FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[TC]

And, of course, I'm retarded.  I totally blanked on Ellis hurting his shoulder late in the year--he had surgery on his right (throwing) labrum and is hoping to be back by Spring Training.  I could see the Twins giving him a one- or two-year shot, a la Adam Everett, but this certainly makes him far less certain than he was heading into '07.  Still, a risk I hope the Twins take, but I think this might be too close to Tony Batista/Rondell White/Craig Monroe/Mike Lamb/Adam Everett-territory for most Twins fans.

[chewey]

Take Jimmy G, please.   Maybe the Twins could get Casey Blake back.  He'd be the third base constant that they're looking for and he has a good bat.  I wonder what the Dodgers would want for him.  They probably already gave up a king's ransom to Cleveland to get him though.  In addition, CC Sabathia will be up too.  I don't know if Milwaukee is going to spend the money to keep him.  I am fairly certain that Pohlad will be tight with the purse strings again. 

[The White Silly]

I'd like to maybe see the twins sign a Mark Grudzielanek/Mark Loretta type middle infielder...maybe a Fernando Tatis at the hot corner....and heck, why not Danny Almonte for middle relief....if we can't get those guys maybe Aaron Boone...hey, wait, where's Bret Boone?

[janesvilleflash]

Anyone think the financial situation will make a difference how sports team owners spend this coming year?

[57Johnnie]

I think the Twins should take a run at Garrett Atkins.
He will always average about .300 with about 25HR & 100 Rbis and play very steady 3rd.
Can also play 1st and has played a little OF & 2nd.
Rocks would probably want a pitcher for him, however.  8)

[Touchdown Tommy]

Closed Circuit to 57: Take off your CoRockies blinders.  Take a look at Adkins Home/Road Splits.  Case Closed.  Thanks for playing.  In the future, please leave the baseball chatter to the professionals.

Flash atta baby.  Excellent Q to ponder (is your local watering hole closed today?).  Are the Professional Sports Team owners more concerned with their outside businesses/personal portfolios in a bubble (lets face it these fellas made their fortunes in something else before being afforded the opportunity to purchase a team) or do they lump all the investments together? 

We all know that sports is the world's greatest distraction from all the problems/issues of day-to-day life.  So it is leisure spending, but I have to believe that Americans (as deranged as we are) will continue to scratch and claw for the extra Dead Presidents to be able to attend their favorite concert or local sporting event.  Now how frequently they do this becomes the overriding issue.  If revenues continue to increase and set records virtually across the US Professional Sporting landscape, do payrolls continue to escalate at a similar rate?  Touchdown T could go on and on...

[sjusection105]

Anyone think the financial situation will make a difference how sports team owners spend this coming year?

Aren't these the same guys (some of them) that are getting bailed out by us   

[BDB]

I'd like to maybe see the twins sign a Mark Grudzielanek/Mark Loretta type middle infielder...maybe a Fernando Tatis at the hot corner....and heck, why not Danny Almonte for middle relief....if we can't get those guys maybe Aaron Boone...hey, wait, where's Bret Boone?

How about adding Daniel Boone.....

  and a new owner in T. Boone Pickens.

+

Make the dome into a very large wind generator.

[Knightstalker]

I'd like to maybe see the twins sign a Mark Grudzielanek/Mark Loretta type middle infielder...maybe a Fernando Tatis at the hot corner....and heck, why not Danny Almonte for middle relief....if we can't get those guys maybe Aaron Boone...hey, wait, where's Bret Boone?

How about adding Daniel Boone.....

  and a new owner in T. Boone Pickens.

+

Make the dome into a very large wind generator.

All joking aside, making a stadium a wind generator might work in some areas.  Ring the new Giants and Jets stadium with windmills and it could probably provide a lot of the power that the stadium uses.

[janesvilleflash]

How about



Boone's Farm

[57Johnnie]

Closed Circuit to 57: Take off your CoRockies blinders.  Take a look at Adkins Home/Road Splits.  Case Closed.  Thanks for playing.  In the future, please leave the baseball chatter to the professionals.

If you ONLY look at average you are right  ---- however -------for at least the last 2 years

HR- home 19   away 27
RBI - home 108  away 102
He produces on the road too  

As to who is professional..................
I didn't lose a case of Hamms on baseball  

NOW the case is closed  

[TC]

57, Atkins came up in discussion around the trade deadline, in comparison to Adrian Beltre:

Some numbers of note:

Garrett Atkins, Career (2003-2008):
Home:  .338/.396/.532/.928 OPS, +19% better than league
Road:  .268/.336/.434/.770 OPS, -18% worse than league
Currently 28, signed through 2008 at $4.3875MM


Adrian Beltre, Career (1998-2008):
Home:  .252/.313/.420/.733 OPS, -13% worse than league
Road:  .288/.340/.494/.834 OPS,  +12% better than league
Currently 29, signed through 2009 at $12MM and $12MM, with no trade clause excluding 8 teams

Atkins has had the luxury of playing his home games in the best hitters park (Coors) this side of the moon and has taken advantage of it.  Conversely, Beltre has played his home games in two of the worst hitters park in baseball, Dodgers Stadium and Safeco, and has seen his numbers suffer accordingly.  While the difference probably isn't as large as it seems, I think it is instructive to look at the players' road numbers:  pedestrian batting averages, roughly league average OBPs, but Beltre has a sizable advantage in slugging percentage. 

Away from Coors, Atkins has essentially performed at about the same level that could be expected from Brian Buscher for the rest of this season (who's at .333/.363/.467, but take about 30 points off of each unless you really think he is a potential batting champion...  Hint: he's not.).  It is beneficial that both Atkins and Beltre are right handed, but I think Beltre provides a potentially dramatic improvement over the existing situation, while Atkins may only be a marginal upgrade.

Then you have defense to consider:  in each of his 3 full seasons, Atkins has made less plays per 9 innings at 3B than the average NL thirdbaseman--it would be rather generous to describe him as anything more than average.  He also provides marginal benefit by being able to spot at 1B and LF, but those aren't exactly positions where the Twins are hurting.  Beltre, on the other hand, has made more plays than his fellow 3B in every one of his full seasons to date and was the AL's Gold Glove winner at 3B in 2007.  According to both scouts and statistics, he is considered a good-to-great defensive thirdbaseman.

That leaves one question unanswered:  the acquisition cost.  The year and a half that Beltre has on his contract at $12M per is not outrageous for a player of his calibre (compared to, say, Andruw Jones at 2/$36M, Gary Matthews, Jr. at 5/$55, Jose Guillen at 3/$36M, or Barry Zito at 18/$9098093740897098273408917234M).  If the Twins expect the Mariners to part with Beltre AND pick up a substantial portion of the tab, his price tag will be high--value-wise, probably close to what the Mets paid for Santana.  Otherwise, the Twins will be asked to take on a pretty sizable salary, something they aren't likely to do.

Atkins will be arbitration eligible again next year, and should command a salary of about $7M-$9M.  While he isn't as valuable a commodity over the next couple years as Beltre, the Rockies aren't necessarily as interested in rebuilding as the Mariners.  I'd imagine it would cost a few decent prospects to pry Atkins loose.

Lost in the discussion is that fact that (at least offensively) the Twins can expect pretty decent production for the rest of the year from the Buscher/Lamb duo.  (I know Lamb has sucked thus far, but I thought signing him was a pretty shrewd move by the Twins and I expect him to contribute a little down the stretch.)  Granted, neither will ever be a star, but at least they will be relatively cheap for next few years.

I'm afraid Atkins wouldn't represent enough of a marginal improvement on the current situation and I'd hate to see the Twins mortgage their future for a year and a half of Beltre, especially since they weren't planning on contending for a couple more years anyway.  I'd hold off on a deal if I were them.

In retrospect, had the Twins traded for either Atkins or Beltre at the deadline without touching the current roster, there's a very good chance they would have played more than 163 games this year. 

Still, going forward, I don't like the idea of trading for either of the players.  In Atkins' case, he's  a non-elite player who provides a marginal improvement over what we've got and--worst of all--he's about to get expensive in a hurry.

[57Johnnie]

57, Atkins came up in discussion around the trade deadline, in comparison to Adrian Beltre:

Once again, you are only looking at average. He produces a lot of runs on the road. He will be expensive, however. If it weren't for the fact that the Rocks are loaded with young infielders besides Tulo like Stewart, Baker & Barmes, he wouldn't even be available. As it is, if Helton doesn't respond, they may take him off the market and shop only Holliday & Fuentes. Ian Stewart will play 3rd.

[Touchdown Tommy]

TC do you wanna take this one or should I? 

...Average?  Did I mention average?  Time to get in the 21st century old man.  There are far better measures of a ballplayers attributes then his batting average (OPS, WPA, VORP...).  If you want to keep going I am willing.  You are calling for a beatdown from the baseball authorities.  The little Hannah Montana, Redenbachers "jokes" don't fly if you want to start talking ball with the big boys...

[DutchFan2004]

I can see that this will be a long fall and winter on this board.  All this baseball talk.