FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[finsleft]

HEY! Now I'm trying to talk a little baseball and you guys insist on bringing up football...

If the Twins got Young then they don't need Cabrera and hopefully the Yankees will bow out.  I doubt it though, Hank Steinbrenner seems to want to act like daddy used to.

Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah...Young will play left field so we still need a CF. But Melky may not be the answer. Santana, and probably Nathan will go to the NL. Bet a Hamm's on it.

Both will be gone, hopefully to NL for a good CF and help at 3B and at least one ready-now SP (we cant bank on Liriano yet...eventually, but lets make sure he's 100% first)..
Fins-- are you getting a suite this year?

Yeah, yours. Shoot, I'll be lucky to get right field upper deck after they jack the prices in the new place.
Help at 3rd? We still have Punto, don't we?  

[tmerton]

Okay, baseball, a little Hamms, a little ice fishing, and a little rivarly talk - looks like the beginning of the offseason.

Good luck to those still playing.  The shoe is usually on the other foot after all.  And please, Royals, bully for you and I know you're excited but give it a rest on talking about how the Johnnies are at home and you're still playing.  This is a first after all.

As a football dad, good luck to all the other football dads - and to your sons.  And Scrubby, I include football grand-dads.

[bcflyguy1]

I think I have finally been able to determine what the Bethel types like thefreebird want; simple acknowledgment for a job well done........

NOBODY who has ANY say in the outcome of ANY game, be it Bethel, SJU, or any other school, has ever or will ever seek acknowledgment from you, me or anyone else on this board.

Preach it Brother!   Shoot an email my way if you get a chance.

Sounds like the roads may not be in the best shape this weekend.  Saturday's forecast for Pella is a 70% chance of mixed precip. and a high of 34.  Hopefully everybody travelling to the game will be safe.

[VOJ]

To all my fellow SJU backers,

I think I have finally been able to determine what the Bethel types like thefreebird want; simple acknowledgment for a job well done........they are no longer in diapers and want us to acknowledge that they have pooped in the big boy toilet (won in the playoffs).  They want to show us their poop, have us comment on how big it was and encourage them to continue using the toilet.  The problem is they are going to continue to want to show us their poop (if there is any) and have us continue to validate their growing potty skills.......for those of you parents you will know what I'm talking about....after awhile seeing the poop gets old and just want to make sure they wash their hands.....keep in mind there will be accidents...where they go in their trousers again....

So there you have it-----Bethel good job for being big boys and winning a couple of games in the playoffs, make sure you wash you hands and don't forget to flush

WELL SAID!!!

[Rugman]

Hey will you guys from Bethel University for Boys and Girls pipe down, I'm trying to talk some ice fishing with my man stanbob.

Fins, I like the side by side of the shark and the ice house.  You truely are a wide world of sportsmen. 8)

[Rugman]

Yes, yes, it's expensive, but Baseball isn't a business.  Baseball is a passion (what's a guy gonna do with his billion dollars anyway?).  The Twinks work their farm system to maintain a bit above average team with trades for almost-superstars and developed surprises.  The new ballpark needs a big team.  I wish the Twins would make a go of it like Toronto did when they picked up Morris after '91.

Oz, agree with your emotions here, but baseball teams are owned by businessmen and ours is owned by a banker so I can't see him throwing any money around.  Even if Santana is only 1% of Carl's net worth, I bet if he signed him and he blew his arm out for good the next season, Carl would frame and hang his balance sheet for that month and title it NEVER AGAIN!

The Twins success in the current baseball environment has been to win with players on their way up and hold on to them as long as they can afford to once they plateau and not be paying them big bucks on their way down.  The big market teams can afford their mistakes (defined as paying multi-millions a year for players now worth mimimun wage because their contract is out-living their skills).  The small markets can't. 

There may be a case for special circumstances such as a new stadium, but then again, you only need to put a competitive team on the field with the new stadium for a few years before you need post season participation to keep the interest up.

[sjusection105]

  The big market teams can afford their mistakes (defined as paying multi-millions a year for players now worth mimimun wage because their contract is out-living their skills).  The small markets can't. 

This is the cornerstone of the Timberwolves success for the past 17 years

[cobbernation]

HEY! Now I'm trying to talk a little baseball and you guys insist on bringing up football...

If the Twins got Young then they don't need Cabrera and hopefully the Yankees will bow out.  I doubt it though, Hank Steinbrenner seems to want to act like daddy used to.

Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah...Young will play left field so we still need a CF. But Melky may not be the answer. Santana, and probably Nathan will go to the NL. Bet a Hamm's on it.

Both will be gone, hopefully to NL for a good CF and help at 3B and at least one ready-now SP (we cant bank on Liriano yet...eventually, but lets make sure he's 100% first)..
Fins-- are you getting a suite this year?

Yeah, yours. Shoot, I'll be lucky to get right field upper deck after they jack the prices in the new place.
Help at 3rd? We still have Punto, don't we? 

I thought gardy announced that Punto was going to be this year's everyday 2nd baseman.  I could be wrong.  I think the twins should try a deal with the red sox to trade santana and nathan for elsbury (CF), Paplebon (closer) and pedroia (2B) and possibly cash or pitching prospects.  It would be in the best interest for the twins to trade santana or he will be leaving after next season and the twins will get nothing for him.  For example...torri hunter!

[Rugman]

  The big market teams can afford their mistakes (defined as paying multi-millions a year for players now worth mimimun wage because their contract is out-living their skills).  The small markets can't. 

This is the cornerstone of the Timberwolves success for the past 17 years

Yeah, hasn't worked for them, has it?...but I think basketball is an entirely different business.  There is no place to invest in developing talent whereas in baseball you have your minor league system.  

Small market success in basketball requires the ability to judge how college and high school talent will adapt or fit the needs of the pro level, because the difference between the way the amateur and professional game for basketball is much greater than baseball and football.

And I think the importance of chemistry and competitiveness is more important in pro basketball than baseball or football.  In other words the successful GM and coach in pro basketball needs to be a better psychologist than the other sports or at least have access to better psychologists.

And, one last thought, doesn't pro basketball have more mechanism's in place to level the playing field in terms of money to spend, which is really what baseball is ultimately going to need?

[oldbethel27]

You just can't let it go without a cheap shot of 'Johnnie Wannabes'.

How is stating the fact that there are both a) Johnnies and b) Johnnie Wannabes a cheap-shot?  My aren't we a sensitive bunch.

Kinda like twisting the seeds on the bottom of the pile or giving that nice hard shot just after whistle, isn't it?

Speaking of "can't let it go"...

[Knightstalker]

This should bring a little Holiday Cheer to MIACPP.  KS finds number 7 especially interesting from a medical standpoint.  KS thinks KR will definitely need to examine and report his findings.

[finsleft]

This should bring a little Holiday Cheer to MIACPP.  KS finds number 7 especially interesting from a medical standpoint.  KS thinks KR will definitely need to examine and report his findings.

As a trained groinacologist, allow me to report in my cousin KR's absence. Those are certainly some interesting specimens, but my trained eye tells me they are in need of a little service. Is this from where we get the holiday expression "ho, ho, ho" ?

[Knightstalker]

This should bring a little Holiday Cheer to MIACPP.  KS finds number 7 especially interesting from a medical standpoint.  KS thinks KR will definitely need to examine and report his findings.

As a trained groinacologist, allow me to report in my cousin KR's absence. Those are certainly some interesting specimens, but my trained eye tells me they are in need of a little service. Is this from where we get the holiday expression "ho, ho, ho" ?

In fact number 16 shows Santa and his Ho Ho Ho Ho's.

[TC]

IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT BASEBALL OR THE TWINS (OR MY SELF-IMPORTANT OPINIONS ON EITHER) PLEASE SKIP THIS POST

Rather than writing out my thoughts on the trade for Mr.Shoes and Mr.Shoes alone, I figure I might as well put them here since the subject has been brought up.  Let Shoes get them secondhand, I say.

The one thing that everyone seems to be glossing over is the fact that sometime between yesterday, when the trade was reported as virtually complete, and this morning when I saw it officially announced, Juan Rincon was removed from the deal and Eduardo Morlan was inserted in his place.  Major negative for the Twins.  Rincon at the approximately $4MM he will receive in arbitration is not an asset.  He has declined steadily and significantly in the last 4 years.  The Twins should be happy to get anything of value for him at this point.  Morlan--who is a fairly significant relief prospect, if such thing exists--could likely step in this year and provide similar production to what Rincon will provide.  And he'll be cheap--nearly free for the next three years and more than affordable for the 3 following--for a long time.  In essence, he's the type of player the Twins keep developing so they can turn around and trade the Rincons to teams like the Rays.

On a broad level, this trade is the polar opposite of everything Terry Ryan has built this team on:  they are significantly hindering their defense, taking on a player with potential off-the-field issues, and making a trade that has significant risk associated.  This isn't necessarily bad news for people who have grown tired of Ryan's risk-adverse, run-scoring-adverse teams of late. 

The whole trade hinges, obviously, on Delmon Young.  Throw the 93 RBIs from his rookie year out the window--it was a disappointing season for him.  He played 162 games and didn't hit any HRs (13) or draw any walks (26).  Any player who bats in the middle of an order as talented as the '07 Devil Rays for 162 games should drive in at least 93 runs.  That said, the percentage of position players who reach the majors at age 20 and hold their own at age 21 (like Young has done), and turn into legitimate Hall of Fame-type players is staggering.  There is a very real posibility that, from an offensive standpoint, the Twins just added an Albert Belle or Manny Ramirez-type player to the middle of their lineup for the next handful of years. 

I saw someone else on the innerwebs (perfectly) describe Young's CF defense as "Hall of Fame Caliber.  Ken Griffey, Jr., in fact.  The Cincinnatti years, not the Seattle years."  It would be kind to describe his ability in CF as "embarrassing", and I would be shocked if the Twins plan on playing him in CF next year.  As fins said, he'll likely be the LF.  If the Twins wanted to get super creative, and Cuddyer thinks he's up to it, I'd love to see Cuddy back at 3B with Young in RF.  His range is more than good enough to play RF in the Dome and his arm is sick. 

Another Albert Belle comparison could be made for Young off the field, too.  While everyone knows about Young's infamous bat throwing incident, there has been a lot of talk about how the Twins weren't particularly enthused with Garza's makeup either.  It looks like a swap of highly talented prospects who were somewhat redundant and had worn out their welcomes with their current teams.

I think Matt Garza will be a very good pitcher very soon, which will make him a very valuable commodity.  Because the Twins can't realistically use an eight-man rotation and because the Rays' pitching staff is their answer to the Twins' 7-8-9 hitters, Garza has much more value in Tampa than Minneapolis.

Brendan Harris isn't a SS any more than Nick Punto is a major league hitter.  Sure, they both masqueraded as one last year, but if you fire a pig into space that doesn't make him an astronaut.  He doesn't have the bat to be an asset at 3B, and doesn't really have the glove to be a huge help at 2B but he's a reasonable player to have around--and even getting the Twins to league-average at those positions will be a gigantic upgrade from last year.

The Twins are obviously very high on Jason Pridie (they had him in the '06 Rule 5 Draft but gave him back to Tampa) and he hit for the first time in his career last year in AAA, which is nice.  He might be the best CF in the Twins organization today, but he realistically isn't more than a 4th or 5th outfielder.  Still, a decent little feller to have around.

What shocked the hell out of me was Jason Bartlett's inclusion in the deal.  The Twins were obviously never high on him--he would have easily outperformed Juan Castro during Casto's reign or terror in Minneapolis--but it is hard to imagine a team as cost-conscious as the Twins would discard a cheap, young SS who is above-average both at the bat and in the field, especially when they have no heir apparent to replace him with.  This seems equally strange because the Rays have a stud SS prospect (Reid Brignac) who is about a year away from hitting the majors.  Still, with as cheap and good as Bartlett is, it would not be a problem for Tampa to flip Bartlett after this season if that problem arises.

My guess is that this means the Twins are closer to trading Santana to the Mets for a package anchored by Jose Reyes.  If this is the first in a series of moves that ends up with the Twins offense built around Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Jose Reyes, Jason Kubel, and Delmon Young (maybe he can change his name to "Jelmon", perhaps?), they by-golly, I think it will be a fun little team to watch.

While there is a chance that this trade will be a huge boon for both teams, based on the unpredictable nature of prospects there is a very real chance that there is a clear winner 5 years from now.  When the trade was originally announced (with Rincon included rather than Morlan), I thought the Twins had an excellent chance of coming out ahead.  As it is now, I prefer it slightly for the Rays.  The fact is, this is a trade that fans have been clamoring for for a while--trade an excess pitcher for a true impact bat--and it is nice to see Billy Smith step up and get it done.

Now, we just need to hope that Delmon Young turns out to be the perennial All Star that he has the potential to be.  And he stops throwing bats at people.  That would be nice, too.

[DutchFan2004]

There really needs to be a salary cap in professional baseball.  Santana wanting 120 M for 5 years?  No need to rehash the A-Rod lunacy.   No wonder small market teams are at a disadvantage.  Some formal anti-trust action needs to be taken up, too.   

Throwing out a question here.  If that team can afford to pay that kind of salary then why shouln't the players get it?  I don't think that a team no matter where they are can continue to be in the red paying players.  The Yanks have a huge payroll and they did not win it all this year.  Paying money out for players is not the answer.  Getting performance out of them is.  Isn't that why the Twins have the Championships they have.  It wasn't due to how much money they spent.  Yes good players come out of MN in search of more money but IMO when they get a huge contract they seem to think they have arrived and they lose as ROCKY would say or should I say Apollo THE EYE OF THE TIGER.  They don't seem to give it all any more cause they have that safety net of a fat contract.  I would take 9 hungry above average guys that 9 overpaid great players any day.  The hungry ones want those fat contracts and they will give you more effort in the end.