MBB: Midwest Conference

[hjmphelp]

augie-superfan

Yeah we know, but that kite won't  fly here. As I said earlier, I do have an opportunity to see games at several levels. Nothing I see elsewhere compares to the incompetency in the MWC, whether the same oafs behave in your conference or not.

I do know of one official who routinely does MVC (D1) games. He is the best at it that i know of. There are some crews that are better than others, but there are too many doing MWC games who have axes to grind or who are out of shape or just plain lousy. it is getting to the point where-in some games and situations-player safety is in question.

I'm happy for you if they do alright in your league. Hmm...maybe we have higher standards for officiating here. I know we deserve better!

[schwanman]

Old School: I have definitely heard that MSOE is interested in joining the MWC, although their lack of football would present a problem, I'm guessing. Another school I've heard is Clarke. It seems a change is coming, but I don't know if it will involve subtraction AND addition, or just addition.

Old Fighting Scot: Yes, Price's minutes are up, but he's doing more to earn those minutes. Taking the ball hard to the hole, etc. There are still some parts of his game he can elevate, and when he does, he'll be Schmitting-esque and might even score like Henry Grant.

Scottie: Whatd'ya think ...

Give him the damn ball
Success comes with a big Price
Scots in '07!

[scottie]

D. Price to H. Grant?
That's quite a comparison.
'02 P.O.Y.

[fightingscots13]

Can't a guy just pi** and moan about his team in private??  

I know it'll be hard for some to grasp this concept (as evidenced by the # of posts...), but the schedule hasn't allowed for much free time posting lately.  I didn't even get to see the Scots play last night.

...to add to the stripes discussion, complaining about it is like whizzin' into the wind.  Just accept that it's not going to be great and move on.

[augie_superfan]

I don't know if the CCIW gets better refs or not.  There are definitely times when they do a bad job but that happens.  One question...do most of the complaints come from a game involving Grinnell or does the MWC have bad refs a lot no matter who is playing.  I would imagine it to be tough to ref a Grinnell game as compared to a regular game.  Looking at the names of the refs in last night's box score.  I know 2 of the 3 have reffed in the CCIW before although I'm not sure how they were.  Also, both of those guys have been doing some D2 games with one guys name popping up a lot in games like SIU-E, Lewis, etc.   You can do a nice google search with the refs' names to see what other box scores they pop up it...kinda interesting because that must tell you how they are evaluated by whomever does the ref scheduling (AD's, conferences, etc.)

[scottie]

Can't a guy just pi** and moan about his team in private??  

I know it'll be hard for some to grasp this concept (as evidenced by the # of posts...), but the schedule hasn't allowed for much free time posting lately.  I didn't even get to see the Scots play last night.

...to add to the stripes discussion, complaining about it is like whizzin' into the wind.  Just accept that it's not going to be great and move on.

Good morning, Sunshine.   8)

[hjmphelp]

augie- thanks for the headsup on that google search. I think in the early days of system ball the complaints did revolve more around Grinnell Games. Still does for those of us who follow Grinnell
Now the complaints seem to be more universal.

fs13-
we CAN make a difference! I know because I have done it! You just have to reach the right people and make a strong, honest case and they will listen.

Schwannman-
I totally agree about Price. He had a great game against Grinnel at your place. Why is his playing time limited, do you know?

[The Roop]

Yes, we all know how Grinnell fans make a difference. In my 24 hours there I saw more Emery trucks around campus than I did in the entire year that I lived next to the Universty of Kentucky. 

[fightingscots13]

jp - if I or anyone else complained to the Commish every time we saw a bad ref, there wouldn't be any left after the first weekend of conference ball.  I'm not trying to disagree with you - yes, something should be done - but I see that as a losing battle in the end.

Just ask Gillespie or Glasgow - they've witnessed bad calls for 30+ years...

Another direction to go:  If a coach teaches his players the right way to play defense, move their feet, don't reach, set good screens, block out, etc., then the complaints should be minimal.  That's ideal, I know, but something to strive for.

[Old Fighting Scot]

-Schwannman

its hard to take the ball hard to the whole when you are sitting next to "the bicep." 

-Scottie

dont get me wrong, not saying price is going to be or should be P.O.Y, just saying the pieces to the engine are there, just need to be put together and DRIVEN.

-fs13
busy... haha surely you are not THAT busy this time of year.  i mean you gotta be looking forward to the next "few" saturdays...

[schwanman]

jeffp -- I think you saw Price's last low-minute game. He's been at 27 or more every game since.

Obviously, comparisons to a former POY aren't fair -- after all, POY is an honor that only goes to one of the league's 50 starters each year. The point is, though, that he can dominate a game like Grant could IF he brings an intensity and desire each night and fine tunes some of the things he needs to work on ... like the defensive attributes FS13 just brought up.

Hey, speaking of POY, is it Braier, hands down? Are Drury, Grotberg, Hinz or Maclin in the discussion?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

One question...do most of the complaints come from a game involving Grinnell or does the MWC have bad refs a lot no matter who is playing.

I think that was addressed in an earlier post.  I believe that it is conference-wide.  I would not have entered a discussion about officials if it was just one team.  In fact, if the GC posters believe their players get more bad calls than other teams, they are probably right.  The sheer number of plays they are involved in or have an opportunity to foul is so great, it would be hard for other teams to match them.

[LU_nut]

schwannman............................in my opinion, nope.  Only one logical choice.

[Old Fighting Scot]

hate to do it but.....

POY and MVP are two different things.  POY is generally a statistical monicer (sp?).  I would say in the POY race you could name a few maclin, hinz, grotberg, schmitting, drury, etc...

but if you are talking MVP, then you gotta go to the most "complete" player on the best team, the guy that does it all for the 3rd ranked team in the country.....  Braier is hands down the MVP but POY that remains to be seen....

As far as the official discussion goes.  Guys really, I assume that most of you all in here have watched a lot of bball games.  I will also assume that most of you have complained about a bad call or two (and b/c of instant replay) we have all been witnessed to some absolutely terrible calls, at all levels of play and in all sports. Bottomline, I have never left a game or finished watching a game and said "u know what, those oafs were great." but i have left and watched plenty of games where the oafs were awful.  Referrees everywhere generally suck.  maybe they are overpaid maybe they arent evaluated often enough, but generally oafs are terrible at every level in every league.  i think one of the biggest tragedies in sports is the technical foul on coaches in basketball.  Name another sport where the coach and team can be penalized for disagreeing with a decision that could cause his team to lose.  not in the NFL (have u ever read a coaches lips on the sidelines after a pass interference call), not in hockey.  coaches in baseball can be tossed but the "team" isnt penalized i.e. extra runs or outs.  Only in basketball do refs have this power, maybe that is why they are all so terrible....

[jeffdc]

is there any sort of random 'audit' in place for these refs? For example, at least once a year, someone will audit a videotape of one of the ref's games, comparing what happened to calls made. It would be a way of actually tying data to perception. Just curious if anyone knows?