FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[johnnie_esq]

I doubt the Bethel faithful will be able to fill up all the seats and sideline areas prior to the johnnie fans being let in. 

I agree.
Bethel fans are not equal to SJU fans in that when the team is down, they don't show up in mass to support them.  That's something unique about SJU that I think every program wishes they had.

Not sure you can adequately gage how SJU fans would react to a losing season since we have not had one since 1967.

My thoughts were more towards 2004, when they weren't going to be headed to the playoffs, I saw the game against UST, and there were still plenty of fans there.  The trend at bethel has been that once a MIAC title is off of the table, attendance drops significantly.

USTD is a different story because of the rivalry.  Even in 1997, when we went 6-4 the USTD game drew 12,145.  The average attendance for the other four home games that year was 5,300.

That 1997 game was at the Metrodome.  I am glad we don't play there anymore.

AO, SJU has permanent bleachers for about 1500-2000 for its visitors and did bring in several smaller bleachers for overflow crowd that were set up along the BC sideline for that game in 2003 that maybe sat another 250-500-- The temporary seating at SJU in '03 can be clearly shown on the DVD of that game. I'd be glad to make you a copy of it if you want to relive that experience!  

In contrast, there wasn't enough seating for even 1000 SJU fans last year in Arden Hills, and most of the "temporary" seats were 20 yards back from the sideline, meaning people were better off standing on the sideline and watching there without the seating.   If the BU AD thought that would be enough, he would be crazy and/or ignorant.  However, he could also have been smart, as the costs for the game would have been significantly less without putting up temporary seating-- yet revenue would not change.  But I thought that BU was above SJU's money-grubbing ways?

Esq,

I see your point and recognize the seating wasn't perfect.  Before the game in 2005 at Bethel I had many discussions with the AD about adding seating and even offered to pay for some of it out of my budget.  However we discovered that we can actually get more people into the grounds to see the game without having temporary bleachers then when we do.  Many people have to stand 5 or 6 people deep but at least they are there.  Plus there really isn't much room to add bleachers around the field.

I know your efforts.

But there is a point of marginal return-- when people are standing so deep around the field and unable to see the game, are you really selling them value or just taking their money?

I am not claiming SJU is innocent in this matter-- I am just noting that, at least on the SJU side, the "bowl" allows for overflow crowd as well to accommodate a larger crowd so that value is at least increased.  That BU doesn't have the same natural advantage isn't its fault, but by the same token....doesn't that mitigate in favor of the increased seating?  

I think we all agree that the problem could be remedied by more permanent visitor seating-- at least SJU's is reasonably sized for visitors (and SJU has even increased their temporary bleachers AGAIN this fall) but BU's is dreadfully small for SJU games and, I suspect, is at capacity for most visitors.  That being said, I think it is disingenuous to expect that either school's fans pay their money as visitors and be expected to stand 5-6 or even 1-2 deep and not see the game if there is space open on the main grandstand.  I wouldn't fault any visitors for doing that at SJU-- however, it wouldn't really happen at SJU with all the reserved seating.  

It all comes down to cost. {sigh}  That either school doesn't want to bear it is its perogative...however, the opposing school has good claim to b!tch about it-- full knowing that they have no rights to get it fixed.

Last we chatted you were telling me about some upgrades to the SRC at BU-- will those include a full football facility overhaul as well? [edit-- looks like you answered that below...I didn't think BU was that hurting for donors with the new student center coming up right now]

[Freebird]

In all honesty, why should the home team care about visitor seating? Maybe a few more bucks if visitor fans knew they would have a seat, but more hostile fans, or less problems in the home team's seating area with invading visitor fans. But, why not spread out the visiting fans as much as possible, you have less concentrated noise from their area.
Does any DIII field have enough visitor stands for the truly big games, rivalry or conference championship games?

I actually completely agree with you and think that is a great point.  After last years game I remember questioning why so few SJU students came and why they weren't louder.  I was told tons of them did come, they just weren't all in the same area.

[ritz72]

In all honesty, why should the home team care about visitor seating? Maybe a few more bucks if visitor fans knew they would have a seat, but more hostile fans, or less problems in the home team's seating area with invading visitor fans. But, why not spread out the visiting fans as much as possible, you have less concentrated noise from their area.
Does any DIII field have enough visitor stands for the truly big games, rivalry or conference championship games?

Yes they should!  Your largest % of game day revenues come from visitor ticket sales and concessions.  It also adds to the overall atmosphere of the stadium.  ANY school with recent updates to their football facilities has included an upgrade for visiting bleachers. (The "if you build it they will come" mentality).  

[Rugman]

In all honesty, why should the home team care about visitor seating? Maybe a few more bucks if visitor fans knew they would have a seat, but more hostile fans, or less problems in the home team's seating area with invading visitor fans. But, why not spread out the visiting fans as much as possible, you have less concentrated noise from their area.
Does any DIII field have enough visitor stands for the truly big games, rivalry or conference championship games?

I agree zip that there is no obligation to supply the demand...but if you can't accommodate the supply set a limit up front and set up a will call table.

[ritz72]

In all honesty, why should the home team care about visitor seating? Maybe a few more bucks if visitor fans knew they would have a seat, but more hostile fans, or less problems in the home team's seating area with invading visitor fans. But, why not spread out the visiting fans as much as possible, you have less concentrated noise from their area.
Does any DIII field have enough visitor stands for the truly big games, rivalry or conference championship games?

I actually completely agree with you and think that is a great point.  After last years game I remember questioning why so few SJU students came and why they weren't louder.  I was told tons of them did come, they just weren't all in the same area.

THen, word gets out, things get organized, and pretty soon people start going where there is room

[Freebird]

I doubt the Bethel faithful will be able to fill up all the seats and sideline areas prior to the johnnie fans being let in. 

I agree.
Bethel fans are not equal to SJU fans in that when the team is down, they don't show up in mass to support them.  That's something unique about SJU that I think every program wishes they had.

Not sure you can adequately gage how SJU fans would react to a losing season since we have not had one since 1967.

My thoughts were more towards 2004, when they weren't going to be headed to the playoffs, I saw the game against UST, and there were still plenty of fans there.  The trend at bethel has been that once a MIAC title is off of the table, attendance drops significantly.

USTD is a different story because of the rivalry.  Even in 1997, when we went 6-4 the USTD game drew 12,145.  The average attendance for the other four home games that year was 5,300.

That 1997 game was at the Metrodome.  I am glad we don't play there anymore.

AO, SJU has permanent bleachers for about 1500-2000 for its visitors and did bring in several smaller bleachers for overflow crowd that were set up along the BC sideline for that game in 2003 that maybe sat another 250-500-- The temporary seating at SJU in '03 can be clearly shown on the DVD of that game. I'd be glad to make you a copy of it if you want to relive that experience!  

In contrast, there wasn't enough seating for even 1000 SJU fans last year in Arden Hills, and most of the "temporary" seats were 20 yards back from the sideline, meaning people were better off standing on the sideline and watching there without the seating.   If the BU AD thought that would be enough, he would be crazy and/or ignorant.  However, he could also have been smart, as the costs for the game would have been significantly less without putting up temporary seating-- yet revenue would not change.  But I thought that BU was above SJU's money-grubbing ways?

Esq,

I see your point and recognize the seating wasn't perfect.  Before the game in 2005 at Bethel I had many discussions with the AD about adding seating and even offered to pay for some of it out of my budget.  However we discovered that we can actually get more people into the grounds to see the game without having temporary bleachers then when we do.  Many people have to stand 5 or 6 people deep but at least they are there.  Plus there really isn't much room to add bleachers around the field.

I know your efforts.

But there is a point of marginal return-- when people are standing so deep around the field and unable to see the game, are you really selling them value or just taking their money?

I am not claiming SJU is innocent in this matter-- I am just noting that, at least on the SJU side, the "bowl" allows for overflow crowd as well to accommodate a larger crowd so that value is at least increased.  That BU doesn't have the same natural advantage isn't its fault, but by the same token....doesn't that mitigate in favor of the increased seating?  

I think we all agree that the problem could be remedied by more permanent visitor seating-- at least SJU's is reasonably sized for visitors (and SJU has even increased their temporary bleachers AGAIN this fall) but BU's is dreadfully small for SJU games and, I suspect, is at capacity for most visitors.  That being said, I think it is disingenuous to expect that either school's fans pay their money as visitors and be expected to stand 5-6 or even 1-2 deep and not see the game if there is space open on the main grandstand.  I wouldn't fault any visitors for doing that at SJU-- however, it wouldn't really happen at SJU with all the reserved seating.  

It all comes down to cost. {sigh}  That either school doesn't want to bear it is its perogative...however, the opposing school has good claim to b!tch about it-- full knowing that they have no rights to get it fixed.

Last we chatted you were telling me about some upgrades to the SRC at BU-- will those include a full football facility overhaul as well? [edit-- looks like you answered that below...I didn't think BU was that hurting for donors with the new student center coming up right now]

The new student center ate up about 40 million and as it turned out most of the donors earmarked their money for that, opposed to the SRC/football upgrades.

[johnnie_esq]

In all honesty, why should the home team care about visitor seating? Maybe a few more bucks if visitor fans knew they would have a seat, but more hostile fans, or less problems in the home team's seating area with invading visitor fans. But, why not spread out the visiting fans as much as possible, you have less concentrated noise from their area.
Does any DIII field have enough visitor stands for the truly big games, rivalry or conference championship games?

The Jake is huge.  Really big.  And the Perk, especially if they were to go back and finish the visitors' side according to plan, would be enormous.  There are several WIAC stadiums that have around 10k seating as well.  That wouldn't fill some of the bigger games at SJU, but would at least make comfortable seating for most people at at SJU-BU tilt.

And there is always the Fargodome.

Plus, pretty soon we may be able to use TCF Bank Stadium!

[sju56321]

71-that makes sense, let the visiting fans know that only "X" number of people can be seated and the rest will have to stand. We sort of found out this information when we played UWW the first time, asked their posters how many could fit in the visitor stands.
Ritzy: Sure money is a factor, more fans more revenue, but I was looking at it from a home team perspective in terms of advantage on the field. You could cut ticket prices if you wanted more people and hope they buy concessions.
Esq- but Perkins Stadium has the giant number of seats on the home side and I thought we were trying to avoid having the visitor fans on the home side. Also, wasn't Perkins Stadium constructed with a DII setting in mind?

[CCKnight]

Or they could just not charge admission like the kind folks at Carleton, but obviously that doesn't fly everywhere.  Also there's always plenty of seating , thankfully with some improvement by the team the last few years the crowds are getting a little bigger.

[tmerton]

If there aren't enough seats for visiting fans, those fans will try to sit wherever they can find seats available.  That happens everywhere and at every level; it should be expected by the home team. 

I have never heard of a school keeping visiting fans out while they let their own in.  If you want to have a student section where only your students sit, that's fine.  But I gather that's not quite what Bethel does.  Or you could have reserved seats, but I gather that's not the case either.

This will be my first visit to Bethel.  I'm looking forward to the game but not so much to the seat competition.

[DustySJU]

Does anyone know what Bethel's re-entry policy is?  If we get there at 10:00 to garner some seats, can we leave to go to the SF and then get back in?

The student ticket takers made a bit of a stink about early re-entry nearly requesting fans pay twice.  I think we just started to ignore them about the whole deal.  The real kicker is they allow the Bethel students in well ahead of visiting Johnnie fans to grab their seats.... that really steamed us.

Bethel insists on not providing extra bleachers so get there early....

On the up side Bethel does have a nice little tailgate area near the SoHo lot that has been approved for "Johnnie" use.

Developing....

This is because Johnnie fans show very little respect and try to sit in the student section.  We don't do that at your stadium so why should you be allowed to do it at ours?  

FreeBird;  You're sounding like a politician who thinks nothing about the truthfulness or accuracy of your statements.  I've heard and seen many things however I've never, and I mean I've never seen Johnnie fans attempting to steal Bethel seating.  

So what if they did?  

Maybe you could get your AD to spring for a couple of bleachers so fans could actually see the game.  It doesn't seem to be a problem at St. John's and certainly provided the great success your team has had against St. John's and in the DIII playoffs maybe someone in charge could do a little planning.

Your trite little comment is complete drivel.

Did you steal that line from Dumbo and just replace the part about elaphants flying to "Johnnies fans attempting to steal seats?"  I have seen it and at the time I respectfully asked those folks to move to a different section.  Some did, some didnt.

Maybe you haven't been to the Bethel games at SJU and if that is the case I forgive your ignorance.  However the ones I have been to provided inadequate seating for us, the visiting team.
It is just the way it is in our conference become I'm sure most of the time when teams come to SJU or Bethel they struggle to fill the small amount of seating there actually is.

You've got to be kidding me... inadequate seating?  Please.

[ritz72]

71-that makes sense, let the visiting fans know that only "X" number of people can be seated and the rest will have to stand. We sort of found out this information when we played UWW the first time, asked their posters how many could fit in the visitor stands.
Ritzy: Sure money is a factor, more fans more revenue, but I was looking at it from a home team perspective in terms of advantage on the field. You could cut ticket prices if you wanted more people and hope they buy concessions.
Esq- but Perkins Stadium has the giant number of seats on the home side and I thought we were trying to avoid having the visitor fans on the home side. Also, wasn't Perkins Stadium constructed with a DII setting in mind?

Even in a huge game with over capacity in an outdoor DIII football game, believe me, the crowd noise does not really matter.  On the field, it is background noise.  Listen to any interview with players and they will always say, "It's nice to be at home, but we have to take care of business on the field " the only people the crowd effects is the 3rd and 4th stringers who are waving towels.  

[BDB]

Even in a huge game with over capacity in an outdoor DIII football game, believe me, the crowd noise does not really matter.  On the field, it is background noise.  Listen to any interview with players and they will always say, "It's nice to be at home, but we have to take care of business on the field " the only people the crowd effects is the 3rd and 4th stringers who are waving towels.  

Great point ritzy. +k  Hell, +k's all around, it's Friday!  8)

[ritz72]

So...

I'm sitting in my office, working as hard as I usually do, and a student comes in.  Seems that one of our SPED teachers (Special Ed) sent him down to claim his award for being the smartest kid in his class.  Meaning, I just gave a kid an award for being the smartest kid in special ed!!

There is a reason we are not on AYP!!!

The Macallan 18 and the Laphroaig are loaded in the car ready to be consumed by yours truly during Bennie Night Out and the wedding tomorrow.  Sadly, this is not going to be a LIttle Falls Ballroom affair where I can bring my own, but, as I am always thinking, the flask is cleaned and ready to go!

[BDB]

Ritz, I miss your updates on the crazy guy that used to live outside your office window. 

I suppose the Walgreen's or whatever it is isn't near as interesting as a guy on his roof in January pouring water down his chimney.