FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[wildcat11]

The first thing I thought was "maybe he didn't know she was 14" but then I took a look at the article

--The complaint, filed Thursday in Morrison County District Court, indicates that several people at the party knew the girl was 14 and that the topic was discussed at the party. The girl told law enforcement officers that she told Luberts that she was only 14, according to the court complaint.

--Other individuals at the party were later interviewed by law enforcement. Almost all of the other individuals acknowledged knowing that (the victim) was only 14 years of age and said the topic was discussed at the party," the complaint reads.

In terms of SJU, I don't think that one player's mistake takes anything away from the great people that attend and graduated SJU but it does make you realize that no program is immune from an individual making a terrible life altering decision.

How SJU reacts will tell the story of the type of program the Johnnies have and I think we all know it will be handled with a well thought out and appropriate reaction.

[johnnie_esq]

Unfortunate news.  I will give him the benefit of the doubt until his trial, but from a legal perspective, I don't really like his chances.  I hope the school does the same, but I hope the football team does not allow him to participate until the matter is settled.  Too much risk involved here, and given his statements, the likelihood of success is not good.  This doesn't sound like Duke Lacrosse here.  I hope they suspend him from football & wrestling immediately, pending his appeal rights with the dean.

Tough when a kid makes a stupid mistake, even to put himself in that situation, and however intentional or irrational.  He will hopefully pay his dues and learn from it.

I feel quite concerned for the young girl.  I hope she can recover as well.

Freebird-- I owe you an email!

[FPM]

This case has red flags all over the place!!  First WTF is a 14 year old doing at a college party, second obviously this wasn't a first time thing seeing instead of the parents being worried about their daughter they call the cops and file a runaway report, third just because some people at the party knew the girls age it doesn't mean He knew.

 When I was a Sophmore in college I had a friend hookup with a girl at one of our Hamline parties she was the sister of a girl that was a junior we were told she was a freshman and all of us figured in College well about two hours later back in the dorm room we find out she was just about to turn 15 and was a freshman in HS, luckily he found out just before it went too far.  He was inches away from having the same type of thing happen to him.

very very unfortunate mishap.  I guess we will have to wait to hear more before judgement can be passed.  I just want to know did he know she was 14?

[TC]

Yikes.  This is horrible.

  Any suggestions to dealing with a UST student (and former football player)? 

I'd suggest a preemptive penicillin shot and a modest vocabulary. 

[dbhammel]

I've been struggling myself as to wether Craig knew this girl was 14 or not.  If he did then is clearly guilty.  It will be interesting to see how this case goes since the sctimes story makes it sound like many people at the party knew she was 14 and discussed it -- why was her age conversation worthy?  Was there something going on between her and Craig that made the people at the party discuss this, were other people aware of what was going on???

There are so many different questions and what-ifs in the case, I just wish it had never happend.

Uh-oh UST student is back from lunch, better put up my guard and pull out the after-bite!   

[dbhammel]

She says she told him she was 14, he says he didnt know...no mention of alcohol in the story either, I wonder if that was a factor?

[dbhammel]

Oh how fun it is to be from Boston!!!

A direct quote from Randy Moss after the first official Patriots day of camp...

Q: Can you hear the fans cheering for you?

A: You can. You all even heard it. That's just something that you try to block out because you have a job to do. It does feel good to hear the cheers and the kids screaming. That's really who drives our sport, it's the children. It is exciting and it's good to feel the love, but at the same time we have a job to do and we need to concentrate and focus on what we have to do on the field.

[johnnie_esq]

I've been struggling myself as to wether Craig knew this girl was 14 or not.

His knowledge is irrelevant under the law.  In this case it doesn't matter whether she was 17 or 14 or whatever.  That she was at the time under the age of 18 means she was legally unable to form consent, and therefore whether he knew or not is not a defense to him.  The elements to support the charge appear to be here-- he has admitted they had sex, and she was under the age of 18. 

Aren't they both from Pierz?  Forgive me, but Pierz isn't that big of a town whereby you wouldn't know someone is 3 years younger than you or 7 years younger.

They pulled the story from the Times website...what's going on here?

As far as alcohol, that could bring another charge of providing alcohol to someone under the age of 21, too.  My guess is nobody is admitting there was alcohol at the party in their own self-interest.

[K-Mack]

Well, I certainly don't want to pass judgement on this case from my perch as a D3 writer (although I do think it's wise for Luberts not to play this season, and likely, based on the charge alone), but with all the discussion from the father perspective, I wouldn't mind chiming in with some more general thoughts.

As a father of a boy and a girl (granted, they're still toddlers so I have a lot of time to figure this out still), I definitely think it's important to prepare them both to make smart decisions on their own. I know it's perhaps a little insane, but even now, around the house, if there are small decisions that they can make (like what DVD to watch or game to play) or small ways they can take responsibility for their actions (like cleaning up their toys or food they spill), I try to have them do it. It's part of my core belief about parenting, that you're there to give them the tools and "moral character" that prepares them to make good decisions on their own. Too often I hear people talk about parenting in terms of protecting their children from the world.

I think that's a flawed approach, because even the nicest kid in the nicest town is going to confront some tough situations from time to time.

I don't want to come off as holier than thou by any means, especially for the longtime parents ... listening to a newbie spout off about how it's done. Besides, I know I put myself in some situations as a teenager that could've turned out much worse. As I liked to say at the time, I was around trouble but smart enough not to be in it.

I guess part of me finds it really hard to pass judgement. I realize this will be an unpopular sentiment, but does anyone else find it to be an important distinction that the sex was (apparently) consensual?

I've followed the Genarlow Wilson case some (and for a while, though it's recently been big news), and I just find it so hard to believe that the difference between a felony and a non-crime can be a few months in age.

That's not quite the deal here, as the difference in ages is quite pronounced. I know it's also the view of the law that teenagers of a certain age aren't old enough to give consent. In theory, that makes sense. But practically applied, it puts a difficult burden on the men, who have to check the age of everyone they talk to, make sure they aren't too drunk to give consent and determine that even if it seems OK, it really isn't.

Again, in theory that makes sense. But generally speaking, we men aren't built to resist temptation so well. It takes a very strong, forward-thinking person to actively keep himself out of situations where he'll have to have his brain battle his "inspiration" for decision-making supremacy.

Based on the St. Cloud Times story, sounds like that could have been avoided rather easily by dropping her off anyway, curfew or not, in this situation. But how many young college guys would have made that decision? I don't think 100%. Some of you ought to realize that you could have done something similar in your day, especially if you didn't know (or didn't care to ask about) her age.

The guy in this situation may have taken advantage of a young girl for consensual sex, and that's bad. But it's crazy how once it makes the papers, it becomes far more of a life-altering situation for both of them, as the guy sort of gets lumped in with the violent rapists and child predators, and the girl has to re-live a painful experience, have her life dissected in public, etc.

I guess I'm wondering if prosecuting it as a felony helps the victim in this case, and do people think it will stop it from happening again?

[TC]

They pulled the story from the Times website...what's going on here?

I can still access the story, but I can't access the comments.  What am I missing?

[sfury]

I just went and saw the story on the Times' site, under Local News, but the comments have been disabled, which isn't surprising since those things can devolve pretty quickly.

[johnnie_esq]

They pulled the story from the Times website...what's going on here?

I can still access the story, but I can't access the comments.  What am I missing?

It must have rolled off the front page into the local news page.  I think they disabled the comments as they seemed to get somewhat heated there (and almost blaming the girl or her parents).

[K-Mack]

Also:
The discussion just on the preceding page alone I thought included some rather acute observations that made the situation seem a little less cut-and-dried. I won't rehash them all, but they include some of the red flags mentioned above (why was a 14-year-old at a college party, phoned in as a runaway sort of fast, etc.)

Also, as a journalist, I can tell you that the first story in a case like this is almost entirely from the police report. While that is not bad journalism per se, it at least goes against the "two sides to every story" adage. Probably more relevant in this story is the inference that there are probably many more than two relevant sides in this story, as the party discussion of the girl's age seems to be key, at least in the public's passing judgement on the guy, if not under the law (I did see your post johnnie_esq)

Anyway, I don't want to dismiss the strong possibility that the guy did something at least devious and at worst criminal here. But perhaps its been overstated how "terrible" the entire crime was. It's certainly not going to get any better from here on out for any of the parties involved.

I hope haven't painted myself as "defending the guy" guy, because I think at this point, it's way too easy to stand here in judgement of the people involved, take sides and claim to know what happened and what the resolution should be.

I guess I'm sort of a "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" kind of guy, and I see the perspective where the accused is also victimized (though it may be due to his own actions) and I feel for everyone involved.

[repete]

I'm guessing the comments went out of bounds as some of those Stearns County nuts and Johnnie haters chime in.

KMack,
Sounds like you're on the right path.

Too much "learned helplessness" enabled by some parents out there. The foundation starts earlier than many think. Enjoy toddlerhood.

[dbhammel]

Johhnie-esq -- very true indeed, he probably knew she was much younger regardless of knowing her actual age, and wether he knew or not still makes it illegal, true indeed.

Pat -- the consensual issue is very tough.  She says she didnt say no or try to stop him, so it isnt considered rape by any means.  Consensual sex with a minor is still a very serious crime, and the issue in our legal system is wether or not a minor is actually able to grant consent.  I think the issue is that no two 14 year olds are the same, or any two 17 year olds either.  It is so hard to say at what point in their life a person is able to make those kinds of decisions rationally.  If there was an instance where a person was a day from turning 16 then it would be illegal for an adult to have sex with them, but 2 days later it wouldnt be illegal.  Clearly those 2 days didnt make any difference, but legally there is a distinction.  

Obviously this is not the case with this situation, being that she isnt anywhere near of age.  I think the tough thing is that we all want to protect innocent young children from sexual predators who take advantage of them.  No one will ever questions that.  But their will always be cases where what happend is in questions, where the ages are much closer and wether or not what happend is philosphically a crime.  

Thats why im not in a law school.