FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sfury]

Yeah, I see the argument as far as all of college football, but it's not like they're trying to beat Oklahoma with players the Sooners have deemed unworthy of being D1 (the Gophers...that could be another story). It's just hard to consider the Raiders and Johnnies as plucky underdogs beating the system.

I think you and TC may be talking (or posting) past each other.  TC's point is that the A's benefited from working a system that let scraps fall through, and that MUC and the J's gain a similar benefit from another system that lets scraps fall through.

Your point is that the J's and MUC are not the A's in that they are not playing the system to compete at the highest level.

Obviously, both points are true.  But I would note that one offers substantive insight into 'the nature of things'  while the other doesn't.

But the point of Moneyball is that the A's are competing against the teams who give them those scraps. Since the Johnnies and Raiders aren't doing that, that's why I don't think the comparison works. That was my unsubstantive point     

That, and I think we're stretching a bit in trying to give credit for the way SJU and Mount gets their great players.

[Knightstalker]

Let me put on my flame retardant suit here!

I think that many of you are looking at this through the eyes of someone coming from a historically middle/upper middle class family. What about bright students coming from historically low income families. What happens to them? It is becoming more and more challenging for state schools to meet the cost of attendance with federal aid for even these students and they don't have mom and dad's "middle income" to help out. Should they just be thrown under the bus while we wait for colleges to lower their tuition cost?  8)

Historically college was only a possibility for white, upper class males. The GI Bill and the Higher Education Act of 1965 opened the door to a whole new group of students but rising costs and diminishing support (both to state schools and financial aid programs) is starting to close that door!

Actually lower income students do better receiving financial aid than the middle class students, at least in NJ they do.  They are eligible for state and federal grants that the middle class are not eligible for.

[DutchFan2004]

Let me put on my flame retardant suit here!

I think that many of you are looking at this through the eyes of someone coming from a historically middle/upper middle class family. What about bright students coming from historically low income families. What happens to them? It is becoming more and more challenging for state schools to meet the cost of attendance with federal aid for even these students and they don't have mom and dad's "middle income" to help out. Should they just be thrown under the bus while we wait for colleges to lower their tuition cost?  8)

Historically college was only a possibility for white, upper class males. The GI Bill and the Higher Education Act of 1965 opened the door to a whole new group of students but rising costs and diminishing support (both to state schools and financial aid programs) is starting to close that door!

I think you will see a new "crisis" in our future.  I think that the health care or the correct term should be health insurance crisis is minor compared to the college tuition crisis coming.  i think that you will see before long a movement to freeze the cost of college by either the states or Federal govt.  Unless the limit the costs it will continue to rise.  Iowa just raised the smallest amount since Reagan I believe at 3.2%.  If they don't keep the increases small or smaller than that I think there will be a huge train wreck coming.

[OzJohnnie]

Well, let's hope I can respond with a bit of passion, but still limit the heat.  Odds are pretty good there will be no agreement on this so the risk of offense is not worth the returns of being overly argumentative (see, just as with tuition and debt, it's a judgment call ).

I would like to think that my background (be it modest or not) would not limit my ability to speak accurately.  But more importantly, I never argued for or against government assistance for college tuitions.  In fact, as I was a significant beneficiary of Pell grants and guaranteed student loans you could say that position would be inconsistent with my personal experience.

I merely argued that as a policy tool, micro-economic government initiatives are doomed to short term benefit followed by longer term consequences that far outweigh the initial pluses.  Refer to Nixon and the mid-70's price controls followed by hyper-inflation, or medicare/medicaide followed by years of highly inflating health care costs.  And now we can look forward to the arch-conservative (Ha! Not!) Bush's efforts to artificially control the sub-prime market.  All I'll say is get out while the getting's good.

[OzJohnnie]

That was my unsubstantive point     

Ah, you caught me being unfair and snarky.  +k.

[bennie]

Actually lower income students do better receiving financial aid than the middle class students, at least in NJ they do.  They are eligible for state and federal grants that the middle class are not eligible for.

You are right, low income students do receive more grant aid. The problem is that grant aid and federal loan increases are not keeping up with tuition increases.  The Pell grant increased $260 this year from last year (it had stayed the same for the three prior years). The Perkins loan program is no longer being federally funded so many schools have been force to drop out of the program (some schools still have them because of the size of their previous portfolio). The yearly loan limits for Stafford loans increased this year for the first time in 20+ years! They went from $2625 to $3500 for freshmen and $3500 to $4500 for sophomores. They didn't increase for juniors and seniors!! It ain't pretty.

[bennie]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=quiz/071207

Ah, the UO uniforms take another shot...

[tmerton]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=quiz/071207

Ah, the UO uniforms take another shot...

You say that like it's a bad thing.  Honestly, the U of O uniforms were significantly uglier than the Beavers' last week - and that wasn't easy to do.

[bennie]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=quiz/071207

Ah, the UO uniforms take another shot...

You say that like it's a bad thing.  Honestly, the U of O uniforms were significantly uglier than the Beavers' last week - and that wasn't easy to do.

That is true. It is hard to heckle the Beaver fans about it being Halloween 365 days a year when we are sporting those uniforms! That is what happens when you sell your soul to Phil Knight!

[DustySJU]

Chuck Moore was 6'1" 210?  My memory must be getting foggy.  I thought he was more Kmic's size.  He was without a doubt the best running back I ever played against, though.  And he seemed like a nice guy, too (of course, he was monkey-stomping us at that point  ).

Even I have Nate Kmic size.... it's best utilized while Duffman leads interference back to the keg.

[Redtooth]

Chuck Moore was 6'1" 210?  My memory must be getting foggy.  I thought he was more Kmic's size.  He was without a doubt the best running back I ever played against, though.  And he seemed like a nice guy, too (of course, he was monkey-stomping us at that point  ).

Even I have Nate Kmic size.... it's best utilized while Duffman leads interference back to the keg.

I guarantee that Kmic looks better/more athletic in UnderArmour than you do however  8) 8) 8)  5'9" 190 at age 21/22 does not = 5'9" 190 at age 45

[DustySJU]

Chuck Moore was 6'1" 210?  My memory must be getting foggy.  I thought he was more Kmic's size.  He was without a doubt the best running back I ever played against, though.  And he seemed like a nice guy, too (of course, he was monkey-stomping us at that point  ).

Even I have Nate Kmic size.... it's best utilized while Duffman leads interference back to the keg.

I guarantee that Kmic looks better/more athletic in UnderArmour than you do however  8) 8) 8)  5'9" 190 at age 21/22 does not = 5'9" 190 at age 45

You're all over me tooth.... at least I'm still awake.... appears everyone else has gone to sleep.

Coach Johnson goes long once again on AM 1500... they should have the podcast up shortly. 

Developing....

[OzJohnnie]

BTW, I saw that TDT mentioned the KQ morning show a couple pages back.  I listen to the pod cast, but haven't had time to catch every day the last week.  Is Brad Blanks back from his visit to his folks yet?

I was returning from Hong Kong two weeks ago and ran into him in the Melbourne airport.  His folks live about three hours north of Melbourne in country Victoria.  He was stunned to find a KQ listener in Oz.  I was stunned to see him.

[The White Silly]

Hello Post Patterns.  I'm ok, USA.  I like Bethel tomorrow 29-26.  I will be home tomorrow at my folks place in Larimore, ND and participating in three things: 1) Counting my money 2) Watching Powerteam Videos 3) Listening to the Bethel vs. Ohio State game...good times...itsgood, itsgood (chevy)

[Klopenhiemer]

Hello Post Patterns.  I'm ok, USA.  I like Bethel tomorrow 29-26.  I will be home tomorrow at my folks place in Larimore, ND and participating in three things: 1) Counting my money 2) Watching Powerteam Videos 3) Listening to the Bethel vs. Ohio State game...good times...itsgood, itsgood (chevy)

TWS...If I had your money I would burn mine