FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[tmerton]

Just like tmerton said earlier in reply #36077 "It starts at the top.  And I'll bet the Johnnies do less of it than anyone else precisely for that reason."  Where did Kurt learn his strategies?

Hey, go ahead and pimp your ride if you want, but do try to keep a modicum of rationality.  Assume for the sake of your argument that Ramler was 100% wrong, are you really trying to lay that at the feet of John Gagliardi?  What are you, 13?  You obviously haven't grown to the point of being responsible for your own decisions.

[Mr.Shoes]

Typically whenever St. Olaf plays Carleton the entire team travels.  This is the first year that this has not been the case.

Taking this as true (because I have no reason to believe otherwise), you then argue that Ramler apparently "offended" STO by declining to allow a bunch of backups to enjoy the exceptional team-bonding experience that is a 2 mile trip across town. And because Ramler's decision was such an affront to STO, it's OK for STO to drop 85 points on them in retribution (you even argued for triple digits).

An aside: STO is a fantastic school and I happen to work with an Ole grad who played LB in the late 90s and who is now an exceptional Java programmer. Knowing him as I do, I highly doubt that the type of twisted logic you're employing is taught in school at STO.

Back OT: For you to say that Penz going deep to Gant with 12 minutes left in a game that STO was already winning 64-28 is OK because Carleton wouldn't let STO bring the entire squad is absolutely pathetic and illogical.

[Kilted Rat]

KR: Do I need to bring 20oz Mountain Dew bottles to drink my cold refreshing Hamm's out of?  I do recall quite vividly talking to you and Duffman on the phone during the Stiftungsfestivities last time it was at Bethel.  You weren't very coherrent.

You coming?
I was pretty damn incoherent that day, I remember that much!


Esq,
Please post the story about Gags showing other schools what 72 points means!!!!!




PS. My compy is on the fritz, so my internet access will be limited this week.  Please feel free to increase your quotient of smart@$$ed comments to make up for my absence!

[sju56321]

I'm still trying to ascertain why a 9-10 football coach is throwing with 4:00 minutes left in the game and a running clock, when his team is up 27-6, so this STO thing,
What did Meidt have to say to reporters after the game? It is impossible to know what was going on in his head, but I wonder how he defended the final score.
Anyway, on to Bethel. I like SJU's chances with a week off to prepare. If it is a shootout, that could help Bethel. SJU needs playoff style defense.

[TC]

85 points?  Yikes, that's a lot of scoring.  I've never really had much of an opinion on running up the score.  I would argue that there is a big difference between this game--where Carleton was largely defenseless--and SJU v. Olaf in 2005, where both teams came into the game undefeated and looking to make a statement.  Regardless, just another piece of ammo for us to fight back with in the annual "St. John's is a bunch of big, stupid poopy-heads who always run up the score" discussion.


Anyone knock down any deer this weekend?  It was great fishing weather, but for the 3rd straight weekend the Mille Lacs muskies were chasing lures but not eating them.  Bastards.  Anyone see the Pioneer Press picture of the 55 inch, 50 pounder caught last weekend?  Ridiculous.


So I made a friendly wager with a buddy that no team stays within 21 points of Mount Union the rest of the way.  Thoughts?  I thought Mary Hardin-Baylor might be the one team that could score with them, but they got blown out by UW-Whitewater, who looked relatively pedestrian in getting beat by SCSU and sneaking by UW-La Crosse, who isn't as good as everyone thought they were.  The only other team that may have a chance is St. John's.  I'd be happy to pay up, if that happens to be the case.


Haha, St. Thomas.  Hamline?  That's horrible.  Sounds like Augsburg played a great game on Friday.  After seeing how badly they got beat by St. John's early in the year I never would have imagined them having this nice of a season.  Concordia has to be kicking themselves for close losses to Bethel and St. Olaf.  Even with the blowout to St. John's, the Cobbers are dancing if they win those two.


Hockey detour:  I was at the Gophers/Denver game this afternoon.  The Gophs need to grow up REALLY fast on the blueline.  Not only did losing Vanelli, Goligoski and Johnson kill them defensively, they can't run their offense or power play through the point anymore.  Tough to watch as they have absolutely no flow.  Of course, they have no shortage of talent--maybe this year's team will peak in the playoffs, rather than a month early like last year.


Adrian F'ing Peterson!


Oh yeah, almost forgot:  BETHEL IS BAD!!!
My favorite St. John's/Bethel memory:  October 27, 2001.  St. John's had lost two early games and were a game behind undefeated and #5-ranked Bethel in the MIAC standings.  A little late getting to the game, I walked in right as Brad Beyer blocked the first Bethel punt and ran it in to put the Johnnies up 6-0 with more than 14 minutes left in the first quarter.  Long story short, Blake Elliott catches 2 TD passes, the Johnnies bring a fumble back 99 yards, St. John's prevails 34-0, win the MIAC's automatic playoff berth and win the West Region while Bethel loses in the first round of the playoffs, as is their destiny.  Moral of the story?   BETHEL IS BAD!!!

[TC]

Anyway, on to Bethel. I like SJU's chances with a week off to prepare. If it is a shootout, that could help Bethel. SJU needs playoff style defense.

I tend to agree with this assessment--after last year's debacle, I'd imagine the Johnnies are salivating for another shot at the Royals. 

The extended forecast calls for 49 and a 30% chance of rain.  I'm praying for a dry track (fat chance at Bethel, I'm sure they already have the sprinklers going) so Kofoed has a chance to finally prove himself on the road (that one was for you, ZIP).

[familyguyfaneightyfour]

Typically whenever St. Olaf plays Carleton the entire team travels.  This is the first year that this has not been the case.

Taking this as true (because I have no reason to believe otherwise), you then argue that Ramler apparently "offended" STO by declining to allow a bunch of backups to enjoy the exceptional team-bonding experience that is a 2 mile trip across town. And because Ramler's decision was such an affront to STO, it's OK for STO to drop 85 points on them in retribution (you even argued for triple digits).

An aside: STO is a fantastic school and I happen to work with an Ole grad who played LB in the late 90s and who is now an exceptional Java programmer. Knowing him as I do, I highly doubt that the type of twisted logic you're employing is taught in school at STO.

Back OT: For you to say that Penz going deep to Gant with 12 minutes left in a game that STO was already winning 64-28 is OK because Carleton wouldn't let STO bring the entire squad is absolutely pathetic and illogical.

You should be pointing your argument towards chadbrochillseventeen, not me.  He is the one arguing those points.

on a side note, why should the second stringers for st. olaf be told that they need to not try their hardest when they get in the game?  They are, for the most part, going to be competing for starting positions next year.  They are trying to show the coaches what they can do to see if they can't get more playing time.  It isn't fair for them to be told to not play hard so that the carleton players don't get their feelings hurt by losing big in a cross-town-rivalry game.

[Mr.Shoes]

Typically whenever St. Olaf plays Carleton the entire team travels.  This is the first year that this has not been the case.

Taking this as true (because I have no reason to believe otherwise), you then argue that Ramler apparently "offended" STO by declining to allow a bunch of backups to enjoy the exceptional team-bonding experience that is a 2 mile trip across town. And because Ramler's decision was such an affront to STO, it's OK for STO to drop 85 points on them in retribution (you even argued for triple digits).

An aside: STO is a fantastic school and I happen to work with an Ole grad who played LB in the late 90s and who is now an exceptional Java programmer. Knowing him as I do, I highly doubt that the type of twisted logic you're employing is taught in school at STO.

Back OT: For you to say that Penz going deep to Gant with 12 minutes left in a game that STO was already winning 64-28 is OK because Carleton wouldn't let STO bring the entire squad is absolutely pathetic and illogical.

You should be pointing your argument towards chadbrochillseventeen, not me.  He is the one arguing those points.

My bad. Apologies.

on a side note, why should the second stringers for st. olaf be told that they need to not try their hardest when they get in the game?  They are, for the most part, going to be competing for starting positions next year.  They are trying to show the coaches what they can do to see if they can't get more playing time.  It isn't fair for them to be told to not play hard so that the carleton players don't get their feelings hurt by losing big in a cross-town-rivalry game.

Alright then. I'll let TC answer for me.

Regardless, just another piece of ammo for us to fight back with in the annual "St. John's is a bunch of big, stupid poopy-heads who always run up the score" discussion.

[stanbob]

Typically whenever St. Olaf plays Carleton the entire team travels.  This is the first year that this has not been the case.

Taking this as true (because I have no reason to believe otherwise), you then argue that Ramler apparently "offended" STO by declining to allow a bunch of backups to enjoy the exceptional team-bonding experience that is a 2 mile trip across town. And because Ramler's decision was such an affront to STO, it's OK for STO to drop 85 points on them in retribution (you even argued for triple digits).

An aside: STO is a fantastic school and I happen to work with an Ole grad who played LB in the late 90s and who is now an exceptional Java programmer. Knowing him as I do, I highly doubt that the type of twisted logic you're employing is taught in school at STO.

Back OT: For you to say that Penz going deep to Gant with 12 minutes left in a game that STO was already winning 64-28 is OK because Carleton wouldn't let STO bring the entire squad is absolutely pathetic and illogical.

You should be pointing your argument towards chadbrochillseventeen, not me.  He is the one arguing those points.

on a side note, why should the second stringers for st. olaf be told that they need to not try their hardest when they get in the game?  They are, for the most part, going to be competing for starting positions next year.  They are trying to show the coaches what they can do to see if they can't get more playing time.  It isn't fair for them to be told to not play hard so that the carleton players don't get their feelings hurt by losing big in a cross-town-rivalry game.

mayhaps it has something to do with the fact it wasnt the second stringers in the game?

[johnnie_esq]

Esq,
Please post the story about Gags showing other schools what 72 points means!!!!!

KR-- it does seem appropriately relevant, given the timing and teams involved, eh?  Looking forward to seeing you Saturday!

Here cometh the Esq's annual telling of the tale of the BC-SJU rivalry.  Yes, I did mean to say BC and not BU; no, the contents of the tale may not be 100% verifiably accurate and accounted for.  But it certainly makes for a good story.

The story begins in 1992.  Steve Johnson was a young coach at Bethel, and had begun turning the Royals around almost immediately.  But in 1992, he was named as one of the decision-makers for the NCAA playoffs.  Back then, only 16 teams made the Division III playoffs-- 4 in each region-- and the process wasn't as transparent as it is now.  There were no automatic qualifiers then; no Pool C births-- just conference representatives that met together to pick the four best teams from each region.  In 1992, the MIAC's representative was Steve Johnson.

Now, mind you, the SJU team in 1992 was supposed to be pretty good.  In 1991, the Jays lost to Dayton in the NCAA semifinals-- it was the last year that the Dayton rule was in effect, and Dayton was forced to move into a new division-- so there was much optimism in Collegeville in the fall of 1992 about a possibility of a return to the Stagg Bowl.

The season started out right where the Johnnies left off- beating up on Bemidji State, Augsburg, Gustavus, St. Olaf, Bethel and Hamline leading up to the Tommie game-- that year, held in St. Paul-- mind you, this was back when the Tommies actually fielded teams that would compete with the Johnnies.  But several questionable calls later, the Tommies sent the Johnnies back to Collegeville with their first regular season loss in almost two years-- a 15-12 heartbreaker. 

Meanwhile, in Northfield, SJU alumni Bob Sullivan had put together a respectable Carleton squad that was rolling over its opponents as well, and was undefeated leading up to its date with the Johnnies.  The Johnnies, not anxious to relinquish its crown, found the end zone...over, and over, and over again, racking up a convincing 70-7 win over the up-until-then undefeated Knights.  At this point there was a tie for the MIAC title with one week left to play in the season.  The Johnnies drew their longtime nemeses Concordia, coached by Gagliardi's contemporary Jim Christopherson, who was as decorated a coach as anyone in the game even then.   The Cobbers fought out a 18-18 tie with the Johnnies, leaving the Jays with an 8-1-1 record.  Carleton, meanwhile, won its regular season finale and finished 9-1, winning the MIAC title outright.

But again, back then, the playoff births didn't have to go to conference champions, they went to the best teams in the region, and St. John's, despite their blemished record, was still considered by many as the best team in the MIAC.  However, as the legend continues, when the committee was discussing a MIAC representative to the West Region, Steve Johnson recommended Carleton carry the MIAC's torch instead of St. John's.  St. John's went playoff-less; Carleton promptly got trounced in the first round.

Gaglardi was understandably upset- the Johnnies had beaten the Knights by 63 points and were denied a birth; but he had vowed his revenge-- it just so happened that the opponent for John's 300th victory (the following season) was scheduled to be none other than Steve Johnson's Bethel Royals, in Arden Hills.

Keep in mind that 1993 team was the Point-a-Minute squad, and the greatest show on grasss.  But to show exactly what it felt like to have 70 points scored upon you, John made sure that his best players stayed in the game.  When it was over, a 77-12 drubbing of the Royals, Gagliardi believed that order had been returned to the MIAC, except that, with the 300th victory media asking for comment from the losing coach, they received some comments considered by Gagliardi to be less than cordial about the winning coach.  And so it began...

It next came to a head in the fall of 1996, when Johnson led his undefeated Royals into Collegeville to do battle against the undefeated Johnnies.  "The Team of the Century" noted Johnson, would certainly make Arden Hills proud and knock off the arrogant Johnnies, whose teams had been atop the MIAC standings every year from 1989 on.  That Bethel team took the opening kickoff and marched right down the field on the Johnnies and stuck the ball into the endzone.  Not to be outdone, the Royals went for two and converted.  Bethel 8 - Johnnies 0, and given the way the Royals moved the ball so efficiently, there may be no way of stopping them that afternoon.  But that was premature-- the Johnnies proceeded to run off 56 unanswered points, sending the "Team of the Century" home with a 56-8 spanking. 

The Royals finally did knock off the Johnnies in 1999, and again in 2000, each time earning their own trip to the NCAAs; and each time losing in the first round.  Meanwhile, the Johnnies advanced to the NCAA quarterfinals in 1999, and lost to Mount Union in the Stagg Bowl 10-7 in 2000, getting the better of their MIAC counterparts those times. 

But this is what rivalries are made of: good competitive games; stories like these; running backs fumbling while leaping for the goal line and alert defenders picking the ball up and running 99 yards the other way for the TD; Kirchoff versus Elliott; A.J. Parnell; all the way up to the Wetzell team that ruined the Johnnie undefeated season last year. The Royals have arrived; the Johnnies have had to make room.  Who wins this time around?  The MIAC's two best teams meeting on the last week of the season, with an automatic qualification to the NCAA playoffs on the line, and a loss for Bethel means the end of the season, to be played on the soft grass atop the hill in Arden Hills, a place where the Johnnies are 1-2 since 1999. 

This is what MIAC football is all about!

[GoldandBlueBU]

not gonna quote it to save room, but esq, that was flat out awesome.  Yeah, its a bummer to have been consistently on the losing side, but oh well...your post just about makes it worthwhile.  can I offer my firstborn as I do not have karma abilities?

[stanbob]

not gonna quote it to save room, but esq, that was flat out awesome.  Yeah, its a bummer to have been consistently on the losing side, but oh well...your post just about makes it worthwhile.  can I offer my firstborn as I do not have karma abilities?

do you have the abilties to have a firstborn?

[GoldandBlueBU]

potential yes, wife no.  gotta graduate first.

[retagent]

A few pages back, skunks sidekick posted about the classy Larry Kehres, and how he handles blowouts at Mt Union. I happened to catch some of the Mt Union/James Carroll game from yesterday. The Raiders were up 50 - 0. Michaeli (sp?) was still in the game slinging until the end of the third quarter. Kmic, however, was not playing. Then in the fourth, they bring in the backup, who, to me at least, looked as good as the starter. I don't know about the other positions or the "D" as the announcers weren't all that helpful in identifying players other than the skill positions. The final, I believe was 53 - 0, so there didn't appear to be an effort to run up the score, but I did find it curious that the starting QB was left in so late with that big of a lead. I don't know what others will make of this, and I've always heard that Kehres doesn't try to run it up.............

TC - I saw the Gophers today, and also marveled at the fact that losing your top three defensemen can have such a profound effect on your ability to score. They just seem to be out of sync this year. Let's hope they can get it together. They appear to have the talent.

[skunks_sidekick]

James Carrol

MiCHELI was still slinging it in until the end of the 3rd quarter?

You were AT this game right?

Nice.........retagent strikes again....

Go figure....