

In other UMAC vs MIAC news, Bethel hasn't been too competitive with that team down Snelling in volleyball or hoops for a couple years now. 

I think we've done just fine against Hamline.   

Was just about to mention that, before I saw your post  -  this lens of conversation is extremely football focused, but BU has been far from dominant in the MIAC as far as other sports go.  Baseball has had a couple of consecutive years of MIAC championships, but hoops hasn't seriously contended for a number of years (Tusler & Wojta), and before that there was an even larger gap when they weren't true contenders.  The MIAC is the appropriate level for the majority of BU's athletics.

[hazzben]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.

Yeah I'm really thinking about the hypothetical coalition, not Bethel, that would have left the MIAC for leagues they would be more competitive in.

In other UMAC vs MIAC news, Bethel hasn't been too competitive with that team down Snelling in volleyball or hoops for a couple years now. 

I think we've done just fine against Hamline.   

Was just about to mention that, before I saw your post  -  this lens of conversation is extremely football focused, but BU has been far from dominant in the MIAC as far as other sports go.  Baseball has had a couple of consecutive years of MIAC championships, but hoops hasn't seriously contended for a number of years (Tusler & Wojta), and before that there was an even larger gap when they weren't true contenders.  The MIAC is the appropriate level for the majority of BU's athletics.

The hoops have taken a step back, coming off a run that was very competitive. But BU athletics are actually increasing in MIAC competitiveness. Golf, Hockey, Softball, baseball, M/W Track & Field are all top programs.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.

Yeah I'm really thinking about the hypothetical coalition, not Bethel, that would have left the MIAC for leagues they would be more competitive in.

In other UMAC vs MIAC news, Bethel hasn't been too competitive with that team down Snelling in volleyball or hoops for a couple years now. 

I think we've done just fine against Hamline.   

Was just about to mention that, before I saw your post  -  this lens of conversation is extremely football focused, but BU has been far from dominant in the MIAC as far as other sports go.  Baseball has had a couple of consecutive years of MIAC championships, but hoops hasn't seriously contended for a number of years (Tusler & Wojta), and before that there was an even larger gap when they weren't true contenders.  The MIAC is the appropriate level for the majority of BU's athletics.

The hoops have taken a step back, coming off a run that was very competitive. But BU athletics are actually increasing in MIAC competitiveness. Golf, Hockey, Softball, baseball, M/W Track & Field are all top programs.

100% - but I think they're in different standing than football...in an "average" year for MIAC football, neither BU or SJU will face much in terms of competition within the conference outside of their game against each other.  Maybe I'm wildly off - but I don't think that's the case, for the most part, in any of the other sports, for either school? 

On AO's original post - UNW volleyball has been on an incredible run for a number of years - I can't say that I've been to any games, but I do check their scores now and then and will certainly be looking to see how their post-season run goes this year.

[faunch]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.

Well there have been rumblings that a few MIAC institutions could be danger of dropping a lot more than just football...I've heard from different people at different times that no less than 3 schools could potentially shutter their doors in the not too distant future.

[faunch]

MIAC is way down in hoops....doesn't even have a ranked team in the preseason.
I watched the SJU game at UWEC last night. Might be the worst team coach McKenzie has had in 10 years. If the Johnnies don't find a way to played markedly better they might not be in the 4 of the league.

[OzJohnnie]

Well there have been rumblings that a few MIAC institutions could be danger of dropping a lot more than just football...I've heard from different people at different times that no less than 3 schools could potentially shutter their doors in the not too distant future.

I have no insight into any of this, of course, but there are many financial storms to weather over the next few years so I'm not surprised to find people are talking this way.

I hate to be in the minority, but I don't mind the division structure.  I don't think it has any bearing on national competitiveness and it lets the less competitive teams avoid horrendous stompings.  NCC rose from almost rans in a conference of perennial national relevance bridesmaids to take the country by storm and now look like goliaths.  UMHB did similarly.  MUC has operated without conference peers for ages.  Only the WIAC has offered a conference with unusual depth beyond the same two teams.  I don't think the conference is key to SJU or any other school's success.  Look at Wartburg now.  It's not like the same ol' ARC is pushing them to their current heights.

The program is the key.  And I don't think a conference change or division reorganisation will change the fact that the defence was unusually porous this season and that the offence was a little pass-dependent.  I'm getting "baby with the bathwater" vibes.  The program just needs to lift.  We had an off year.  Poor discipline.  Some failed execution.  Unusual scheme weakness.  Nothing in the conference structure will address that stuff.

Anyways, I guess one guy had to say the opposite to keep the forum hot.

[sjusection105]

Well there have been rumblings that a few MIAC institutions could be danger of dropping a lot more than just football...I've heard from different people at different times that no less than 3 schools could potentially shutter their doors in the not too distant future.

I have no insight into any of this, of course, but there are many financial storms to weather over the next few years so I'm not surprised to find people are talking this way.

I hate to be in the minority, but I don't mind the division structure.  I don't think it has any bearing on national competitiveness and it lets the less competitive teams avoid horrendous stompings.  NCC rose from almost rans in a conference of perennial national relevance bridesmaids to take the country by storm and now look like goliaths.  UMHB did similarly.  MUC has operated without conference peers for ages.  Only the WIAC has offered a conference with unusual depth beyond the same two teams.  I don't think the conference is key to SJU or any other school's success.  Look at Wartburg now.  It's not like the same ol' ARC is pushing them to their current heights.

The program is the key.  And I don't think a conference change or division reorganisation will change the fact that the defence was unusually porous this season and that the offence was a little pass-dependent.  I'm getting "baby with the bathwater" vibes.  The program just needs to lift.  We had an off year.  Poor discipline.  Some failed execution.  Unusual scheme weakness.  Nothing in the conference structure will address that stuff.

Anyways, I guess one guy had to say the opposite to keep the forum hot.

The undisciplined play & stupid penalties are what drive me nuts! Yes, we also had some poor situational football decisions made along the way. If these things continue to occur next year then the rumblings from the Grumpy Old Men segment of the fan base (I'm talking about old guys like me) will get louder. Will that be heard? I doubt it. Go Johnnies!

[AO]

On AO's original post - UNW volleyball has been on an incredible run for a number of years - I can't say that I've been to any games, but I do check their scores now and then and will certainly be looking to see how their post-season run goes this year.

Getting way ahead of myself here, but if the seeds hold up, Northwestern and Bethel could both be eliminating a Whitewater team on Saturday.

[TheChucker]

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.

Well there have been rumblings that a few MIAC institutions could be danger of dropping a lot more than just football...I've heard from different people at different times that no less than 3 schools could potentially shutter their doors in the not too distant future.

I have no idea which schools those would be, but the North Star Promise Scholarship program starting next year for state schools might be a pretty big blow to some private schools.

[Texas Ole]

I believe only 3 schools had to vote to keep UST in the MIAC, and that didn't happen.

If I'm remembering the scenario correctly - I think that statement is more than a little mis-leading. 

I believe the coalition of losers basically forced the hand of the rest of the MIAC - if they didn't all vote to boot UST, then enough coalition of losers members were going to jump ship, and the MIAC would fall apart, so the hands of the rest of the MIAC presidents was sort of forced.

I do think that UST had aspirations beyond the MIAC/D3 regardless - so it may have just accelerated what was already going to happen.

So the other schools were spineless in caving to a few who wanted to leave.  I am half joking here, but if the goal was to keep the conference together the MIAC could have added schools once certain ones left.  They also could have called what may have been a bluff.   

Is there value for BU and SJU to stay in the MIAC for football?

Where would we go?? If they fix the division/Champ game format there's not a reason to leave. But again, where are we going? The WIAC is a state school league. The UMAC is a massive downgrade in quality of school and competition. The ARC would be travel hell.

I also think there's value in the proximity and history for these teams.

It would certainly make more sense if the two D3 leagues in Minnesota for the 14 football teams each had 7 members, or maybe 8 and 6, instead of 10 and 4, when 10 means you don't even play 2 of the the teams. The downgrade in competition happened when you replaced St. Thomas with Macalester.

And CSS. But the suggestion was for Bethel and SJU to leave altogether. I don't love Mac and CSS from a competitive standpoint. I certainly don't want an entire slate of games like that.

Well there have been rumblings that a few MIAC institutions could be danger of dropping a lot more than just football...I've heard from different people at different times that no less than 3 schools could potentially shutter their doors in the not too distant future.

The question with Bethel and SJU staying in the MIAC is valid.  I don't know their aspirations with athletics.  I think SJU could make the jump similar to UST and be successful especially if SCSU continues down its path.  In full transparency; I think it might be in the best interest for all parties for SJU to consider a move out of the MIAC.  I am not advocating to kick them out, but I do think there are some benefits.  Bethel is a little different.  I am not sure Bethel could build something sustainable outside of the MIAC or the UMAC.  I think what makes Bethel successful as an institution would be lost.  In many ways the MIAC is lucky it hasn't seen much change over the years. 

One major change I would like to see is a split at the D3 level for sports with over 120 schools participating.  I am going to call it D3-University and D3-College.  It would be two full playoff brackets.  One (University) would be for schools who allow graduate students to play.  The other (College) would be for those who only allow kids 4 years of eligibility.  The moment your college career begins the clock starts.   Schools/Conferences can choose their category, and the conference champion gets in the bracket that fits its model. 

I have heard similar rumors of schools closing.  Augsburg was on the brink years ago, and it found a new niche.  I've long heard Hamline, St. Mary's, and St. Kate's being mentioned as schools at risk.  I think the people at Bethel behind some closed doors have to be terrified with how low the endowment is when compared to the annual budget.

Lastly, I am really sorry to hear about the Carleton WBB team.  Coach Metcalf-Filzen is a MIAC legend!  She is a blessing to everyone who meets her.  I remember her as one of the kindest and most caring people I ever met in Northfield.  I know this has to really hurt for everyone involved.  I wish Carleton the best when it comes to rebuilding their team.

[SagatagSam]

[...] In full transparency; I think it might be in the best interest for all parties for SJU to consider a move out of the MIAC.  [...]

We found President Anderson's burner account! 

[GoldandBlueBU]

I saw that UMD did not get an at-large bid, and the cited reason was their SoS being lower - so apparently that carried a heavier weighting for D2?

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/college/playoff-exclusion-marks-disappointing-ending-for-umd-football

[Texas Ole]

[...] In full transparency; I think it might be in the best interest for all parties for SJU to consider a move out of the MIAC.  [...]

We found President Anderson's burner account! 

Funny!  SJU moving on has less to do with athletic performance and more to do with having a bigger platform to grow the notoriety of the school. Probably the biggest window to SJU is through athletics. My question would be does UST's success as a D1 program help or hurt SJU remaining as a D3 school?

Most of the Oles I know were very critical of Anderson in his last few years at the school. He liked to walk through a cow pasture stomping his feet in as many patties as possible then walk into the house. He'd step in it and then carry it wherever he went.  Then he'd never fully clean his boots.

Also I've been thinking Mac probably didn't get the credit they deserved for UST exiting the MIAC. It was no secret Mac hated UST.  When Mac got decent at football UST hired Caruso from them.