MBB: Midwest Conference

[wnc52]

It's either right or it's wrong.  Conference affiliation shouldn't matter.

[The Roop]

Get to a game early and tell him what you think yourself. I like The System, I don't always like what it results in at times but I understand it better.

Still waiting on that book he promised me in Appleton a few years back. Maybe I'll email him my new address.

[scottie]

at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does

Since I can never say "No" to The Roop, I'll briefly come out of hibernation and chime in.  Yes, I do know who the team was that lost 152-76....curiously a year or two after scottie left campus.  Hmmmmm.....  But I can also point to the 63-60 win over GC in '99-00.  Would anyone like to discuss MC's 52-2 edge over GC from 1965-66 to 1992-1993?  (Record books are so interesting!)

The point here, however, is that the 152-76 win very likely was a TEAM victory by GC and the ultimate version of the system - NOT an individual showcase - with many double digit scores, equal distribution of playing time combined with a gazillion turnovers and terrible shooting by the Good Guys, etc.  It was record-like by fluke, not by intention. 

jeffdc: Here's a dare to Coach A and the Pios to try to set an individual record against a conference opponent.  (How about a Triple Dog Dare since we're close to Christmas Story reruns on TBS?)  It can't be done.  Even Knox has more than 9 players.  They've even got a few washing machines (Galesburg used to have a Maytag factory before the Mexico departure....).  And, without getting too descriptive, Knox has more fouls to give so I'm sure the incidental bruising on Taylors elbow would be getting pretty dark by halftime. (I'm not sure how many ice machines Knox has....) 

The articles about the Crossroads match-up made me sick.  I have two suggestions, the first sincere and the second wishful.  1.) Send a monetary gift to Crossroads.  Grinnell is one of the wealthiest schools in the country and could only come up with $1400?? Heck, somebody should donate an industrial washer & dryer.  Crossroads College, 920 Mayowood Road SW, Rochester MN 55902.  2.) And, I propose a challenge to see who are the most rabid fans in the MWC.  To qualify, simply organize "shifts" of fans, constantly rotate right behind the Grinnell bench every 45 seconds or so, and scream like hell non-stop through the game.  All shifts can unify during timeouts. 

Seacrest, Out!

[The Roop]

I'm not sure you can go straight to a triple dog dare scottie. There needs to be progression.

[scottie]

scottie only knows one speed.....   

[OBC]

Triple dog daring is not REAL daring. Real daring stops at the "double dare." Everyone knows that and real daring persons will never accept nor issue a TDD.

[cciwrabblerouser]

The problem would solve itself if potential opponents refused to play Grinnell.  The basketball program is forced to pay schools to sign a contract.  I think Crossroads did itself no favors by accepting the moolah and then getting thoroughly embarrassed.

I would also love for the administration at Grinnell to offer a definition of "sportsmanship" that is valid.

[Greek Tragedy]

at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does

My issue isn't the final score, it's how they got to that final score. Did Grinnell score 152 points by changing their system to accommodate ONE player in hopes of breaking a record?

[Mr. Ypsi]

at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does

My issue isn't the final score, it's how they got to that final score. Did Grinnell score 152 points by changing their system to accommodate ONE player in hopes of breaking a record?

This.

When Wilt scored his NBA record 100, the team did not pre-meditate that.  When he got to some very high number (there are no tapes of the game that I'm aware of, and don't know when the change occurred), everyone else stopped shooting and started feeding him the ball.  Very different. 

Grinnell on the other hand hired (D3 teams basically never pay teams except for expenses to attend tourneys) a team that could probably not win the intramural league at most schools to be the foil for a staged attempt at a personal record (that no one respects ).

Please understand, none of my posts are intended to demean Jack Taylor - he was just following coach's orders, and I've repeatedly said he is obviously a very good player that probably any team in D3 would be delighted to have.  It is the coach that I have utter contempt for.  (And, yeah before you say it, I doubt that keeps him awake at night! )

Grinnell apparently subscribes to the 'any publicity is good publicity' theory (since the vast majority of publicity has been negative).  I doubt that is a good strategy for a highly regarded academic school, but they didn't ask me.

[The Roop]

When Wilt scored 100 goal tending was still legal. So any shot that came close to the rim he touched/tapped in and got credit for the basket; many of which would have gone in on their own. That game caused the rule change.

[jeffp]

Grinnell 88
Wartburg 79

Wartburg totally overwhelmed Taylor tonight; 0-3; 0-5 (mostly forced shots), and 3-6 frees...for 3 points in 23 minutes.  Wartburg employed a stifling double team with a 3rd slider on every Taylor possession, proving that an extraordinary effort can shut him down. It also cost Wartburg the game.
Ist year Julian Marx had a Duck Soup evening coming out of nowhere to shoot 8-12 from the field, all 3 pointers plus 2-2 ft's for a total of 26. Pioneers played strong defense - once again showing the team is very quick handed. Passing was great (for the most part) in a typically paced GC game where 'burg forced more passes than usual. Yeager with 17 Maher with 15, the other 30 points evenly distributed. Some questions answered, others left to be pondered.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Grinnell 88
Wartburg 79

Wartburg totally overwhelmed Taylor tonight; 0-3; 0-5 (mostly forced shots), and 3-6 frees...for 3 points in 23 minutes.  Wartburg employed a stifling double team with a 3rd slider on every Taylor possession, proving that an extraordinary effort can shut him down. It also cost Wartburg the game.
Ist year Julian Marx had a Duck Soup evening coming out of nowhere to shoot 8-12 from the field, all 3 pointers plus 2-2 ft's for a total of 26. Pioneers played strong defense - once again showing the team is very quick handed. Passing was great (for the most part) in a typically paced GC game where 'burg forced more passes than usual. Yeager with 17 Maher with 15, the other 30 points evenly distributed. Some questions answered, others left to be pondered.

Congratulations on showing The System as it is supposed to go, and that you can win without 'pimping' Jack Taylor.

Do you have ANY conception of why MOST people think that the Crossroads (and Faith Baptist) games were total abominations!

[OBC]

Wartburg won the battle but lost the war.
The strong double and triple teams on Taylor and the strategy to foul him until reaching the bonus kept him from scoring, but it left open other players who may not have been able to create their shot under "normal" conditions. So Taylor doesn't score, but everyone else does; nice team victory.
Also, Wartburg did not want a high scoring game and they won that battle, too, by playing defense on offense. They ran a 4 corners hold 'em offense and refused open runs at the basket early in the shot clock. GC fans will remember Knox under coach Heimann used this strategy. How many times did Wartburg turn the ball over after 20 seconds on the shot clock? It cost them a chance at victory. Coach A pulled the press at what, 5 or 6 minutes to play and it took Wartburg half that time to figure out Grinnell was dropping back in a zone.
Finally, this was a team system victory. Lots of guys playing lots of minutes contributing like crazy. Oh, and one more thing. Can Julian Marx shoot the ball? You Bet Your Life.

[OBC]

By the way, Rick Reilly and crew from ESPN were at Darby gym tonight. They may not have gotten what they came for, but in my opinion they got something better.

[Mr. Ypsi]

By the way, Rick Reilly and crew from ESPN were at Darby gym tonight. They may not have gotten what they came for, but in my opinion they got something better.

Good to see. They came for 'The Circus', and saw an actual basketball game.  Something tells me it will never air on ESPN!