MBB: Midwest Conference

[Greek Tragedy]

Not that I care, but I've been reading a lot on this.  My dog is in the WIAC, so no dog in this fight.

BC did reach conference tourney in 2000-2001, but lost to grinnell in opening game.

Uh, really?

Since Youngblood has been at Beloit, they are the only team that hasn't made the conference tournament.

So, which one is it?  I saw that Ripon, St. Norb's and Beloit were all 9-7 that year, did Beloit have the tie-breaker for the 4th spot?

Youngblood has ONLY ONE season over .500 13-10 (2001-2002). That team should of reached the NCAA tournament. That is a year BC dropped the ball. Since then it's been down hill.

Should've reached the tourney?  Dropped the ball?  Didn't St. Norb's go 16-0 in the conference? And Ripon 11-5 with two other teams ahead of Beloit.  Hardly dropping the ball.

It is unexcusable to have the best player in the league and arguablt the school's history and not reach the conference tourney. 2-5 in the league does not look good right now.

All because you have the best player doesn't mean you're gonna win anything.  You have to have the best TEAM.  It helps if you have a great player on your team, but he does need a supporting cast. 

From the Beloit website:
Cecil Youngblood enters his seventh season at the helm of the Beloit men's basketball team. Since he has taken over as head coach, the Bucs have noticeably improved each year.

Neither the school's website or the conference website goes back that far, this shows 6 of his 7 years.

2000-2001 10-12, 9-7 6th
2001-2002 13-10, 8-8 5th
2002-2003 10-13, 8-8 6th
2003-2004 4-19, 3-13 10th
2004-2005 8-15, 5-11 9th
2005-2006 6-8, 2-5 6th

[Early]

Wouldn't you want the best "player" in the conference to be a leader?  A leader is one who does it ALL.  When has Hintz ever been talked about for anything but scoring?  "The Bopper" is everywhere on the court.  I've seen Hintz play and defense is suspect at best.

[larry_u]

Congrats to my Vikes for achieving more MWC history.  They are the first school to garner a first place vote in the d3hoops.com poll, and now the highest ranking ever of a MWC team and the highest in school history at 3rd overall.  

Thats a major endorsement for John Tharp and the LU philsophy of basketball.  Their system works.  Tharp is having an amazing year with the Vikings, and former LU coach Pat Juckem is having a good year with Coe too, only one in conference loss to Wartburg on a three pointer at the buzzer.  Not bad for LU basketball.

[systemfan86]

SF86-
So what were the other main issues with Raveling?

Iowa had never been close to the Final Four before Olson got here, and he left immediately following that appearance. Then Raveling was supposed to magically duplicate that performance IMMEDIATELY!
Why was Raveling considered an odd personality? Was it based on things like Sweats, 1 minute soundbites in the press, and distortion of everything that happened under his watch including his health problems which some even accused him of manufacturing?

You are certainly right that Race wasn't the only issue, but it was THE overriding issue from the beginning, in my opinion. Davis took 'em to the tourney consistently, but never got them to the same level they achieved that first year. He lasted a long time without pressure and wasn't questioned until late in his iowa career.

Covert Racism is hard to pin down, and as white folks in a very white state, we aren't  really aware of the insidious nature of racism including statements that I would be so bold as to classify 'so-called' innocent remarks. We shrug them off because they don't affect us. Until you get the chance to experience racism first hand and on a regular basis, it is hard to grasp.

In my opinion, Raveling was a great coach who was never given a fair chance.

I whole heartedly agree that convert racism is hard to pin down. It is (IMHO) a matter of intellectual laziness; we all generalize about people based on the easiest thing to see. In many cases, that is race, but in other times it is gender, or religion, or any number of easy-to-identify characteristics. We (collectively) don't want to do the work necessary to look deeper.

I think you identified the other biggest strike against Raveling - he wasn't Lute Olsen. Whatever coach followed him was not going to measure up. Personality wise, Raveling was the opposite of Olsen, and that did work against him. Given that he was only given 3 years, it's fair to say he didn't get a fair shake, but the fact that he had an overall losing record in the Big Ten during his stay didn't help quite the critics.

I don't think he was a great coach. I think the fact that he had only fair success after leaving Iowa  (2 games under .500 at USC) indicates that he was a good/decent coach, but not a great one. I'm not sure Tom Davis was any better and he did get a longer stay, but he also had more success; btw Davis's actually had a better winning percentage than Olsen did at Iowa).

I think a better example of what you're trying to say may be that Steve Alford has been given more time than Raveling and has a worse record.

[jeffdc]

Best of luck to GC tonight on their road game with KC!

And Knox fans, JeffP is the old(er) guy with the pony tail and the maniacal gleam in his eyes each time GC nails a 3! 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

And Knox fans, JeffP is the old(er) guy with the pony tail and the maniacal gleam in his eyes each time GC nails a 3! 

Maniacal gleam--great description, did someone get a MWC education?

[scottie]

Not that I care, but I've been reading a lot on this.  My dog is in the WIAC, so no dog in this fight.

BC did reach conference tourney in 2000-2001, but lost to grinnell in opening game.

Uh, really?

Since Youngblood has been at Beloit, they are the only team that hasn't made the conference tournament.

So, which one is it?  I saw that Ripon, St. Norb's and Beloit were all 9-7 that year, did Beloit have the tie-breaker for the 4th spot?

That was a crazy year in the MWC.  Monmouth finished 8-8 that year, one game behind Beloit, Ripon and SNC.  Toward the end of that season, Beloit beat MC at MC by one point.  Had Monmouth won that game and finished 9-7, I believe they would have won the tie breaker over the other schools.  As it turns out, I think Henry Grant and the Bucs DID make the MWC playoffs.

[hjmphelp]

SF86-
by the time Raveling got to USC health WAS a major factor-my understanding anyway. He was given 3 years and an empty cupboard. Gone were the twin towers, Ronnie Lester, Gannon and the likes. Lute left NOTHING for him to work with! It took him 3 years to come up with a solid team and then Davis got to reap the rewards.

Don't EVEN get me started about Alford. I learned to dislike him when he was in the MVC. My daughter (not 'that girl', the other one ) led the Drake U pep band for 3 years and would talk about his arrogance and such. Another story about how a coach inherits tremendous recruits, wins the MVC with them, bolts for Iowa and leaves the cupboard dry. His team went from 1st to worst in in the MVC in one year. His problem at Iowa is a bit different. He seems to recruit well, but can't get wins with any consistancy. He HAS been under the gun for several years now, and if his teams keep getting shellacked every other game  I think he will be gone. I too am surprised it has taken Iowa 7 years to deliver the ultimatum (make the sweet sixteen, or else).

[d3bbfan]

"In youngbloods defense it has not helped to have a rotating coaching staff. B. Mercado, Johnny V. , Todd K. Give me a break. I guess if you you let jokes coach your players you have to expect your team to be the same."

Todd Kjell has been with Youngblood for 6 yrs now. the other names you mentioned i believe were student assistants. This is the first year there have been 2 actual assistants now that BC has Whitey Gilbertson. Whitey is a very expereinced coach with a Wis state champoinship. He is well recognized around the state of Wis as having been one the best girls high school coaches in the state.

Hinz's defense has greatly improved this yr. and so has his rebounding. Towns and Fiek have been a disapointment. Fiek is such a hard worker and defender but he just cant seem to get his shot going. Towns is a liability on def when ever he's on the floor. Hendry who was suppose to have a break out yr is up and down. great one game and non existant the other. I did not make to the BC-CC game but i saw that the freshman big kid Horton got the start. Hinz had 30 and 17 in that game.....he has stepped it up...i think tis time for the other upperclassman to do the same.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I got to meet Alford last summer.  He did a charity golf tournament for the non-profit I work for.  He definately came off looking very smug and self-confident.  He certainly didn't (in his talk and actions) seem like he had the work ethic it takes to win in big college ball.  He was gung ho about talking game strategy and plays, talent, etc.  But he didn't seem to care about the kinds of things that coaches are responsbile for, making players better, schemes, etc.  I'm not sure the truly gifted players understand what it takes for the average athlete.  Like Barry Bonds always says "I can't help you with your hitting because I was born with a gift.  I can't explain it, I just do it."  For some people its true.  Besides, any guy who becomes life-long friends with Bobby Knight after playing for him has a few screws loose, in my opinion.

[hjmphelp]

Jeez, dc!
You just ID'd me for the thousands of Knox fans who post here! Are you trying to get me killed? Mission Man has met me and even though the elderly recent Knox grad and current Monmouth newspaper reporter won't be there at least he didn't give me up!!

Yeah, Hoops Fan, dc is a Grinnell Grad too. He is the older guy with the maniacal grin and pony tail. He is taking my place tonight.

BTW, look forward to meeting you this weekend. I hope  Grinnell and Larry can put on a good show for you!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yeah, Hoops Fan, dc is a Grinnell Grad too. He is the older guy with the maniacal grin and pony tail. He is taking my place tonight.

Um, I'm not sure the Knox fans care who the maniacal guy is, they are still going to kill you.

BTW, look forward to meeting you this weekend. I hope  Grinnell and Larry can put on a good show for you!

They better do it right.  I voted for Larry #1 on my PP ballot this week and I'm planning on voting for GC if they can sweep the homestand this weekend.

[systemfan86]

Big game tonight for GC. While it's not a "must win", it could be very important. This has to be one of the toughest weeks for any team in the MWC this year. Play the fourth place conference team on the road, then host the second place team (who happens to be ranked #25 in the country), then turn around  the next day and host the top conference team (and #3 inthe country). Yikes.

They (GC) needs to win one of those, and ideally wins two. I'm not even going to wish for all three - but like the Steelers fan that I am, I'll really enjoy winning all three if it happens.  

BTW, Carroll's schedule of playing at Grinnell at 7:00 PM Friday and then playing in Jacksonville at 3:00 PM the next day is no picnic either!

[jeffdc]

Jeez, dc!
You just ID'd me for the thousands of Knox fans who post here! Are you trying to get me killed? Mission Man has met me and even though the elderly recent Knox grad and current Monmouth newspaper reporter won't be there at least he didn't give me up!!

Jeffp, You can run but you can't hide. Besides, there are hundreds of older guys with pony tails out there, right? Especially in Galesburg. 

Sys86, it'll be GC triumphant against KC, GC triumphant against CC, and GC the upsetters against LU. These guys have something to prove, believe me, and I suspect they're still a little annoyed about the loss on LU's home turf.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

BTW, Carroll's schedule of playing at Grinnell at 7:00 PM Friday and then playing in Jacksonville at 3:00 PM the next day is no picnic either!

You forgot to mention hosting Ripon tonight.  They are more of a challenge than people think.