MBB: Midwest Conference

[schwanman]

Whew!

Tough one to lose for either team, and especially the Scots, who fall to 0-4 in the league (the last two in OT).

Some early observations:

Grotberg can take over a game much like Steve Wood could. He was very impressive.

Monmouth was very poor at the line (23-of-40). No excuses, you gotta knock 'em down, but it has to be tough to calm yourself down and regain your composure to shoot free throws after playing at that hectic pace. It's almost like Grinnell's style allows it to have a sort of built-in "free throw defense."

Not my style to complain about officiating, but an awful lot of touch fouls get missed in a Grinnell game. Their kids make some great hustle plays, tapping away balls from behind, but many times when they go for a steal, it isn't called, and play continues.

This isn't an original thought, but I wonder what would happen if someone played a zone vs. Grinnell? I know it seems bizarre to sit back in a zone against a three-point shooting team, but here a few areas where it would help the opponent:

1) It would take away a lot of Grinnell's isolation plays, where Grotberg or Arseneault penetrate (almost at will) and score from two feet.
2) It would negate the defensive confusion caused by bringing in five new men to guard at a time.
3) It might help with rebounding, as the defenders would all be packed in the lane after the shot went up.

Great to meet JeffP at the game! I look forward to your thoughts.

[polek2]

"So over Vraney's career at Ripon who were the other big time big men that he so amazingly coached?"

Scott Landish, Kieck, Liska, Vraney, Butrym....anyways he did a lot more then coach the bigs.  He never really had a player the liked playing with his back to the basket.  When you had guards like Glocke, Kohl, Becker its hard not to be.  But Schmitting just got good over night.

Ok I am done after this, except for two points based on basketball not personnel issues or problems with people just based on how they coach or play from my gathered knowledge.
1.  It is not a personnel issue or problem it is a basketball theory/scheme/knowledge issue.  Like I said before he is a good dude.  It is the issue if he did not have a good head coach in front of him he would be a poor coach in my opinion which is based on what I have seen and discussed with other players/people who witnessed Ripon basketball pre vraney and with vraney.  
2. "Big time Big men" ok, lets be real on the Big Time Big Men:  Landish was an great outside player, kieck good but nothing to special, liska good could have been great , Vraney huslter (not the magazine) a few spectacular but not much else, Butrym great player not a true "big man" though.  All great people.

So mwc4life it has been fun!  Go Redhawks! Booo Vikings! (LC and MN)

[gobucs]

Wow a barnburner at Beloit,  Lawrence was ripe for the pickin'  but we couldn't get it done.  The game was decided at the freethrow line, and BC had too many turnovers.  Chris Braier was the hero once again.  Gotta get two this weekend at home, should help to have Horton back-didn't play tonight with sprained knee.  I'll have a hard time sleeping tonight!

[Greek Tragedy]

Old School,
I think you underestimate Larry.

I'm having a hard time figuring out where you thought I under-estimated Larry U.

I said they were good and I thought they should've been ranked in the pre-season.  I know Braier is a machine.  They took Point to OT two years ago before Point went on to win the big one.  Last year, they had a tough game at Quandt.  I have them picked as my survivor team as the last team to go undefeated over in the Survivor League board.  I mentioned that they could run the table...

[scottie]

MWC4life: "Improbable comeback?"  Let's not get over-dramatic here...there were 14 ties in this game.  

Allow me to pat myself on the back a second for my prediction on Terwelp's Froebe-esque (patent pending) night, albeit in a loss:

## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN
24 Joe Terwelp......... *   18-21    0-0       2-4     3   9   12   4   38  4  4    0   0  38

JeffP: Hope you enjoyed the Huff Center, and I guess the game as well.  Sorry I missed you.  Give me a few days notice next time.  

[The Roop]

Thanks for the report gobucs. You answered my question about the Hortonless boxscore. Sounded like a tough one but that's ok, once we're back to full strength we'll get em when they come back to Beloit for the MWC Tournament.

[Maverick]

schwanman - You hit the nail square on the head with those observations.  1) Grotberg is basically the second coming of Steve Wood--can shoot from outside but seems like his game is taking the ball to the hoop and drawing contact (but he also does a good job using his arm that's off the dribble to create space between him and the man that's defending him, which I think should be an offensive foul but never really got called for it tonight).  2) MC was not good from the free throw line tonight and in the end it cost them a game that should've been a win.  3) It does sound like sour grapes, but oh well--I agree that in their press they do get away with some fouls that should be called and it just seems like the referees don't want to make a call everytime an opposing player gets fouled (which in their press happens quite often) and continually stop the game.  I didn't get to meet jeffp though--couldn't quite figure out who he was and where he was at over there in the Grinnell section. 

scottie - Good call on Terwelp, he really did have a good game tonight.

[titan2000]

Roop:

If we have to come to Beloit for the MWC tourney I will introduce you to my wife since you don't know her. 

I don't think you'll meet her. 

T2K

[systemfan86]

MWC4life: "Improbable comeback?"  Let's not get over-dramatic here...there were 14 ties in this game. 

Allow me to pat myself on the back a second for my prediction on Terwelp's Froebe-esque (patent pending) night, albeit in a loss:

## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN
24 Joe Terwelp......... *   18-21    0-0       2-4     3   9   12   4   38  4  4    0   0  38

JeffP: Hope you enjoyed the Huff Center, and I guess the game as well.  Sorry I missed you.  Give me a few days notice next time.   

I had the same question on the improbable comeback description. The Scots had a 5 point lead at half and made the lead as large as 14 (with 17 minutes left), but in a game with Grinnell, 14 points isn't a big lead for either team.

It looks like Grinnell never trailed in the OT.

I also see that Monmouth took 20 3pts shots (making eight). Jeffp has been telling us this isn't the System we're used to, so did Monmouth adjust by taking more 3's? (They clearly did a decent job shooting them).

Comparing Grotberg to Steve Wood is quite a compliment for the freshman. Those of us who are Grinnell fans hope he continues to get better. I know I'm excited about the Freshman and Sophmores on this team - and not just for the future. 

Good call on Terwelp, but I was hoping to see someone with a triple double and no one came close. Hebler also had a double-double with 16 pts and 13 assists.

A good win for Grinnell on the road. Now comes the biggest road test. I'm looking forward to the webcast to see Grotberg and Braier play.

[jeffdc]

ok, JeffP, wake up! Sure it's a long drive back, but GC fans are waiting for your astute blow by blow. Sounded like a heck of a game. 

[Early]

This isn't an original thought, but I wonder what would happen if someone played a zone vs. Grinnell? I know it seems bizarre to sit back in a zone against a three-point shooting team, but here a few areas where it would help the opponent:

Schwanman,
Ripon has played a zone against Grinnell.  Some games it worked to perfection, and other games it didn't.  It is a good idea, just depends really on the night Grinnell's shooters are having.  Rebounding is the biggest area the zone hurts you.  Sometimes you can't get to every player to box out on those long rebounds.

[hjmphelp]

OK, I'm awake since 4:30! We've been a bit busy this AM so this post is a bit piece-meal:
GC 128
MC 125 (1 OT)

Man what a game last night! More barns were burned than I thought possible! Posts from Maverick and Schwannman are right on the mark. As Mission Man said to me after the game, the MC players were so tired they hit the front of the rim more often than not. GC certainly put 'em at the line enough. Of course that is one of the long time strategies of system play-run 'em hard, wear 'em down and hope they start missing shots.

GC seems to still be a bit out of sorts after the holidays, but this group doesn't give up, they just try something else-and luckily, they have the tools to make adjustments.

Did i mention what a great game this was? 14 lead changes, numerous ties, a furious one minute GC comeback from 11 points down in the early mid 2nd half to take a lead, this game had a bit of everything. Outside of FT shooting, MC had a great offensive game plan and played some magnificent defense-especially on the inside. One thing I don't understand is why MC didn't take more 3 pt shots. I know that some GC players were worried about this enough that they expressed concern early in the week about how to contain the 3 pt shot.

I did say this was an amazing game, didn't I? I was particularly impressed with Beaird (as always-boy, is he gonna be missed) and others mentioned in earlier posts, but two unsung heros for MC had to be inside players Moore and Price. Moore stuffed Schmidt several times and appeared  to alter the shot making of others whenever he was in. Price had a great defensive game.

I hope you know you missed a fantastic game here. Did I mention that before? Grotberg is something special and seems to get better  with every game. the more he understands what is happening, the more he can totally dominate a game. Jr started to play well in the mid second half after a rough start. He lead a very effective small line last night and will be the key to many games in the future. Ticus and Kennedy continue to make great timely plays at needed intervals, and Nordlund just flat out knows what is expected of him and delivers any way he can. Mike Schmidt had his game altered last night but played well again. It is so good to see him become such a complete player. Bobby Long continues to amaze with his speed and quickness. Seems like everytime he makes a mistake (happening less and less now) he makes up for it immediately with some crazy ass defensive play that leaves GC fans with their collective mouths wide open. Just plain exciting to watch.

Gol durn this game was something! Just a bit about the facility, though. The new complex here at Monmouth is absolutely first rate. I was stunned by the new indoor track/tennis/basketball facility and the way Glennie was incorporated into the design. Grinnell hired Cesar Pelle, the world famous architect, got a great Facility as well, but lost Old Darby. Monmouth at least hired an Architect that knew how to design around an existing structure. Many kudos here.  It does look like they couldn't hide the thermostat from Coach A though!

Sorry i missed  you Maverick! I'll try to be more obvious next time. It was a great pleasure to meet Mission Man and Schwannman! Hard to find folks as nice as these two are. Hope to see both of you again soon. Oh, I almost forgot to mention what an exemplary MWC game this was. WoW!

[schwanman]

Systemfan86 -- I'd have to say Hebeler came pretty close to a triple-double ... he was just two rebounds shy (16 points, 13 assists, 8 rebounds). I'm sure he's bumming about his six missed free throws, but he was a big reason why the Scots were in good position to win the game.

And to be fair about the officiating ... Monmouth did benefit from some calls, too, including a foul on a breakaway late in overtime that probably should have been ruled continuation and a basket. Instead, the Grinnell hoop was waved off, one of the two free throws was missed, and the Scots got one last chance to tie the game.

[scottie]

JeffP, how did you really feel about the game? 

Glad you had a good trip. 

[scottie]

A few years ago, Monmouth was ranked among the leaders in the Nation all year long in FT %.   I guess it comes and goes...