FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Wartburg Fan]

I am still perplexed as to why Kac walked away from Central a couple years back.....great guy with a great program.

I am not sure it was voluntary, if you catch my drift. It was billed as such but you know how things go.

I agree with Pat on this one as an outsider of the Central program they had down years after the 2000 season and as much as I hate to say this Central has a great program and those season were not  what they were use to. They have a great coach now and this year they are retooling. Now I have to go wash my mouth out with soap

[DuffMan]

Chewey, maybe you should take care of recruiting since you seem to know everything.

Do I detect an interpersonal connection with the team that serves as the genesis for this sort of "help me, I broke my crayon" sentiment? 

Wrong.  Just sick of people that never had the nuggets or talent to step on the field preaching like they know everything about the game and the inner workings of the SJU team.  I don't "coddle" the team at all.  I am, perhaps, more critical of them than most.

[chewey]

Chewey, maybe you should take care of recruiting since you seem to know everything.

Do I detect an interpersonal connection with the team that serves as the genesis for this sort of "help me, I broke my crayon" sentiment? 

Wrong.  Just sick of people that never had the nuggets or talent to step on the field preaching like they know everything about the game and the inner workings of the SJU team.  I don't "coddle" the team at all.  I am, perhaps, more critical of them than most.

Very nice.  I'm not going to get into a puerile "nuggets or talent" pissing match with you as your knowledge with either with respect to me or anyone would be quite limited.  Using your logic, I guess Jeff Dubay (formerly), most ESPN analysts, Pat Coleman, JT "the Brick" etc should not be doing their present activities.  There is something wrong this year with the program and there is a lot that is counter to what St. John's, as a school let alone a football program, has been that is probably not sitting well with prospective players or their parents.  It's obvious and one does not need to "know everything" or be familiar with the "inner workings of the SJU team" to recognize it.  If you're focusing on "nuggets and talent" as prerequisites to having the right to comment on the obvious, or on anything regarding the team as a fan for that matter, you have deeper concerns than a simple failure to recognize it.

[PRF07]

Unbelievable game in St. Paul yesterday.  Another heartbreaking loss for the knights.  They now have 2 losses in the last 2 weeks on the final plays of the game. 

If there is one thing to be said about this knight team it is that they know they are as good or better than anyone in this conference.  They'll shake off this loss really quick and come out to play hard each of the next 3 weeks.  It is anyone's guess as to who's going to come out on top of this conference in 3 weeks.

I think we've seen that anything can happen in this conference this year.  It seems that every week the games are coming down to the last plays.  It has been a lot of fun to watch, that much is for sure. 

[bennie]

Well, I will admit to being an SJU football fan without any "nuggets" or football skills! Maybe it is all the time I spend around Duck fans, but I think that sometimes Johnnie fans (myself included) behave like spoiled brats. There are many (many, many) teams out there that would be delighted to finish a season 7-3 or even 6-4. Heck, in D1, that could still get you into a bowl game. To blame SJU's season on recruiting seems unfair. Students will pick a school for all sorts of reasons. I have heard everything from academics to a "cute" admissions counselor influencing decisions. I would also point out that there are a lot of teams (in many sports) that have talent, but that doesn't mean that they will be successful. Think of how many underdogs have pulled off a victory when based on talent alone, they shouldn't have been able to. If putting together an effective, winning team was that easy, everyone would do it. I think it takes a combination of talent, experience, desire and probably some other things I don't even know about or couldn't put a name to. Those are not always easy to recruit for or readily apparent.

[Gig Harbor Cat]

OAS-- safe flight home my man

and yes you have our permission to wear your new CATDOME shirt around the MIAC

GHC

[OzJohnnie]

chewey;

What's the deal?  Is your objective to prove you dislike the down season more than anyone else?  To prove your the number one critic of the coaching?  Get in line.

If, on the other hand, your intent is demonstrating you're a "spoiled brat" (spot on, Bennie), then mission accomplished.  This "I'll hold my breath until I'm blue or everyone admits I'm right" approach of yours is just what the doctor ordered for the immaturity award you apparently covet.

And what to do?  You've got nothing other than this nihilistic anger and a prescription for the collapse of all culture and tradition and SJU.  What do you want?  Fire everybody?  Yeah, that will work.  Six National Championships in a row starting next year for sure.

I suggest you take a deep breath, spend a little time in the "time out" corner, and think if it could really be true that among all the fans of SJU you are the only one with this special little insight.  A little more calm and respect toward your fellow Johnnie travelers may do you the world of good.

[OzJohnnie]

If AK or Penz played any game like the QB's played yesterday this board would be on fire.

Where have you been?  Did you miss reading this board the first six weeks of the season?  This horse has been killed, beaten, beaten again, and stomped on until we're too tired to kick.

What's different this game from any other this year?  Nada.  So what remains to be said?  Same.

But I do think it's pretty amazing that of all the Johnnie supporters here you are the only one that noticed poor offensive play.

To all the others:  How come none of you bozo's care about the standard of play?  You're all pretenders.

[Foss]

Look at Linfield and PLU.  Two excellent programs that have hit the skids recently.  For PLU, it's been a very long ride in the tank.  Hopefully, Linfield will bounce back quickly.  I'd like to see them back at the top.  They got smoked today and I think it's been a very long time since a Linfield team has been beaten that badly.

Almost a decade, actually. Last D3 team to put a monkey stomp+ like that on the 'Cats was the '99 National Champ PLU squad 56-23. Don't think this year's Willamette team is quite the '99 PLU team, but they are pretty good with a dynamic offense (43/game). Cobbers probably know what I am talking about. Willamette game was actually 31-28 in the 4th and then the massacre ensued. I have to leave the board to go throw up some more now.

[chewey]

chewey;

What's the deal?  Is your objective to prove you dislike the down season more than anyone else?  To prove your the number one critic of the coaching?  Get in line.

If, on the other hand, your intent is demonstrating you're a "spoiled brat" (spot on, Bennie), then mission accomplished.  This "I'll hold my breath until I'm blue or everyone admits I'm right" approach of yours is just what the doctor ordered for the immaturity award you apparently covet.

And what to do?  You've got nothing other than this nihilistic anger and a prescription for the collapse of all culture and tradition and SJU.  What do you want?  Fire everybody?  Yeah, that will work.  Six National Championships in a row starting next year for sure.

I suggest you take a deep breath, spend a little time in the "time out" corner, and think if it could really be true that among all the fans of SJU you are the only one with this special little insight.  A little more calm and respect toward your fellow Johnnie travelers may do you the world of good.

Oh, that is rich.  We've all been used to success at St. John's regarding previous years and everyone wants that to continue.  The absence of logic and the breakdown of reading comprehension in your post is only exceeded by the apparent narcissism which motivated the inference that the expression of a point of view with which you disagree shows "disrespect" to "fellow Johnnie travelers." 

Have I insisted that everyone declare that I am right? No.  Have I advocated for the firing of the coaching staff?  No (and that is a particularly asinine presumption).  Did I say that the culture and tradition at SJU has collapsed?  No.  Did I indicate that I'm the only one who holds these views?  No. 

Believe it or not, without differing opinions there is something that's very valuable that is lost.  It's called discourse.  If the expression of a different point of view that tends to assault a collective ivory tower equanimity generates some sort of animus against me, that's fine and it's all part of the process.  I've probably been disliked  by good people for inane reasons before. 

My points are:

1.)  I believe there has been a diminution in the talent level at SJU over the past 3  years, particularly on the offensive line and, to a lesser degree, the defensive secondary.

2.)  SJU has probably lost and is probably losing many very good athletes because of its apparent "We're St. John's.  You come here if you come here" position which is being more keenly felt these days with more and more recruiting competition in the MIAC.

3.)  SJU is, in my opinion, doing some things that are exacerbating #2.  Namely, the pre-game glamor stuff (Does anyone really think that a kid from Fulda, MN is really going to be attracted to that sort of stuff.  Is any well-grounded kid who just wants to play football for the winningest college coach going to be impressed by it? I don't think so). 

4.)  In good years, maybe SJU should start putting in the 3rd, 4th, 5th strings in at the start or mid-way of the 3rd quarter to see who can do whatever so that the lean times are mitigated or do not come to pass.  In the most likely worst case scenario, you wind up winning a game by 20 instead of 45. 

Like it or not and whether it's true or not, there is a perceived "arrogance" about SJU that turns some kids away and that other MIAC coaches, no doubt, use quite deftly to their advantage.  To portray someone who dares express these possibilities as an uncharitable, unappreciative, puerile and dyspeptic gadfly only authenticates and verifies that it may not merely be a perception, at least as far as some participants on this board are concerned.  Kids go to schools for different reasons, it's true.  However, the attraction for St. John's is exactly because it has not been the hyper-glamor business for students and athletes.

[chewey]

If AK or Penz played any game like the QB's played yesterday this board would be on fire.

Where have you been?  Did you miss reading this board the first six weeks of the season?  This horse has been killed, beaten, beaten again, and stomped on until we're too tired to kick.

What's different this game from any other this year?  Nada.  So what remains to be said?  Same.

But I do think it's pretty amazing that of all the Johnnie supporters here you are the only one that noticed poor offensive play.

To all the others:  How come none of you bozo's care about the standard of play?  You're all pretenders.

Uh oh.  Justadad's really stepped in it now.  To actually make a comparison between this year's QB's and last (who were much better) and to insinuate that there would be more fire on the board if those better QB's played as poorly really is a clarion call to everyone that this fellow is the only one to have noticed poor offensive play. 

Standard of play?  They won the game for which I am grateful and for which I do, actually, give them credit.  The defense got held on virtually every down and it was not called; I get it.  Maybe SJU should have held more; they probably would have gotten away with it yesterday. 

All this makes Justadad a poseur?  As Spock would say, "fascinating."

[chewey]

Foss:  I guess I'll use understatement and say that I'm "surprised."  What's going on out there?  Are you not getting the Carter's, Matthew's, the David Russell's anymore? PLU as well.  One would have thought that there would not have been a big let down with Scott Westering (Frosty's son and the former Offensive coordinator) taking over.

[Foss]

Just got thumped by a better team yesterday. Not as many playmakers as in '00-'05, but then again some of those guys were the sort of players that don't come around very often. IMO, the '06 & '07 teams were definitely not as strong. In addition, Whitworth had two of its better teams in its history and knocked the 'Cats out of likely getting into the playoffs both years. This year's team is a bit more talented (and still very young), but is going to be left out of the dance again w/ two in-region losses, albeit to top 15 teams. PLU is more of a mystery. I thought they were finally getting back to normal after their 7-2 season last year, but that's definitely not the case and they are struggling.

[Foss]

By the way, I miss playing the Johnnies and Cobbers in the playoffs, even though we've come out on the short end most of the time.

[OzJohnnie]

I guess you just wanted to stumble around until you found someone to fight with.  As luck would have it...

To sum the argument against you: no one here disagrees (vehemently at least) with your positions on the team.  Your adolescent approach to the issues ("Hey!  I noticed something it must be the first time anyone has!") and childish need to take out your frustrations on the posters here (having already wrung the necks of all your neighborhood kittens, I suppose) is what I, at least, find particularly tiresome.

Have I insisted that everyone declare that I am right? No.  Have I advocated for the firing of the coaching staff?  No (and that is a particularly asinine presumption).  Did I say that the culture and tradition at SJU has collapsed?  No.  Did I indicate that I'm the only one who holds these views?  No. 

This, of course, is exactly the point.  You have advocated nothing.  You have railed.  You have gnashed.  You have rolled your eyes.  But you have offered nothing else.  Snooze.

Well, you do suggest that SJU adopt an unpretentious philosophy in their pre-game show, but even I doubt you intend that to be the cure for the ills that ail.  (It also may be a good idea if the administration avoid your counsel when trying to determine how to behave unpretentiously.)

Believe it or not, without differing opinions there is something that's very valuable that is lost.  It's called discourse.  If the expression of a different point of view that tends to assault a collective ivory tower equanimity generates some sort of animus against me, that's fine and it's all part of the process.  I've probably been disliked  by good people for inane reasons before.

Interesting.  Those that feel your approach is overbearing and unpleasant, not disagreeing with your points just the ugly way you promote them, are living in a "collective ivory tower" and are "inane."  Even you refer to your methods as an "assault."

I also suggest that the administration avoid your counsel when deciding on the appropriate way to teach students effective techniques in discourse.  Unless, of course, they are in need of a negative example.

My points are:

1.)  I believe there has been a diminution in the talent level at SJU over the past 3  years, particularly on the offensive line and, to a lesser degree, the defensive secondary.

2.)  SJU has probably lost and is probably losing many very good athletes because of its apparent "We're St. John's.  You come here if you come here" position which is being more keenly felt these days with more and more recruiting competition in the MIAC.

3.)  SJU is, in my opinion, doing some things that are exacerbating #2.  Namely, the pre-game glamor stuff (Does anyone really think that a kid from Fulda, MN is really going to be attracted to that sort of stuff.  Is any well-grounded kid who just wants to play football for the winningest college coach going to be impressed by it? I don't think so). 

4.)  In good years, maybe SJU should start putting in the 3rd, 4th, 5th strings in at the start or mid-way of the 3rd quarter to see who can do whatever so that the lean times are mitigated or do not come to pass.  In the most likely worst case scenario, you wind up winning a game by 20 instead of 45. 

So, if no one really disagrees with your points, what is it they disagree with?  The insights you present here as old in their obviousness as the season.  Let me hint: your approach.

Like it or not and whether it's true or not, there is a perceived "arrogance" about SJU that turns some kids away and that other MIAC coaches, no doubt, use quite deftly to their advantage.  To portray someone who dares express these possibilities as an uncharitable, unappreciative, puerile and dyspeptic gadfly only authenticates and verifies that it may not merely be a perception.  Kids go to schools for different reasons, it's true.  However, the attraction for St. John's is exactly because it has not been the hyper-glamor business for students and athletes.

Wow, what a practical lesson in projection.  SJU suffers from arrogance, yet it is you that rails against the description of being a "uncharitable, unappreciative, puerile and dyspeptic gadfly."  It goes without saying, of course, that you fail your silly quoting game from above as no one used these words.

SJU suffers from arrogance, yet you go after DuffMan with this: "Your Kool Aid avatar is apropos in that you must be punch drunk from drinking it."

SJU suffers from arrogance, yet you define those that disagree with your approach as believing "the appropriate mindset is to coddle, be shrouded in denial, make excuses, ignore the obvious and continue course unchanged."

You advocate discourse, yet when people respond to your charges you say, "That is not being "supportive" of a team; that is called being a sycophant."

You advocate for differing opinions, but those that disagree with your hamfisted declaration "SJU sucks" are, in your opinion, "blind-folded kisser{s} of maximum SJU butt."

It is painfully clear that you are man in love with your own voice (or type).  Many people refer to folks such as yourself as a "blowhard."  And you can quote me on that.