FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[retagent]

I'm not getting into this one. I just learned what OPS is about a month ago.

Ritz _ I was under the impression you didn't like hockey. Now I find out it's the NHL that crushes your cherries. Never mind.

[Knightstalker]

TC do you wanna take this one or should I? 

...Average?  Did I mention average?  Time to get in the 21st century old man.  There are far better measures of a ballplayers attributes then his batting average (OPS, WPA, VORP...).  If you want to keep going I am willing.  You are calling for a beatdown from the baseball authorities.  The little Hannah Montana, Redenbachers "jokes" don't fly if you want to start talking ball with the big boys...

Forget the stats watch the games.  The stats say A-Rod is a better hitter than Manny.  Who do you want at the plate when the game or season is on the line?

[TC]

57, I can assure you I am considering more than just batting average, I just have a distinct feeling that the readers of this forum don't much care about MLVr or VORP. 

The fact is, a 3B that hits .233 AVG/.278 OBP/.383 SLG on the road, like he did in 2008, is simply a marginal major leaguer, even if he does hit 12 HRs on the road and only 9 at home.  Even more troubling is that he only hit .265 AVG/.302 OBP/.408 SLG against righthanders in 2008 (507 plate appearances vs. 157 against LHP).  If he were free, he'd make a terriffic platoon partner for Brian Buscher.  Of course he's not free, either in terms of salary or trade consideration.

Speaking of horrible stats, HRs and RBIs can be pretty misleading, too.  One recent Twins 3B "solution" had a 41 HR, 114 RBI-season and a 32-HR, 110-RBI season (in his last MLB stint prior to joining the Twins)on his resume.  Of course, he couldn't recognize a strike to save his life, had lost virtually all the range that made him a decent SS only a handful of years earlier, and was slower than an SCSU student at midterm time.  Even though Tony Batista had nice enough looking "counting" stats, he just wasn't that special of a ballplayer (even before he tried to play here with a massive fork sticking out of his back).  I'm afraid, with a healthy dose of Coors Field magic to help his numbers, Garrett Atkins falls into the same category.

[TC]

Forget the stats watch the games.  The stats say A-Rod is a better hitter than Manny.  Who do you want at the plate when the game or season is on the line?

OMG, PLEASE don't get me started on this one.  I had about a 100 page back-and-forth with a buddy about this, starting with who was a better hitter and morphing into who was/is a better all-around player (I still say A-Rod wins both, the second far more convincingly). 

[Pat Coleman]

I love baseball and even I don't care about VORP. And I first heard about Value Over Replacement Player when the term "replacement player" was a little more confusing.

[Knightstalker]

Forget the stats watch the games.  The stats say A-Rod is a better hitter than Manny.  Who do you want at the plate when the game or season is on the line?

OMG, PLEASE don't get me started on this one.  I had about a 100 page back-and-forth with a buddy about this, starting with who was a better hitter and morphing into who was/is a better all-around player (I still say A-Rod wins both, the second far more convincingly). 

TC, A-Rod is definitely a better all round player, there aren't many in the majors better except for Pujols.  But in the post-season I would rather have Manny than A-Rod at the plate.  Manny is like Reggie once fall comes around.

The main point is I think too many people get wrapped up in all the Sabermetric stats.  These same stats indicated the Texas Rangers in the late 90's and the A's from the same period and into the 00's should easily handle the Yankees in a series, it didn't happen.  That is why I said you have to watch them play the games.  That is why I would rather have Jeter at short over a lot of fielders with better range and arms, but they are not better players.

Note:  I actually like A-Rod as a player and a Yankee but he is not good at the plate in the post-season, not the first great player with that problem or the last.  Too many Yankee fans forget he carried the team for half of the 07 season until other players got untracked.

[57Johnnie]

TC do you wanna take this one or should I? 

...Average?  Did I mention average?  Time to get in the 21st century old man.  There are far better measures of a ballplayers attributes then his batting average (OPS, WPA, VORP...).  If you want to keep going I am willing.  You are calling for a beatdown from the baseball authorities.  The little Hannah Montana, Redenbachers "jokes" don't fly if you want to start talking ball with the big boys...

Like I said........
I didn't lose a case of Hamms on baseball

[chewey]

Best Twins off-season move:  Get rid of Pohlad and get someone to own the team who is not afraid to pay a few more bucks to get a good, reliable right-handed power stoker to balance the left-hitting heavy twins lineup.  Also, spending a little to get good, quality middle-inning relief would be good. Get rid of Carl.

[TC]

Forget the stats watch the games.  The stats say A-Rod is a better hitter than Manny.  Who do you want at the plate when the game or season is on the line?

OMG, PLEASE don't get me started on this one.  I had about a 100 page back-and-forth with a buddy about this, starting with who was a better hitter and morphing into who was/is a better all-around player (I still say A-Rod wins both, the second far more convincingly). 

TC, A-Rod is definitely a better all round player, there aren't many in the majors better except for Pujols.  But in the post-season I would rather have Manny than A-Rod at the plate.  Manny is like Reggie once fall comes around.

The main point is I think too many people get wrapped up in all the Sabermetric stats.   These same stats indicated the Texas Rangers in the late 90's and the A's from the same period and into the 00's should easily handle the Yankees in a series, it didn't happen.  That is why I said you have to watch them play the games.  That is why I would rather have Jeter at short over a lot of fielders with better range and arms, but they are not better players.

Note:  I actually like A-Rod as a player and a Yankee but he is not good at the plate in the post-season, not the first great player with that problem or the last.  Too many Yankee fans forget he carried the team for half of the 07 season until other players got untracked.

I would argue that too many people get too wrapped up in small sample sizes--i.e., a postseason series or even a handful of them. 

My argument, essentially, was Manny and ARod are both among the elite pure hitters ever to play baseball, with ARod marginally better than Manny.  Once you factor in baserunning, defense, positional scarcity, durability, etc., it's still close but the gap widens in ARod's favor.  Complicating matters is the relatively unique context of Left Field in Fenway, both offensively for a righthander and defensively, and the fact that ARod was an elite defensive SS and only a mediocre 3B (though he got moved to third so a less-than-mediorce SS could stay at his position).  Complicating matters further, both my buddy and I are pretty big Manny fans and only lukewarm ARod admirers.

It's interesting that you mention Jeter at shortstop because our discussion went off on that tangent, too. 

Regarding who I would rather have in the postseason, I still think ARod's slight advantage over 7800+ regular season at bats is more important than Manny's advantage over 363 postseason at bats (and less than 150 for ARod).  Then again, I also don't think there's anything magical, besides the magic of variance, when it comes to "clutch" hitting.  But maybe we can hash that one out over on baseballprimer.com or sonsofsamhorn.com.

[57Johnnie]

ZIP,
Will you be at your regular seat on Sat?
I have a Special Olympics event and will be very late or not at all.  8)

[cobbernation]

UST...we're selling hope this year.

Bench,

Glad you joined the party again. That Law School thing must be complete now, huh??

Speaking of selling hope. Do you think the Tommie student body will ever pick supporting their football team vs. getting wasted? Being the largest enrollment in the MIAC your student body could actually give the Tomcats a home field advantage. Let them know they can get drunk and still show up for the game....we do 

Unfortunately I'm only a 2L right now...haven't reached ESQ status quite yet.

As for the student body getting drunk and not showing up for the game: SJU has their traditions we have ours. One game a year the seminarians show up in full force...for some reason this year they chose Macalester. Not sure why. I'd like to see it become more of a priority; and I think with Caruso generating some on-campus buzz I don't see why it'd be a big ordeal to roll out of their dorm room at noon, eat some scrambled eggs at the caf and walk the 50 yards to the stadium...

Unfortunately at UST the priorities are different on a Saturday afternoon for the typical student...

The Bennies hit up Costco for some Marlboro Reds, grab some Boones Farm and head for the woods to watch the game...

The Tommie girls go tanning, work on their abs, spend their father's money on J-Crew stuff and dote on the football team post game without having to participate in all of that painful school spirit stuff...

Let's be honest with ourselves here.

Aren't those seminars optional to attend?  I know the seminars at CC were optional, it was a time to sleep in, not go to class and get info on it from someone else!

Note to the Cobber:  a seminarian is a Catholic priest in training, as he attends seminary.  One who attends a seminar is an attendee.   

Good Call Esq.  I should read before I post next time.  I saw seminar and stopped reading afterwards!

[cobbernation]

I think the Twins should take a run at Garrett Atkins.
He will always average about .300 with about 25HR & 100 Rbis and play very steady 3rd.
Can also play 1st and has played a little OF & 2nd.
Rocks would probably want a pitcher for him, however.  8)

I wouldn't miss Jesse Crain!

[tmerton]

57, I can assure you I am considering more than just batting average, I just have a distinct feeling that the readers of this forum don't much care about MLVr or VORP. 

Or, in this corner, MLB.

[TC]

57, I can assure you I am considering more than just batting average, I just have a distinct feeling that the readers of this forum don't much care about MLVr or VORP. 

Or, in this corner, MLB.

Communist...

[tmerton]

57, I can assure you I am considering more than just batting average, I just have a distinct feeling that the readers of this forum don't much care about MLVr or VORP. 

Or, in this corner, MLB.

Communist...

Hey, I loved T-ball.  And Little League was fun (especially exciting when our coach took a swing at the other team's coach), and the all-star season was kinda fun, too (nothing like a walk off grand slam in the bottom of the 7th during the play-offs).  I also like the NCAA playoffs and College World Series.  But one Giants game a year is enough, even with a great stadium and spectacular views of the Bay.  The season is just too long - it's like the NHL and the NBA.  The World Series should be half over by now.